The Munar Crusade

[Ehco Corrallo]

1 hour ago, EvermoreAlpaca said:

Bill makes space profitable! 

Launches with tanks mostly empty, 314 tons at launch

Flies to the Mun, refuels with ISRU on the surface.  842 tons at launch from the Mun

Lands on Kerbin with 677 tons remaining, cashing a net profit from the fuel returned!

Wow. Very nicely done. That's a crazy long ship you've got there. 

EvermoreAlpaca's Score: 60,253 credits worth of profit. 

[DBowman]

Great challenge idea - here is my entry.

 

You call for being able to say to your self "I have conquered the Mun". I thought why not realize Wernher von Braun's epic plan as laid out in his 1953 book Conquest of the Moon, (The Viking Press 1953 Wernher von Braun, Fred L Whipple, Willy Ley) I had this book as a kid, it was already archaic but that just added to it's wonderfulness.

 

Von Braun's over the top vision for the first manned Moon landing called for:

• Begin with a 250 foot diameter centrifugal 'gravity' space station serving as a construction base
• The station is constructed from 20 sections lofted by re-usable three stage rockets,
• Each flight carries 36.5 ton of cargo and descends on *steel mesh* parachutes.
• Next assemble three hydrazine & nitric acid fueled behemoths; two crew carriers and one cargo carrier.
• Each Moon vehicle can carry the whole expedition in an emergency.
• The cargo ship is left on the Moon, large parts of it's structure are scavenged and re-assembled as a moon base.
• To keep life support consumables reasonable the trip is restricted to only 50 people for just six weeks of landed time.
• Construction of the ships will consume at least three hundred and sixty launches of the three stage cargo rockets.
• Total propellant consumption: 2,200,000 tons - enough fuel for three Berlin airlifts.
• The Moon ships themselves are as tall as the Statue of Liberty and about 2/3 as broad.
• 'magnetic tape' driven auto pilot controls all burns including landing.
• The 50 person crew consists of pilots, electronics & communications specialists, mechanical engineers, an astronomer, a surveyor, photographers, a mineralogical team, a geophysical team, and a team of physicists.

Here are some images to give you a flavor for what he was planing:

 

Von Braun takes time to point out the "economic impossibility" of direct Earth to Moon vehicles; they would be as tall as the Empire State building and weigh ten Queen Marys ( 800,000 tons ).

 

 

KSP has only minimal in orbit assembly capability. I've not done enough to be sure about being able to assemble something stable and for sure not the way WvB envisaged - so I just hyperedited them from the VAB. I feel ok about that as they would be assembled in an 'orbital VAB' anyway. Without further preamble here is Kernher von Braun's Conquest of the Mun:

 

[Ehco Corrallo]

1 hour ago, DBowman said:

Great challenge idea - here is my entry.

 

You call for being able to say to yourself "I have conquered the Mun". I thought why not realize Wernher von Braun's epic plan as laid out in his 1953 book Conquest of the Moon, (The Viking Press 1953 Wernher von Braun, Fred L Whipple, Willy Ley) I had this book as a kid, it was already archaic but that just added to it's wonderfulness.

 

Von Braun's over the top vision for the first manned Moon landing called for:

• Begin with a 250 foot diameter centrifugal 'gravity' space station serving as a construction base
• The station is constructed from 20 sections lofted by re-usable three stage rockets,
• Each flight carries 36.5 ton of cargo and descends on *steel mesh* parachutes.
• Next assemble three hydrazine & nitric acid fueled behemoths; two crew carriers and one cargo carrier.
• Each Moon vehicle can carry the whole expedition in an emergency.
• The cargo ship is left on the Moon, large parts of it's structure are scavenged and re-assembled as a moon base.
• To keep life support consumables reasonable the trip is restricted to only 50 people for just six weeks of landed time.
• Construction of the ships will consume at least three hundred and sixty launches of the three stage cargo rockets.
• Total propellant consumption: 2,200,000 tons - enough fuel for three Berlin airlifts.
• The Moon ships themselves are as tall as the Statue of Liberty and about 2/3 as broad.
• 'magnetic tape' driven auto pilot controls all burns including landing.
• The 50 person crew consists of pilots, electronics & communications specialists, mechanical engineers, an astronomer, a surveyor, photographers, a mineralogical team, a geophysical team, and a team of physicists.

Here are some images to give you a flavor for what he was planing:

Von Braun takes time to point out the "economic impossibility" of direct Earth to Moon vehicles; they would be as tall as the Empire State building and weigh ten Queen Marys ( 800,000 tons ).

 

KSP has only minimal in orbit assembly capability. I've not done enough to be sure about being able to assemble something stable and for sure not the way WvB envisaged - so I just hyperedited them from the VAB. I feel ok about that as they would be assembled in an 'orbital VAB' anyway. Without further preamble here is Kernher von Braun's Conquest of the Mun:

Awesome. You don't quite get all the glory because you used hyperedit, but the scale, scope, and theme of the mission makes up for that well enough. Basically: Shame on you, but also, very well done. 

You're going on the Board of Crusaders. 

DBowman's Score: One Fourty-Eight man manned mission.

 

[scullyl]

This isn't anything too impressive, it's just a simple egg shaped lander. 

I plan on setting up a larger crater base, so this is just the beginning of the conquest of the mun... there is more to come.

[Ehco Corrallo]

5 hours ago, scullyl said:

This isn't anything too impressive, it's just a simple egg shaped lander. 

I plan on setting up a larger crater base, so this is just the beginning of the conquest of the mun... there is more to come.

I like the design. It'll be cool to see what you come up with for the later stages...

Edited February 5, 2016 by Ehco Corrallo

[scullyl]

51 minutes ago, Ehco Corrallo said:

I like the design. It'll be cool to see what you come up with for the later stages...

Thanks! I kind of want to make them egg shaped because its a fun design but... I dont think it'd be a practical design choice. 

Edit: Yeah not every module will be an egg, but some will. Also I've started work on a rover but it's getting late... expect more tomorrow

Edited February 5, 2016 by scullyl

[Ehco Corrallo]

58 minutes ago, scullyl said:

Thanks! I kind of want to make them egg shaped because its a fun design but... I dont think it'd be a practical design choice. 

Edit: Yeah not every module will be an egg, but some will. Also I've started work on a rover but it's getting late... expect more tomorrow

That's what this challenge is about after all: Fun, and cool designs as well. Well, and also revenge on the Mun, and vindictiveness, but maybe that's just me  

Edited February 5, 2016 by Ehco Corrallo

[scullyl]

Science lab has landed with its skycrane. I'll post more pictures tomorrow, but this went pretty well for my first actual munshot! The original landing site was only about 350 meters away, so I'd say it was pretty successful in just two main maneuvers (excluding some minor adjustments.) 

[superstrijder15]

I had an idea to defeat the the mun, I want to make 2 X in two craters which are next to one another. But before i can do that i will need to increase the framerate and find out what settings I need to be able to see other rockets out of the map from a distance, My laptop runs ksp with about 10 fps when I launch big rockets.

Edit: The craters I expect to go for are the ones which light up orange and green with biomes visible, with the mouth being the purple blob.

Edited February 6, 2016 by superstrijder15
capital letters and a typo

[superstrijder15]

My first drone made it to the crater, now I know that I can do it i'll land some more drones and try making a cross. You can also see the huge SSTO rocket i used to get the probes to orbit, where it is now stuck, and you can see the landed drone.

 

 

[Ehco Corrallo]

21 hours ago, scullyl said:

Science lab has landed with its skycrane. I'll post more pictures tomorrow, but this went pretty well for my first actual munshot! The original landing site was only about 350 meters away, so I'd say it was pretty successful in just two main maneuvers (excluding some minor adjustments.) 

Looks like it's coming along. Nice lander variety. 

17 hours ago, superstrijder15 said:

I had an idea to defeat the the mun, I want to make 2 X in two craters which are next to one another. But before i can do that i will need to increase the framerate and find out what settings I need to be able to see other rockets out of the map from a distance, My laptop runs ksp with about 10 fps when I launch big rockets.

Edit: The craters I expect to go for are the ones which light up orange and green with biomes visible, with the mouth being the purple blob.

Sounds pretty cool! You can't increase the view distance in settings, though; you may need to land your rockets pretty close. My laptop runs KSP pretty well, but framerate or no framerate, big rockets can be a pain. Have you thought about docking things together in Munar orbit (or even LKO)? It'd decrease the launcher size for each payload...

Edited February 7, 2016 by Ehco Corrallo

[superstrijder15]

Each lander is really small, and I didn't wan't to launch a ton of rockets. So I tried putting 8 in a fairing on top of my launcher for space station parts, but it had to many parts and the game then stops simulating struts, so it was really instable. So I thought to keep it stable put them low so center of drag is really low. That meant SSTO, but it worked. The first cross now aready had 4 ships landed, and there are 3 probes still in orbit, and 8 still attached to the launcher. Because of the orbit I can only do the munar transfer once per kerbin month, so that is pretty annoying. above is an album showing how far I am currently.

 

Here is an album of my laucher reentering the atmosphere:

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by superstrijder15
Extra album of reentry

[superstrijder15]

I'm not gonna build one big thing, but the X's will be made out of the "base" signatures on the map. Mainly what I meant with problems with the view is that those markers saying "here flies target/debris on x distance from you" dont apear with me. This makes docking way harder because that and the low graphic settings combined mean that I only get a visual for my space station from about 150 meter and before that I can only use the navball.

 

I have got all probes to munar orbit, here's a album of how that went:

 

[Ehco Corrallo]

7 hours ago, superstrijder15 said:

I'm not gonna build one big thing, but the X's will be made out of the "base" signatures on the map. Mainly what I meant with problems with the view is that those markers saying "here flies target/debris on x distance from you" dont apear with me. This makes docking way harder because that and the low graphic settings combined mean that I only get a visual for my space station from about 150 meter and before that I can only use the navball.

I have got all probes to munar orbit, here's a album of how that went:

Looks like it's coming along.  I ran a similar mission a short while back, and the best part was when I had all the probes ready and waiting to drop along an equatorial orbit. On the map, it looked as though the Mun had a ring. 

I like that you run all the transfer and maneuver burns simultaneously. It's much cooler (and harder) than sending everything one by one. 

[Jhawk1099]

Does this have to be completed in Career or is sanbox fine? Because this strikes me as rather expensive

[Ehco Corrallo]

45 minutes ago, Jhawk1099 said:

Does this have to be completed in Career or is sanbox fine? Because this strikes me as rather expensive

It is very much intended to be completed in sandbox, mostly because it's intended to be very, very expensive. Career entires are perfectly welcome, but it's hard to keep up with the necessary scale if you're strapped for cash. 

Also: Does your username happen to have anything to do with this? 

 

[Jhawk1099]

22 minutes ago, Ehco Corrallo said:

Also: Does your username happen to have anything to do with this? 

Whatever it is (it wont load) probably not. Its just the username I've had since I was a kid. (the J is for Jason [Jason is my name])

[superstrijder15]

43 minutes ago, Ehco Corrallo said:

It is very much intended to be completed in sandbox, mostly because it's intended to be very, very expensive. Career entires are perfectly welcome, but it's hard to keep up with the necessary scale if you're strapped for cash. 

Also: Does your username happen to have anything to do with this? 

 

The link just gives a yellow square with helis.com in it

 

Looks like it's coming along.  I ran a similar mission a short while back, and the best part was when I had all the probes ready and waiting to drop along an equatorial orbit. On the map, it looked as though the Mun had a ring. 

I like that you run all the transfer and maneuver burns simultaneously. It's much cooler (and harder) than sending everything one by one. 

I didn't burn ererything one after another: 5 or so had already gone to the mun, one was sent an orbit early, and for the rest I activated all engines and set up some maneuver about half and orbit before the transfer. Also there were like 2 clusters; one of the upper ring probes and one of the bottom ones; with 20 min inbetween. And by the time of munar encounter most had hours of difference to the others and it didn't matter that much where I burnt exactly.

Edited February 9, 2016 by superstrijder15

[superstrijder15]

I have landed more probes, this time I show the landing procedure, and how it looks now. I need some advice thoug: I got 4 probes left, shat should I do with them. It isn't enough to increase the cross size, should I paint the mouth or just crash them or put them at the X's anyway?

 

[Jhawk1099]

On 2/9/2016 at 11:11 AM, Ehco Corrallo said:

It is very much intended to be completed in sandbox, mostly because it's intended to be very, very expensive. Career entires are perfectly welcome, but it's hard to keep up with the necessary scale if you're strapped for cash. 

Despite what this challenge is intended to be I am going to do it in career mode so I have the constraints of money and crew members so efficiency is something I will have to worry about. As for how I will display it is a youtube mini series. But to spare you having to watch all of them I put the specifications of my munar crusade in a post as to make scoring easier on you. Because after all i can tell you have a very strict algorithm for scoring people 

[Ehco Corrallo]

8 hours ago, superstrijder15 said:

I have landed more probes, this time I show the landing procedure, and how it looks now. I need some advice though: I got 4 probes left, shat should I do with them. It isn't enough to increase the cross size, should I paint the mouth or just crash them or put them at the X's anyway?

Wow! Nice. It looks very precise. I'd like to see at least one crewed landing, though, just for the heck of it. (And because it was partially specified in the OP.)

I think you ought to put the probes on your X's anyway. You might as well, seeing as you got them this far. 

1 hour ago, Jhawk1099 said:

Despite what this challenge is intended to be I am going to do it in career mode so I have the constraints of money and crew members so efficiency is something I will have to worry about. As for how I will display it is a youtube mini series. But to spare you having to watch all of them I put the specifications of my munar crusade in a post as to make scoring easier on you. Because after all i can tell you have a very strict algorithm for scoring people 

Sounds great. I'm really interested to see how you manage to make a mission simultaneously extravagant and efficient...

And yes, my scoring algorithm is precise, unwavering, and on average means absolutly nothing. (Or everything; it's hard to tell sometimes.)  

 

[superstrijder15]

3 hours ago, Ehco Corrallo said:

Wow! Nice. It looks very precise. I'd like to see at least one crewed landing, though, just for the heck of it. (And because it was partially specified in the OP.)

I think you ought to put the probes on your X's anyway. You might as well, seeing as you got them this far. 

 

I think I will make some mining lander which can dock with my munar station and put it inbetween, maybe set up a perimeter with the probes? Gonna make something tomorrow.

[Spudrotuskutarsu]

Jeb, Bill and Bob go to the Mun

Jeb had a nightmare about the Mun suddenly crashing into Kerbin, so he decided to go stab it with a pointy stick.

I used KJR, KRE, all parts stock

Edited February 11, 2016 by Spudrotuskutarsu
Added mods

[Ehco Corrallo]

23 minutes ago, Spudrotuskutarsu said:

Jeb, Bill and Bob go to the Mun

Jeb had a nightmare about the Mun suddenly crashing into Kerbin, so he decided to go stab it with a pointy stick.

I used KJR, KRE, all parts stock

That's an awesome Apollo-esque mission you have there. Unfortunately, it's not terribly unnecessary, and doesn't quite fit the challenge. I'm incredibly impressed, don't get me wrong, it's an excellent mission; very well designed and flown, but I'm not sure if it qualifies. It came up earlier in the thread that this isn't just about landing on the Mun, it's about conquering it, it's about ludicrous mission-plans, and one-way trips. It's also about personal accomplishment, though, so don't count yourself out yet:

If this sort of mission is a cake walk, and not much more different or difficult from anything you've attempted previously, then I can't really consider this a qualified entry. However, if it pushed your abilities, and was at least something of a challenge in and of itself, then I'll relent and award you a non-existant badge of honor. 

I appologize if the OP was in anyway unclear, and for any confusion the highly ambiguous scoring/qualification system may have caused. 

56 minutes ago, superstrijder15 said:

I think I will make some mining lander which can dock with my munar station and put it inbetween, maybe set up a perimeter with the probes? Gonna make something tomorrow.

Sounds good. 

[Spudrotuskutarsu]

20 minutes ago, Ehco Corrallo said:

That's an awesome Apollo-esque mission you have there. Unfortunately, it's not terribly unnecessary, and doesn't quite fit the challenge. I'm incredibly impressed, don't get me wrong, it's an excellent mission; very well designed and flown, but I'm not sure if it qualifies. It came up earlier in the thread that this isn't just about landing on the Mun, it's about conquering it, it's about ludicrous mission-plans, and one-way trips. It's also about personal accomplishment, though, so don't count yourself out yet:

If this sort of mission is a cake walk, and not much more different or difficult from anything you've attempted previously, then I can't really consider this a qualified entry. However, if it pushed your abilities, and was at least something of a challenge in and of itself, then I'll relent and award you a non-existant badge of honor. 

I appologize if the OP was in anyway unclear, and for any confusion the highly ambiguous scoring/qualification system may have caused. 

Sounds good. 

No worries, this was the first time out of Kerbin orbit for months so i sent something "simple". I'll try to make something bigger over the weekend