[Suggestion] Putting drogue chutes earlier in the tech tree

[Tatonf]

Ok, the problem isn't new, but 1.0.5 made it worse than before.

At the begining of the career, you are often asked to do sub-orbital things, but need to go up to space.

The problem is, we're falling far too quickly, even with the simple Mk1 pod and mk-16 chute.

And there's no real solution, except... Doing something closer to making an orbit than a sub-orbital flight, so you burn up longer in the atmosphere.

It's quite weird for me. And I'm an "experienced" player. I see a lot of topics in the Gameplays Questions forum about this particular problem.

I think that a simple solution to this problem would be to bring the drogue chutes much more earlier in the tech tree. That would make them usefull, because for the moment, they're almost useless (except for Duna).

What do you think ?

[Rakaydos]

I've been wanting this as well. I've been having to reserve fuel for a hypersonic breaking burn, to be sure of being able to get chutes safely open.

[mikegarrison]

Yeah, it's now really edgy to do a sub-orbital flight. And even orbital flights get a little dicey if you have a relatively heavy payload in a Mk.1 size.

For example, an obvious choice for tourism at early tech levels is a spacecraft with a Mk1 command pod on top of a Mk1 crew cabin. Two tourists, yeah! But trying to re-enter that sucker is tough. It just doesn't slow down much, and the chutes don't get safe until 4km, 3km, sometimes 2km. You can hit the ground by then if you are in the highlands! And even over the ocean, that's a bit nerve-wracking.

Drogue chutes would help a lot.

[Terwin]

When flying 1.25m craft, I would have them tumble so as to keep as much surface as possible in the air-flow. This was usually able to save craft for which I did not save enough fuel for a retro-burn( or at the very least slow me down enough that my remaining fuel would get me slow enough for chutes).

Now that I have drogue chutes unlocked, atmospheric braking burns are much more optional.

I thought the current placement of Drogue chutes high enough that you need to solve the deceleration problem first was deliberate, that way you appreciate their value once you get them.

[MrOsterman]

[quote name='Terwin']When flying 1.25m craft, I would have them tumble so as to keep as much surface as possible in the air-flow. This was usually able to save craft for which I did not save enough fuel for a retro-burn( or at the very least slow me down enough that my remaining fuel would get me slow enough for chutes).

Now that I have drogue chutes unlocked, atmospheric braking burns are much more optional.

I thought the current placement of Drogue chutes high enough that you need to solve the deceleration problem first was deliberate, that way you appreciate their value once you get them.[/QUOTE]

So... at what point do you ask if someone appreciates their air bag, before or after their accident?

:/

[Pecan]

So far I have not had a problem with re-entry. Bringing the drogues to the front of the tech tree would just encourage bad design (which might be fair enough, since they're essentially 'bad chutes' ^^).

Consider :-
Without drogues your sub-orbital needs to become wider and shallower ... leading naturally to a proper gravity turn and getting to orbit.
With drogues you'll just go straight up and straight back down again ... leading nowhere.

Without drogues your de-orbit periapsis needs to be relatively high so you slow as much as possible high up ... leading naturally to aerobraking on return from lunar/interplanetary journeys.
With drogues you just go straight down ... leading nowhere.

Obviously I exaggerate, but I hope you see the point.

So - design considerations:
* 3 stacks create more drag than one, slowing you down more. Instead of a single needle try a wider design (tall good, fat bad only applies to one-way trips!).
* 3 stacks with a top bias may flip on the way up, whereas with a bottom bias it may flip on the way down (assuming retrograde re-entry). Try one that lands upside down.
* SSTO spaceplanes, let alone sub-orbital ones, are available as soon as you get wheels - try not even using parachutes at all!
* At tech-3, before wheels, use aircraft wing/control surfaces to fly near the runway (or at least KSC) while braking, then pop the chutes just to settle onto the ground.
* Try anything else you can think of - it's a design challenge and that's part of the fun of KSP!
* Do more science early and concentrate on getting the parts you need quickly, you don't need to take every contract, or only do contract flights. Edited November 17, 2015 by Pecan

[HyperbolicKerbonaut]

I'd also like to see drogue chutes earlier. (I'd really like to see the whole tech tree redone, because it's a nonsensical, grind-provoking mess, but I guess there's a mod for that...) Another solution for earlier career might be to postpone getting into orbit and instead tipping more and earlier and aiming for a lower apoapsis.

[justidutch]

I did have a couple mishaps myself doing suborbital flights when I started a new career with 1.05. But I'm with Pecan, learning a flight profile that can handle your ship's characteristics is much more useful than taking the easy road. I now have no fear at all with my ships when re-entering orbit, due to the lessons learned on the beginning flights.

[Vanamonde]

This suggestion has been moved to Suggestions.

[fireblade274]

I dont mind them being in a later tech, and I wouldnt mind having them earlier, but it would be nice if they could be opened while going a bit faster. standard parachutes are fine they way they are