Science for Kerbol's Far Heliosphere

[GarrisonChisholm]

Good evening all.

As I am reaching the middle-age of my first (stock1.02still) game, I am finding that I wish there were "more" beyond mere planetary biomes, even if I were to add OPM.  Voyager has made significant discoveries after 40 years of travel, finding a roiling magnetic froth where the solar wind inter-mixes with the interstellar medium.  I think I would find it extremely rewarding if, were I to have the patience, a ~10km/s probe were to extend far out beyond Eeloo (or Plock) to reach a new biome to collect science from.  Even if it is impossible to have multiple stars (if I am reading Kopernicus correctly) in the game, it would be pretty darn cool to find Near Magnetic Sheath, Heliopause, and Interstellar Medium "biomes" (even though "bio" should be excised from the term in such a case).

[subsequent post affixed for visibility]

It would be plausible to say that the magnetic field over the poles of a star is functionally different than other areas, and so a distinct Region Of Unique Science (biome) would be possible [over the poles].  However, if you parse down the state and effect of the entire magnetic field far enough, you could easily justify a dozen distinct ROUSs over Kerbol.  This would be awesome for Gravioli sales, but maybe also a bit of opening the barn door too much for the development team.

For the purposes of this conversation, for my part I would advocate its focus on Distant Solar Science;

Kuiper Belt Region (1 ROUS, accessible upon close approach to an object; for ease of implementation, functionally the same asteroid generation system as exists near Kerbin)

-the science returned for all instruments would be tailored for Pluto-type objects and smaller; Nitrogen ices and Tholins observed, atomic sublimation to solar radiation of surface replenishables, etc.

Heliopause (1 ROUS, accessible upon reaching a given distance from Kerbol)

-the science returned would be almost exclusively up to the Gravioli Detector, as I could offer little argument for allowing any other instrument to collect science that would be functionally different than 100 km earlier.  This would be the boundary where Kerbol's magnetic field begins to interact with the extra-solar medium.

Interstellar Medium (1 ROUS, accessible upon reaching a given distance from Kerbol)

-the science returned here would be broader, as uncontaminated (relatively) observations of nearby stars and local gasses could be made; I could argue for Barometric science (perhaps the best instrument extant to detect gasses) as well as Gravioli.  One could lobby for the Science Junior to be a stand-in for a stock astronomic analysis of nearby stars, though reasonably this return should not be dependent upon it reaching This point.  This region would be the Gold Star achievement, rewarding dedication, persistence, & patience.

 

So, those are my notions so far.  I am not a scientist, and cannot claim to have anything more than a layman's understanding of such matters, but to me this seems to have a kernel of logic and at least a spark of fun.

Edited January 6, 2016 by GarrisonChisholm
Visibility, Clarity

[samstarman5]

That is actually a fantastic idea, and even opens up opportunities for a new science part or two (or at least giving a new angle on the thermometer when it is used in vacuum.

That being said, you should really present this in the suggestions forum.

[cantab]

I don't *think* Kopernicus can do it. So far as I know the situations are limited to those in stock.

[AbacusWizard]

I like it! That would give a lot more motivation for "exploring" the far outer reaches (and inner reaches) of the solar system.

[pandaman]

This could be a very intetesting addition,  effectively 'biomes' in open and interplanetary space, I like that idea.

[RandomRyan]

i dont like it. i LOVE it! imagine, a biome in interstellar space, not knowing you're in it! hah!

adding it may be too sciencey or advanced for young players, but thats the fun in it.

Edited December 19, 2015 by RandomRyan
The fun in it

[NecroBones]

YES! I would love to have some of the solar regions function for some high return science. It would give reasons to do "sun divers" as well as "Voyager" probes as well, if we had "biomes" for low and high solar altitudes like that.

 

EDIT: They do have "high" and "low" space regions for the sun now. But what really needs to be added is an outer region that starts beyond those outer orbits. I'm not sure how moddable that is currently, but I think this needs to be stock.

 

Edited December 19, 2015 by NecroBones

[ExtremeSquared]

5 hours ago, pandaman said:

This could be a very intetesting addition,  effectively 'biomes' in open and interplanetary space, I like that idea.

They are definitely not biomes. The implication that life was found at every single landing site on every atmosphereless planet in the system is already a bit hard to believe for me. The entire KSP system is basically built of anaerobic bacteria.

[Archgeek]

Zounds, kerbol heliopause'd be sweet.  On the subject of sundivers, has anyone had any luck abusing radiators to get solar atmospheric science yet?  Its atmospheric height is listed at 600km, and since the dv needed to get to a 610km circular orbit is said to be13.7km/s, I've got two 14km/s+ probes that ostensibly can do it, but might not be able to take the heat that far down.

[LordKael]

28 minutes ago, Archgeek said:

Zounds, kerbol heliopause'd be sweet.  On the subject of sundivers, has anyone had any luck abusing radiators to get solar atmospheric science yet?  Its atmospheric height is listed at 600km, and since the dv needed to get to a 610km circular orbit is said to be13.7km/s, I've got two 14km/s+ probes that ostensibly can do it, but might not be able to take the heat that far down.

I did it once, with a heat shield and a dozen giant radiators. Basically, took a 3.75m heat shield, pointed it at the sun, and then in 4x physics warp let the probe approach. This let the ablative properties protect the science type parts, and the radiators helped as well, though I'm not sure how much. 

I don't have pictures, but the probe was a 3.75m heat shield attached to a spire made of either I-Beams or structural girders, and then radiators up top. The science package was as far away as possible from Kerbol, just as a faint hope it would survive an extra second or two. 

Hope this helps!

[Branjoman]

I also love the idea of having biomes within space, rather than just on planets.

On the subject of it's feasibility, it should be able to be done. In the Kerbal galaxy mod, there is a defined area somewhere around Jool that will act as a portal to one of the other solar systems - this probably could be adapted in some way to manifest biomes in deep space somehow 

[problemecium]

I agree it'd be nice, but given that so far SQUAD seems dead-set against anything interstellar, don't expect it to ever show up in the stock game. Here's hoping the mod people figure it out

[Corw]

Love the idea.

[nosirrbro]

This would be a great addition, I hope someone either mods it or it becomes stock.

[iliketrains0pwned]

On 12/19/2015 at 7:09 PM, GarrisonChisholm said:

Even if it is impossible to have multiple stars (if I am reading Kopernicus correctly) in the game, it would be pretty darn cool to find Near Magnetic Sheath, Heliopause, and Interstellar Medium "biomes" (even though "bio" should be excised from the term in such a case).

It actually can handle it pretty well. There's a mod out there called "The Galactic Neighborhood" which puts all sorts of planet packs around their own star systems. Even Kerbol itself is set in orbit around the mod's "Galactic center"

[pandaman]

On 19/12/2015 at 5:42 PM, ExtremeSquared said:

They are definitely not biomes. The implication that life was found at every single landing site on every atmosphereless planet in the system is already a bit hard to believe for me. The entire KSP system is basically built of anaerobic bacteria.

Agreed,  'biome' always was technically the wrong word really, but it's what they are called in game so we are stuck with it.

[GarrisonChisholm]

1 hour ago, pandaman said:

Agreed, biome' always was technically the wrong word really, but it's what they are called in game so we are stuck with it.

We should ideally call them Regions Of Unique Science.

ROUSs.

And thus, the best cool/cute computer game ever is joined with the best cool/cute movie ever.  *mic-drop*

 

(Quick quip via mobile)

 

Edited December 21, 2015 by GarrisonChisholm

[Inverurie Jones]

1 hour ago, GarrisonChisholm said:

We should ideally call them Regions Of Unique Science.

ROUSs.

And thus, the best cool/cute computer game ever is joined with the best cool/cute movie ever.  *mike-drop*

 

(Quick quip via mobile)

 

Inconceivable.

[Rdivine]

On 12/19/2015 at 10:02 PM, RandomRyan said:

i dont like it. i LOVE it! imagine, a biome in interstellar space, not knowing you're in it! hah!

adding it may be too sciencey or advanced for young players, but thats the fun in it.

i doubt young players would be able to send a craft into an escape trajectory. If they could, i'd bet they would understand the science of interstellar space  

[Temstar]

Hmmm I wonder, you know how the Sentinel IR space telescope from Asteroid Day is used to detect objects beyond its own orbit around Kerbol?

If you place an IR telescope beyond Eeloo's orbit would it be able to detect Kuiper belt objects?

[GarrisonChisholm]

Likely, given Hubble can find them from Earth orbit.  The game would need a very complicated mod though- not just creating Asteroids, but significant and randomized bodies with gravity which would then need to persist.

 

It sounds awesome to me, but bear in mind if you bothered to play for 100 years you could have hundreds of significant bodies beyond Eeloo to track.  I'm sure there'd be a performance trade-off somewhere.

 

It would be awesome just to have a Kuiper Belt "biome" (ROUS) from which to transmit/collect science.

[Finox]

This is an excellent idea!   It would give us something to do with an outer-system flyby probe after it had completed it's primary mission.   Plus, whatever instrument is used for deep space, could open up a new way of collecting science in general.   I hope squad picks up on the idea.

[pandaman]

6 hours ago, GarrisonChisholm said:

We should ideally call them Regions Of Unique Science.

ROUSs.

And thus, the best cool/cute computer game ever is joined with the best cool/cute movie ever.  *mic-drop*

 

(Quick quip via mobile)

 

Okay.  I suspect there is a less than subtle movies reference hiding in there somewhere. 

Please enlighten this out of touch old man 

 

[GarrisonChisholm]

It does depart the Science genre so do not count yourself out of touch, however in the delightful comic fantasy The Princess Bride, ROUSs appear as Rodents Of Unusual Size.

 

Which at least one person copped to by quoting another reference, "inconceivable."

[Joonatan1998]

Maybe also give Kerbol polar biomes? 

Magnetic fields interacting with the plasma should make them different enough from the rest of kerbol.