Russia's Space Budget Slashed

[Kryten]

He means it's backwards. The great recession caused a slump in oil prices due to decreased demand.

[fredinno]

2 hours ago, Kryten said:

He means it's backwards. The great recession caused a slump in oil prices due to decreased demand.

Yes. I am not an expert in economics. Do not take my word for it.

[Shamus6200]

That's such a sad thing to hear.  I wonder if there is a certain point below which their aerospace industry simply cannot continue to do what it does best. I wonder as well if that will be a situation that is recoverable in the long run, if ever.

[Dr. Jet]

Dollars, dollars. Dollars worth no more than paper they are printed on. 

http://www.usdebtclock.org

[Sanic]

It's really sad to know that probably none of us will get to go to space, the destiny of mankind.

[Elthy]

How does the cut look like in rubles? The cut is about half of what was planned some time ago, but the ruble dropped quite much (compared to the dollar) in the last year, too. So maybe it doesnt mean they have to fire half of the workers, its propably only noticable when they have to buy stuff from other countrys.

[Rune]

On 11/12/2015 10:55:11, J.Random said:

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE#.D0.91.D1.8E.D0.B4.D0.B6.D0.B5.D1.82_.D0.A0.D0.BE.D1.81.D0.BA.D0.BE.D1.81.D0.BC.D0.BE.D1.81.D0.B0

Sorry it's in russian, but it's a table, you'll get it. The budget expenses are in thousands of rubles. Now, 2 trillions / 10 = 200 billions. I don't see any cut in local currency (yet). We'll see how it goes. It's a good thing our aerospace industry is forced to use (and improve) our own tech instead of spending monies abroad, eh?

I was expecting such a comment, so thank you. You have to take this things in perspective, NASA has been for a long time significantly more funded than the rest of the world's space agencies combined. We may kraken and moan about how that money is diminished and wasted, but they do get a lot (even though they should get more of course!).

Roskosmos always had to really stretch its money to keep up on the ISS program alone. This just means that the future of russian space looks very much like the present, with ISS operations being the centerpiece and the occasional scientific probeslipping under the radar (and more often than not, into the ocean :(). Probably with the same endemic reliability issues, which I hope they plan around (i.e: build two of everything because one will fail!). I fully expect Angara to finally come into service in several variants at Vostochny (at least the single and five-booster versions), which may mean a bit of consolidation on the industry and a couple other rocket lines discontinued. That may very well free up the people to (finally! :)) tackle the Soyuz successor, while keeping on the endless planning for the post-ISS years. The interesting part is what will happen afterwards, ~15 years from now when ISS is getting deorbited and the Chinese have have a shiny new station.

 

Rune. All in all, business as usual.

[WinkAllKerb'']

*grumpf* ... got to go in some military local space t-rex management waste ... when all earth beings survivals are in question ... i really don't get what's wrong with whµman after 50 000 years of conscioussness ... locally speaking ... anyway ...

[fredinno]

9 hours ago, Dr. Jet said:

Dollars, dollars. Dollars worth no more than paper they are printed on. 

http://www.usdebtclock.org

Technically money only is a placeholder for goods of value. Money cannot have value on its own.

[Sanic]

9 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Technically money only is a placeholder for goods of value. Money cannot have value on its own.

  Money isn't always a placeholder, and in those cases it's just be the government telling you that piece of paper is worth something. Only coins have any kind of value on their own.

  I think the world needs to go back to preschool, we can't learn to get along so we forgo the exploration of new worlds because 'I think I'm better than you, no you're not, am too, am not'.

 

Edited December 13, 2015 by Sanic

[fredinno]

10 minutes ago, Sanic said:

  Money isn't always a placeholder, and in those cases it's just be the government telling you that piece of paper is worth something. Only coins have any kind of value on their own.

  I think the world needs to go back to preschool, we can't learn to get along so we forgo the exploration of new worlds because 'I think I'm better than you, no you're not, am too, am not'.

 

No, competition is from evolution, not education- humans were designed like that to live.

 

Also, by definition Money=Debt, aka a Debt that allows you to redeem it for something of value.

Therfore, it is a placeholder.

[fredinno]

No, the rest of the world gets about as much as NASA each year- I checked.

 

Hmm, maybe Rocosmos could take advantage of "Better Faster Cheaper" for its probes- I mean, the greatest loss wasn't money for these probes, when they failed, as some cost less that 200 Million, including launch, but politically. I would honestly rather prefer NASA do their space probes like this too, but flagships have their advantages too.

 

I am a *little* doubtful about the Chinese Space Station- They're budget is actually lower than Rocosmos, even with the cuts!

Also, I'm not sure Soyuz needs a successor right now. There are proposals for a CH4-powered Soyuz V, a Soyuz 2-3, with the N-1 engine as the first stage, and a LH2 Upper Stage given Soyuz 3, but really, Russia already has a  next-gen Soyuz, the Soyuz-2, and they still haven't completed moving to that rocket (not to mention finishing Soyuz 2-1v.

[Sanic]

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

No, competition is from evolution, not education- humans were designed like that to live.

 

  True, but we can also learn. 

[Hysterrics]

Ouch. I suspect we won't be hitching anymore rides to the space station on the Soyuz anymore.

On the bright side, NASA asked SpaceX to ferry crews..soo..maybe SpaceX might be doing the transportation? Or maybe other private companies.

[WinkAllKerb'']

[worir4]

If only people were smart enough to put some money aside into an international fund for science, exploration and health along with other stuff, regardless of political situations. We work best when we work together. Think of the progress over the last 60 years if only NASA and Roscosmos and others worked together instead of competing. 

I suppose the demise of state funded programs leads to the rise of private companies.

[fredinno]

9 hours ago, worir4 said:

If only people were smart enough to put some money aside into an international fund for science, exploration and health along with other stuff, regardless of political situations. We work best when we work together. Think of the progress over the last 60 years if only NASA and Roscosmos and others worked together instead of competing. 

I suppose the demise of state funded programs leads to the rise of private companies.

Well, competition led to the Space Race...

The greatest thing cooperation has led to so far is the ISS.

[Bill Phil]

7 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Well, competition led to the Space Race...

The greatest thing cooperation has led to so far is the ISS.

Actually, NASA has had to cooperate with other entities before. Like in the Apollo Program. They didn't build the rockets themselves. Contractors did.

Anyhow, the ISS is the way it is due to the political game, but let's avoid that subject.

[Geher]

God dammit! This of course happens now that I started to learn russian, to understand the videos on Roscosmos Youtube Channel.

[A35K]

I assume this means all those plans the Russians had of setting up some sort of Moon base are cancelled?

On 12 December 2015 at 07:01:15, Scotius said:

 

Don't forget - first launchers were essentially ICBMs adapted for more peaceful use. Advances in military areas do affect civilian space exploration, so not all money are wasted from our point of view.

Yes, true, but "unfortunately" I don't think many countries are expending their military budgets on developing new ICBMs, but rather to make more of them (and making stealth planes and ships that are too expensive to actually be feasible). And yes, the Chinese space agency is very underfunded, but what I was trying to say is that they have the most potential to become a major player, but wether they develop on this or not I don't know.

Edited December 14, 2015 by A35K

[Nibb31]

I don't think they ever had any real plans. The Russian space industry issues lots of statements about plans and projects, but very little of it is actually funded or even supported by Roskosmos.

[A35K]

Unfortunately that seems to be true for quite a few space agencies these days. We need a new space race! Where what can be done will be done (ok, short of spacecraft propelled by nuclear explosions. Plus, the name Orion is already taken up now!)

[fredinno]

6 hours ago, A35K said:

I assume this means all those plans the Russians had of setting up some sort of Moon base are cancelled?

Yes, true, but "unfortunately" I don't think many countries are expending their military budgets on developing new ICBMs, but rather to make more of them (and making stealth planes and ships that are too expensive to actually be feasible). And yes, the Chinese space agency is very underfunded, but what I was trying to say is that they have the most potential to become a major player, but wether they develop on this or not I don't know.

China really needs to step its game up in terms of space, I agree.

Pretty much everything Rocosmos planned is cancelled at this point.

Also, the US needs to finally develop the Minuteman III replacement (it's VERY old, and doing so has been held off for far too long) and possibly a portable land ICBM (though not sure if this is even needed)

[Dr. Jet]

On 13.12.2015, 19:36:32, fredinno said:

Technically money only is a placeholder for goods of value. Money cannot have value on its own.

But you can't deny that dollar's deemed price is insanely overrated. If China alone will demand the debt repayed - dollar will drop to historical 0.60 roubles per dollar.

[fredinno]

1 hour ago, Dr. Jet said:

But you can't deny that dollar's deemed price is insanely overrated. If China alone will demand the debt repayed - dollar will drop to historical 0.60 roubles per dollar.

It would also cripple China.