[Development] E4 Jet Propulsions Laboratory (Create Your own Engines!)

[ensou04]

[SIZE=5][B]E4 Jet Propulsions Laboratory[/B][/SIZE][HR][/HR][B]E4JPL[/B] is a part mod that allows you to design/create your own engines in-game. How you design your engines affects its performance.

Right now, its on its discussion stage. I still haven't figured out how the Game Mechanic of this mod will be.
But basically this is what I aim to do at its core:
[SIZE=4][B]
Core Mechanics:[/B][/SIZE]
[LIST=1]
[*]Be able to design engines with different engine cycles for example: Pressure Fed Cycle, those Helium resource will come in handy.
[*]Select specific parts and materials for your engine, Nozzles, Thrust Chambers, pipes etc. and have it reflect the overall Look and Performance.
[*]Engine parts are unlocked through the Tech Tree, so no high tech Stage Combustion Cycle engines at start, bare with Pressure Fed Cycles first.
[*]Engines will be created with 3 or 4 Bases that corresponds to known Radial Sizes (0.625m - 5m/7m)
[*]Be able to create[B] Engine Clusters[/B] more freely without the sacrifice of increasing Vessel Parts, (all [B]E4JPL [/B]engines are considered as one part)
[*]Create engines that requires different types of Fuel available using [B]Community Resource Pack [/B]and probably compatibility with [B]RealFuels[/B]
[/LIST]

[B][SIZE=4]Modding Stuff To do:[/SIZE]
[/B]
[LIST=1]
[*]write a plugin that allows in-game changing of Thrust and Isp values,
[*]Part and sub-part Assets for the engines
[*]Creation of a solid game mechanic
[*]UI and load/save system
[/LIST]
[B]

[SIZE=4]What you could do to help in Development:[/SIZE]
[/B]As of now, as I said, the entire game mechanic is still not solid. I don't really aim to make it so that it reflects real life engineering. but more of how it feels like to design your rockets in game, but with engines. So If you are willing to help deciding how this Mod will go just tell me! As for 3D models and Textures, I could do that myself but the more the merrier, this mod will require different sub-parts to be design so a hand of help will be appreciated. I will be able to handle the main plugin to drive this mod just fine, but if you have ideas for it, you are more than welcome to contribute.
[B]
Pics will be posted once we finally have something worth to show :)


[/B] Edited November 26, 2015 by ensou04

[Fatal_Gam3er]

Cool, this is something i would download in a heartbeat: too bad i don't know how to model or texture. ;-;

[Gaarst]

This is a really good mod concept!
I've seen it suggested quite a few times on the forums, and AFAIK you're the first one to attempt it.

I would gladly help if I knew anything about programming or modelling...:(

Good luck for the development of this mod! :)

[ensou04]

[quote name='Gaarst']This is a really good mod concept!
I've seen it suggested quite a few times on the forums, and AFAIK you're the first one to attempt it.

I would gladly help if I knew anything about programming or modelling...:(

Good luck for the development of this mod! :)[/QUOTE]


Thanks, I remember it was suggested with Procedural Parts but it never did saw Daylight. Hopefully this would make a more interesting aspect on designing rockets overall :)

You still could help, I need better game mechanics that will be fun!

[Autochton]

I recall suggesting exactly this in the Google+ community recently. I got on to make a bit of a thought exploration of what such a mod might entail - from a realism perspective, as that's where my interests lie. You're welcome to look at it, and use whatever you find useful in there.

[url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YXwV2PF7o75BFWIHEOcOSwgqA2BAQgJcKvbKxhEutcw[/url]

[ensou04]

[quote name='Autochton']I recall suggesting exactly this in the Google+ community recently. I got on to make a bit of a thought exploration of what such a mod might entail - from a realism perspective, as that's where my interests lie. You're welcome to look at it, and use whatever you find useful in there.

[URL]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YXwV2PF7o75BFWIHEOcOSwgqA2BAQgJcKvbKxhEutcw[/URL][/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for this! I would really def look at it!

Edit:
I really love the idea of having to create your engine from a different Building and having it show up (I assume) from the part list when its done. However this brings in an interesting Modding problem, how to create parts in-game and have it show on the part list. If I figure out how to do this, that will be awesome. The way game works, it loads up parts and its configs from the loading screen. so it will be tough to implement such mechanic as we have to refresh the partlist everytime an engine is finished being created Edited November 25, 2015 by ensou04

[Gaarst]

Here are a few ideas/thoughts I got about this:

First, the realism aspect:
Either go for a somewhat realistic engine design, with requirements depending on several parameters (thrust, use, fuel... will influence nozzle, turbopump...); or go more "KSP-style" and allow the player to strap random parts together to make an engine.
Realism would allow the mod to be more complete IMO, but will require mods (Real Fuels first, maybe even RO depending on the mod development) and may not be suitable to some KSP players.
A more realistic mod could also include number of ignitions depending on the parts used, the possibility to upgrade an engine without redesigning it (could be done using tech tree progression in career).
A more "arcade" mod would be easier to use, but you will reach KSP's limits in terms of engineering pretty fast. Also, a mod built on such a model might have difficulties with other-mods support later on.

The game implementation:
In game, in the VAB ? Might be a bit tedious for more complex engines.
A dedicated building ?
An external program ?

A custom engines save system:
It would be nice to have the engines saved as separate files, to allow them to be transfered between saves easily. Or at least make a custom category (like sub-assemblies) for the engines you have created.

Failures:
Maybe allow parts to have failures when they are new, a bit like the random failures mods in KSP, but maybe chances of failure could be influenced by how many times a part has been used with specific other parts, make parts "affinities" (parts that are more reliable when put together).

Plumes:
Not really a gameplay aspect itself, but I wonder how you are going define where the engine flames and smoke should appear, especially for custom clusters.


These are only a few ideas I had while thinking for a (little) bit about this.
I'm sorry I'm bringing more questions than answers or actual ideas :P

[ensou04]

[quote name='Gaarst']Here are a few ideas/thoughts I got about this:

First, the realism aspect:
Either go for a somewhat realistic engine design, with requirements depending on several parameters (thrust, use, fuel... will influence nozzle, turbopump...); or go more "KSP-style" and allow the player to strap random parts together to make an engine.
Realism would allow the mod to be more complete IMO, but will require mods (Real Fuels first, maybe even RO depending on the mod development) and may not be suitable to some KSP players.
A more realistic mod could also include number of ignitions depending on the parts used, the possibility to upgrade an engine without redesigning it (could be done using tech tree progression in career).
A more "arcade" mod would be easier to use, but you will reach KSP's limits in terms of engineering pretty fast. Also, a mod built on such a model might have difficulties with other-mods support later on.

The game implementation:
In game, in the VAB ? Might be a bit tedious for more complex engines.
A dedicated building ?
An external program ?

A custom engines save system:
It would be nice to have the engines saved as separate files, to allow them to be transfered between saves easily. Or at least make a custom category (like sub-assemblies) for the engines you have created.

Failures:
Maybe allow parts to have failures when they are new, a bit like the random failures mods in KSP, but maybe chances of failure could be influenced by how many times a part has been used with specific other parts, make parts "affinities" (parts that are more reliable when put together).

Plumes:
Not really a gameplay aspect itself, but I wonder how you are going define where the engine flames and smoke should appear, especially for custom clusters.


These are only a few ideas I had while thinking for a (little) bit about this.
I'm sorry I'm bringing more questions than answers or actual ideas :P[/QUOTE]

I think the more reasonable approach is to go with the total Realism first, because its alot easier to strip down a mod with complete set of stuff than to add upon it. So we might go with that route first, I'll make sure though that the mod itself is highly configurable hence making it however you want it to behave.

originally, I just intended the implementation of this as a part mod with (the engine bases) inside the VAB, by strapping the engine base on a rocket or any part, right clicking it to open up a GUI to start creating the engine. then saving it inside sub-assemblies for later use. But if we find a way to actually have a dedicated JPL building, have its own category inside VAB. This will be a great addition overall to the immersion and experience. Engines will be save-persistent.

Failures, not mention but was really in my mind, great companion would be Kerbal Mechanics or Dang-it, using rocket-parts to repair or even change the engine overall inflight.

And Yeap, plumes will be probably used for this.

[eurybaric]

Nice!! Subbed to the thread.

Cheers!

[ensou04]

Upon trying to [I]reverse engineer[/I] how engines work inside KSP and trying to edit its variables (thrust in this case) in-game I had no luck it just refuses to take anything I give it and instead use the ones on the configs.

BUT, Upon looking up [B]RealFuel[/B] source, I think [URL="http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/122976-1-0x-SolverEngines"]SolverEngines[/URL] will probably help me alot.

[Autochton]

My ideas re. the ERC UI were a bit predicated on digging deep in the KSP API, and likely adding a UI to the research building instead of adding a whole new building (which I think is probably a bridge too far). I am kinda wondering what might be done to add a part to the list post-load... It ought to be possible, honestly, given that it's just a data structure. Alternatively, maybe look into what Module Manager does to change configs and add parts, use that to build engine configs, then load them? Maybe? Caveat: Not actually so well versed in KSP plugin work. Merely an experienced software developer in other venues.

[olivertk]

is this only for jet engines?

[ensou04]

[quote name='Autochton']My ideas re. the ERC UI were a bit predicated on digging deep in the KSP API, and likely adding a UI to the research building instead of adding a whole new building (which I think is probably a bridge too far). I am kinda wondering what might be done to add a part to the list post-load... It ought to be possible, honestly, given that it's just a data structure. Alternatively, maybe look into what Module Manager does to change configs and add parts, use that to build engine configs, then load them? Maybe? Caveat: Not actually so well versed in KSP plugin work. Merely an experienced software developer in other venues.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, your idea with the UI is way more feasible than making an entire building with its custom editor, I came up with an idea with having a GUI to make an engine. and have it be saved somewhere else besides the parts list (which derps specially with custom module manager configs if preloaded ingame) like a custom GUI like how KIS works. and have Save Persistent.

[quote name='olitk00']is this only for jet engines?[/QUOTE]
No, the name actually references NASA-JPL :) so its mainly with rockets but jet engines will be included

[njmksr]

That sounds [B]a[/B][B]wesome!
[/B]
If there's any way I can help (except textures/meshes, I'm horrible with those) I would love to!