AERION AS2 Business Jet

[justidutch]

I saw an article on a news site regarding a supersonic business jet. All it takes is $120 million of your cash. Easy peasy. It sure looks cool though!

If one was to believe the info on their website…

[quote]
Since its founding in 2002, Aerion has invested more than $100 million in R&D, much of it in conjunction with NASA and other prominent aerospace research organizations, to develop concepts for a family of efficient supersonic jets. Over that time, it has developed, flown and proven supersonic natural laminar flow airfoils that reduce wing friction drag by as much as 80 percent, and overall airframe drag by as much as 20 percent.
[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.aerionsupersonic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/technical-specs-image1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.aerionsupersonic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Technology-Overview.jpg[/IMG]

Their website: [URL="http://www.aerionsupersonic.com"]http://www.aerionsupersonic.com[/URL]

I'm not an engineer, nor have knowledge of technical details, but am curious to hear what some of you think. I do love the look of it!

[Jovus]

Not gonna happen. It's even less economically feasible now than it was the first time.

[justidutch]

The article I read mentioned that they just received their first order for 10 of these things, priced at $120 million US each.

[InterCity]

I don't think it will be successful. True, it's the way forward and true, it's awesome but let's face it: Even those globally-commuting managers whose time is [I]expensive[/I] would probably spend more for fuel then he/she would save in cash for time. If I was such businessman, I'd definitely buy Canadair/Bombardier Global Express or Cessna Citation X (If I wasn't Bombardier-rich). I'd get where I need for less cash.

EDIT: $120 000 000 for one? The subsonic/transsonic luxurious jets cost about $25 000 000 now... Edited November 19, 2015 by InterCity

[shynung]

The reason rich people (or corporations) buy private jets is to avoid the long check-in and waiting time associated with scheduled airlines. Usually, we'd spent about 1-2 hours waiting in the terminals before we even get into the planes, but private jet owners can board their planes almost as soon as they arrived at the airport.

[WestAir]

Expensive lawn dart.

I don't think I've ever seen an aircraft where less than two thirds the fuselage was actually dedicated to cabin space and useful loading. I'd tell you it'll never happen and that this article is a pipe dream, but I would have said the same thing about a bunch of entrepreneurs taking the Concorde out of a museum and flying it to airshows. I'm hesitant to put my foot in my mouth again, but if you're a betting man bet against this. It's economically unfeasible and one thing about rich people is that they didn't get rich by spending it unfeasibly. If this were from Boeing or Airbus with lots of media coverage and millions and advertisement already spent I might believe it - but not from an unheard from brand founded in 2002.

[Wjolcz]

The wings look very similar to what some people create with B9 pWings.

[fredinno]

I wonder if supersonic commercial aricraft will ever become viable.

[SargeRho]

[quote name='WestAir']Expensive lawn dart.

I don't think I've ever seen an aircraft where less than two thirds the fuselage was actually dedicated to cabin space and useful loading. I'd tell you it'll never happen and that this article is a pipe dream, but I would have said the same thing about a bunch of entrepreneurs taking the Concorde out of a museum and flying it to airshows. I'm hesitant to put my foot in my mouth again, but if you're a betting man bet against this. It's economically unfeasible and one thing about rich people is that they didn't get rich by spending it unfeasibly. If this were from Boeing or Airbus with lots of media coverage and millions and advertisement already spent I might believe it - but not from an unheard from brand founded in 2002.[/QUOTE]

Yet, they already have at least 20 orders. The main incentive for business jets, as already said above, is to get around faster. Flexjet have placed a 2.4 billion dollar order for 20 of these, expecting delivery to begin in 2023. So, evidently, the incentive of a mach 1.2 plane is great enough to pay 120 million a piece.

[WestAir]

[quote name='SargeRho']Yet, they already have at least 20 orders. The main incentive for business jets, as already said above, is to get around faster. Flexjet have placed a 2.4 billion dollar order for 20 of these, expecting delivery to begin in 2023. So, evidently, the incentive of a mach 1.2 plane is great enough to pay 120 million a piece.[/QUOTE]

You're right. That's the exact reason I cannot (and did not) completely dismiss this project's future. Hopefully it works out for them and they overcome all of the economic and legal hurdles that make supersonic passenger flight so difficult to perform and sustain. I don't think they will, but I've been wrong [I]many[/I] times before.

[WestAir]

[quote name='llanthas']You're so cute. I'll just refer you to the movie Wolf of Wall Street, and remind you that the only unusual thing about the character is that he got caught.[/QUOTE]

Your response to my statement is to tell me that a Terence Winter [I]Comedy[/I] is evidence that I am wrong, and that you can also generalize an entire group of people based only on their wealth? Surely you can't be serious.

[Kryten]

[quote name='fredinno']I wonder if supersonic commercial aricraft will ever become viable.[/QUOTE]
If they ever will be it'll be in this kind of segment, but it's hard to see much of a market when supersonic travel over land is still banned in most countries.

[Findthepin1]

I think it's not worth the effort. It's much cheaper to get a regular jet. This thing, the only benefit is that it's fast. That argument, to make faster things, breaks down eventually. Such as the Internet. If they're smart, people aren't going to pay twice the cost for a 5-millisecond/mb Internet signal if they have a 20-millisecond/mb signal already. It's not worth the cost for an extra 0.015 seconds saved. If the brain can even notice the difference.

[More Boosters]

Well all I have to add is that if I were rich as sin and looking to flaunt it, I'd rather get a supersonic business jet than a collection of overpriced art.

Yeah yeah I know money laundering and all but you can't say [b]all[/b] of art trade is money laundering.

[Kryten]

[quote name='WestAir']It's economically unfeasible and one thing about rich people is that they didn't get rich by spending it unfeasibly.[/QUOTE]
Buying a Boeing 747 as a personal transport is going to be just about as unfeasible, you're probably looking at not much better processing times than a normal flight. There are still no less than 12 of those, at something like 3* the price of this thing.

[WestAir]

[quote name='Kryten']Buying a Boeing 747 as a personal transport is going to be just about as unfeasible, you're probably looking at not much better processing times than a normal flight. There are still no less than 12 of those, at something like 3* the price of this thing.[/QUOTE]

That's an excellent point. I'd imagine most of those owners are UAE Royalty, but I guess that wouldn't make me any less wrong.

[sojourner]

[quote name='WestAir']this were from Boeing or Airbus with lots of media coverage and millions and advertisement already spent I might believe it - but not from an unheard from brand founded in 2002.[/QUOTE]

SpaceX - founded in 2002.

[WestAir]

[quote name='sojourner']SpaceX - founded in 2002.[/QUOTE]

I said unheard of. It's right in the quote you included. Anyone off the street has heard about SpaceX.

[sojourner]

"unheard of" is relative.

[wumpus]

[quote name='Jovus']Not gonna happen. It's even less economically feasible now than it was the first time.[/QUOTE]

That implies that ~20 passengers now don't have as much money as ~100 passengers of the 1960s-1990s. A completely unbelievable idea. Look at the market for yachts. While they lose to yachts by the complete failure of being practical, they win by being very, very, fast and very, very, expensive.

Actually, what boggles my mind is that the rich haven't abandoned fancy cars en masse and moved to aircraft. Probably too much trouble to learn to fly.

[Stargate525]

[quote name='wumpus']Actually, what boggles my mind is that the rich haven't abandoned fancy cars en masse and moved to aircraft. Probably too much trouble to learn to fly.[/QUOTE]
It's also difficult to fly a plane from downtown to your office. ;)

[wizzlebippi]

There are a few misconceptions here

1. For a rich owner/pilot, you're generally looking at small 4-8 passenger jets upwards of about $10m. Beyond that, they either don't care enough to fly it and can afford to hire a pilot, or the aircraft is corporate owned.

2. Rich people are by far in the minority for aircraft owners. The vast majority are owned by companies like Netjets who rent them out complete with pilots. In fact, Aerion's major customer is flexjet, and they're likely only interested because it's faster over the ocean. In all likelihood they'll fly their passengers to and from the Aerion jet in a more conventional Cessna or Leerjet.

3. For the feasibility of it, anything's possible if you throw enough time and money at it. They already have customers, and no one else is trying to make anything like it. Aerion could prove to be disruptive to the business jet market.

[prophet_01]

I work for/with a number of individuals that travel a lot as it's their job to maintain and expand relationships with different govermental organisations across the globe. If they were allowed to do so, they would most certainly want to fly with this instead of regular planes.
The additional time spend in a tegular plane might not be that significant, but an hour or two less can make all the difference between being able to work the same day or just feeling horrible and wanting to stay in the hotel. They often fly business class, usually even first class for that exact reason and everytime I see how much more that costs our goverment I'm pretty amazedthat they get through with that.
But even with first class, planes aren't such a comfortable place and quite a lot of people can neither sleep nor relax during a flight. An hour or two less when going transatlantic would help to get jobs done more effectively and quicker.

Spending a night in a hotel to recover after a flight isn't cheap either, especially in places like NY, and if you were able to start working as soon as you leave the plane, cause you don't feel like trash, that's when you actually have a benefit.

It's down to the costs either way. But I'm pretty sure there is a market for this kind of thing that's not focused on the super rich, but business instead. Edited November 20, 2015 by prophet_01

[magnemoe]

[quote name='wizzlebippi']There are a few misconceptions here

1. For a rich owner/pilot, you're generally looking at small 4-8 passenger jets upwards of about $10m. Beyond that, they either don't care enough to fly it and can afford to hire a pilot, or the aircraft is corporate owned.

2. Rich people are by far in the minority for aircraft owners. The vast majority are owned by companies like Netjets who rent them out complete with pilots. In fact, Aerion's major customer is flexjet, and they're likely only interested because it's faster over the ocean. In all likelihood they'll fly their passengers to and from the Aerion jet in a more conventional Cessna or Leerjet.

3. For the feasibility of it, anything's possible if you throw enough time and money at it. They already have customers, and no one else is trying to make anything like it. Aerion could prove to be disruptive to the business jet market.[/QUOTE]
1 is true, if you want to fly it yourself you want an small plane.
2 I know rental is the far larges customer for cooperate jets but surprised me a bit that this supersonic was of interest for rental, though the larges marked was ultra rich wanted cool stuff.

[justidutch]

It turns out there is a SSTO version too!!
[IMG]http://jscript.ca/ksp-images/Aerion/Screen%20Shot%202015-11-21%20at%2012.29.10%20AM.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://jscript.ca/ksp-images/Aerion/Screen%20Shot%202015-11-21%20at%2012.29.17%20AM.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://jscript.ca/ksp-images/Aerion/Screen%20Shot%202015-11-21%20at%2012.29.24%20AM.png[/IMG]

[URL="http://jscript.ca/ksp-images/Aerion/Aerion%20AS4.zip"]Craft file here[/URL]