(STAR WARS SPOILERS) Was anyone else a bit disappointed with Star Wars?

[waterlubber]

Warning: This post contains spoilers. If you did not see the movie, for god's sake, don't click on it.

Spoiler

I felt like having Kylo Ren kill Han was a bit of a cop-out to make him evil. Instead of having him do something really bad, they could have expressed his evilness in other ways, a la xkcd Black Hat. It seems like Disney got lazy.

Also, wasn't Han frozen in Carbonite? How did he get out? Did I miss something?

 

[RainDreamer]

10 hours ago, fredinno said:

At least this new version was much heavier defended compared to the other two, especially its weak spots.

It has a cap on. That is all they learned. Has any of them heard of the concept of redundancy?

[Tex_NL]

7 minutes ago, waterlubber said:

Also, wasn't Han frozen in Carbonite? How did he get out? Did I miss something?

Have YOU been frozen in carbonite since 1983? Did you never see Return of the Jedi?

My only true disappointment was Rens appearance. For decades we've been told the darkside corrupts physically. Ren looks completely normal.

[tater]

11 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

Have YOU been frozen in carbonite since 1983? Did you never see Return of the Jedi?

My only true disappointment was Rens appearance. For decades we've been told the darkside corrupts physically. Ren looks completely normal.

But his teen angst is real, even past his teen years.

[fredinno]

44 minutes ago, RainDreamer said:

It has a cap on. That is all they learned. Has any of them heard of the concept of redundancy?

And turrets surrounding it.

[tater]

Was it destroyed by a massive force, or a tiny force like the Death Star? It was tiny, so they clearly learned nothing at all.

It's a Star Wars movie, though, so like the rest of them it doesn't really bear any close scrutiny at all. It was never more than pulp (which is not a bad thing).

[fredinno]

No Darth Jar Jar was a big let down. On the other hand, Darth Jar Jar only got popular after most of Ep.7 was made, so there's still a chance, I guess.

[Bill Phil]

To me it feels like it's a set up to the later movies. But the original wasn't that. It can just as easily be a lone movie in the franchise. This one seems like we need more. That's okay, I have no problems with that. But something more intense should've happened. Maybe destroying a classic planet? Idk.

And why not just build a dozen death Stars? Why one planet?

[KerbMav]

I have a small canon-fetish.

JJ-Trek received some raised eye-brows from me.
And after season four finished they did some things to and in Dr Who (apart from changing the actor and producer [not that I did not like Smith, but because I liked Tennant so much]) that somehow felt out of place to me (having no knowledge of the classic show, to be honest, but neither Amazon nor Netflixx has them available).

So, although Star Wars did not have much canon on screen (comics and books, I know, I dearly miss the Thrawn trilogy storyline and am still trying to fit it in for myself between VI and VII or something) some things did not taste quite right.  The political situation is weird: Did the Empire not collapse completely? Is the Resistance then independant from the New Republic? Why is Leia part of the Resistance instead of building up the New Republic? How is Rey able to resist Ben's mind attacks and do an Obi-Wan on her Stortrooper guard without any training and probably not even knowing much about what a Jedi is/does/can do? The power-tonfa-thing I get, but do Stormtroopers train how to use a sword, a lightsaber no less (the blade being quite hot complicates the weilding a bit, no)?

2 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

To me it feels like it's a set up to the later movies. But the original wasn't that. It can just as easily be a lone movie in the franchise. This one seems like we need more. That's okay, I have no problems with that. But something more intense should've happened. Maybe destroying a classic planet? Idk.

Of course it is a setup, it was planned to be a trilogy, like the prequels - which also started with a non-stand-alone first part.

Destroying a classic planet - honestly I did not know it was not Coruscant until I came to the KSP forums, so in the cinema I turned to my friend saying "I see a pattern here, JJ joins a franchise and first he does is to destroy an iconic planet".

[Bill Phil]

Well, I mean a classic planet of the originals. Coruscant is mostly a prequels thing, which I'm okay with, but a lot of people aren't.

And they didn't really specify, or I didn't notice. It was worse than the Alderaan scene; there we at least had a name.

Of course the movie is good. I like it. It just has flaws.

[KerbMav]

19 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

Well, I mean a classic planet of the originals. Coruscant is mostly a prequels thing, which I'm okay with, but a lot of people aren't.

Not entirely correct:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coruscant

The Empire's homeworld first appeared in the expanded universe and was called Coruscant for the first time in Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire. Coruscant was first seen on screen in the 1997 Special Edition release of Return of the Jedi, and the X-Wing series of computer games. Coruscant was then seen (major appearance) in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace. There is a speeder chase through the skies of Coruscant in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones that eventually leads to a nightclub in the bowels of Coruscant's Uscru Entertainment District. Coruscant is seen in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith as part of the opening battle scene.

Edited January 4, 2016 by KerbMav

[Bill Phil]

12 minutes ago, KerbMav said:

Not entirely correct:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coruscant

The Empire's homeworld first appeared in the expanded universe and was called Coruscant for the first time in Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire. Coruscant was first seen on screen in the 1997 Special Edition release of Return of the Jedi, and the X-Wing series of computer games. Coruscant was then seen (major appearance) in Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace. There is a speeder chase through the skies of Coruscant in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones that eventually leads to a nightclub in the bowels of Coruscant's Uscru Entertainment District. Coruscant is seen in Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith as part of the opening battle scene.

All of that is actually post originals. I'm talking the late 70s, early 80s episodes 4 through 6. Coruscant was introduced to most by the prequels. And those memories, for a good amount of people, aren't necessarily good ones. Now I'm not talking about when it was first introduced. I'm talking about how a lot of people, a decent amount of people, aren't fond of Coruscant due to the association with the prequels.

Heir to the Empire was published in the 90s. According to your link, that is.

I mean that it's not material from the original theatrical releases. What if they blew up Tatooine? Or Dagobah? Or Endor? 

[KerbMav]

51 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

All of that is actually post originals. I'm talking the late 70s, early 80s episodes 4 through 6. Coruscant was introduced to most by the prequels. And those memories, for a good amount of people, aren't necessarily good ones. Now I'm not talking about when it was first introduced. I'm talking about how a lot of people, a decent amount of people, aren't fond of Coruscant due to the association with the prequels.

Heir to the Empire was published in the 90s. According to your link, that is.

I mean that it's not material from the original theatrical releases. What if they blew up Tatooine? Or Dagobah? Or Endor? 

I honestly cannot say how or where I first learned of Coruscant.

Those three would be of no real significance storywise in the movie: a dust-ball of giant mafia-slugs, a muddy mist-ball, a small moon with fur-balls ...

[Bill Phil]

56 minutes ago, KerbMav said:

I honestly cannot say how or where I first learned of Coruscant.

Those three would be of no real significance storywise in the movie: a dust-ball of giant mafia-slugs, a muddy mist-ball, a small moon with fur-balls ...

It's not the story that matters as much. It's the destruction of something that's loved.

But there is some story in it. Luke could reminisce of a destroyed Dagobah or Tatooine, and if we had Tatooine here, then Rey could have a lot of emotion, too.

[KerbMav]

11 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

It's not the story that matters as much. It's the destruction of something that's loved.

I disagree - JJ letting the First Order destroy a planet/system that has nothing to offer storywise just to destroy a planet from the original trilogy would have added to the "copied IV everywhere" chorus.

[RainDreamer]

Technically destroying the Republic prevents the Resistance to attack them with full forces. And if not for our heroes, they would probably have been wiped out. Heroic units too OP.

[Nibb31]

8 hours ago, KerbMav said:

So, although Star Wars did not have much canon on screen (comics and books, I know, I dearly miss the Thrawn trilogy storyline and am still trying to fit it in for myself between VI and VII or something) some things did not taste quite right.  The political situation is weird: Did the Empire not collapse completely? Is the Resistance then independant from the New Republic? Why is Leia part of the Resistance instead of building up the New Republic?

Apparently, this was explained in the novelization and was supposed to be in the movies, but was cut out. The Empire collapsed, but its ideology survived under the form of small pockets. At one point, Snoked dude and Kylo Ren managed to reunite these pockets into the First Order.

In the meantime, the New Republic pussied out and didn't want to start a new war, so they are running a proxy war (think Syrian civil war, or Korea, Vietnam, etc...) through the Resistance, which is a guerilla group run by General Leia, and funded by the New Republic. Probably Leia took more interest in pursuing a military career than a political one.

Now that the New Republic has pretty much been annihilated, I guess the guerilla Resistance is now the only thing left from the actual Republic...

 

Quote

How is Rey able to resist Ben's mind attacks and do an Obi-Wan on her Stortrooper guard without any training and probably not even knowing much about what a Jedi is/does/can do? The power-tonfa-thing I get, but do Stormtroopers train how to use a sword, a lightsaber no less (the blade being quite hot complicates the weilding a bit, no)?

Yes, this bit is annoying IMO. Rey goes from "oh I thought it was just a legend" to becoming a autodidactic Force user, where Luke actually spent several weeks (months?) training with Yoda to even start properly using the Force.

Rey using a Jedi mind trick to escape just seemed too easy for someone who didn't even know that the Force existed a few minutes earlier.

And the same is true for both Finn and Rey being able to handle a lightsaber. During the actual fights, you see them both just trying to stab and bash Kylo the best they can. They're not demonstrating much skill at all.

 

Quote

Of course it is a setup, it was planned to be a trilogy, like the prequels - which also started with a non-stand-alone first part.

Destroying a classic planet - honestly I did not know it was not Coruscant until I came to the KSP forums, so in the cinema I turned to my friend saying "I see a pattern here, JJ joins a franchise and first he does is to destroy an iconic planet".

They said it was the Hosnian system. Maybe Coruscant remained faithful to the Emperor and fell into the hands of the First Order (although we do see Coruscant celebrating at the end of ROTJ-Special Edition).

Edited January 4, 2016 by Nibb31

[Cydonian Monk]

Simple explanation for Rey's sudden Force powers: She's pure, 100% midichlorians. 

 

(.... I'll see myself out.)

 

For all we know she might've been Force-conning merchants for years. "No, what I brought you today is worth three portions." "What you brought me today is worth... three... portions."

Edited January 5, 2016 by Cydonian Monk

[Bill Phil]

10 hours ago, KerbMav said:

I disagree - JJ letting the First Order destroy a planet/system that has nothing to offer storywise just to destroy a planet from the original trilogy would have added to the "copied IV everywhere" chorus.

Not necessarily, the only planets destroyed in the originals were ones we never even saw the surface of.

And it has plenty to offer story wise. More than the destroyer planets already in the movie.

[KerbMav]

5 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

Not necessarily, the only planets destroyed in the originals were ones we never even saw the surface of.

And it has plenty to offer story wise. More than the destroyer planets already in the movie.

To my knowledge the Death Star(s) only ever destroyed one planet, Alderaan, homeplanet of Leia and therefore used to threaten her into revealing the location of the rebel base - and subsequently destroyed as "an effective demonstration" of the Death Star's capabilities, because it was a populated and central world (the pretended Dantooine being "too remote").

Starkiller Base destroyed the New Republic's capital world Hosnian Prime, a target of strategic value. (Or not - as the Republic did nothing afterwards? J.J.!!!)

None of the three planets would have made any sense as a target - they might have sentimental value to the audiance, but the Empire/First Order as at war with the rebels/Resistance, not the fans.

[Tex Mechs Robot]

I enjoyed the movie. My only major issue(s) was Rey's ability to manipulate the force in a controlled manner and Rey's and Finn's unexplained abilities with the light saber. I can reason that Rey had serious weapon skills due to her background and the Finn would have had some level of training with swords as a storm trooper but in the movie, it felt very unrealistic somehow.

Minor beefs are Captain Phasma's underwhelming role, the ease at which the Star Base Killer was destroyed, and the lack of reasoning behind Kylo Ren's crosshilted light saber.

Overall, I enjoyed watching it and will enjoy it in the future as well.

[fredinno]

What the hell was the purpose of Phasma anyways? Couldn't they just have used a random stormtrooper to close the shield?

[JedTech]

6 minutes ago, fredinno said:

What the hell was the purpose of Phasma anyways? Couldn't they just have used a random stormtrooper to close the shield?

Her purpose was to be a female person in charge of stuff.

[Tex Mechs Robot]

8 minutes ago, JedTech said:

Her purpose was to be a female person in charge of stuff.

Which I think was a good move. But by making her so underwhelming, it defeated the purpose.

[RainDreamer]

Phasma doesn't even get to show her face. She is supposed to be a leader of a group of stormtroopers, and should be at least a mini-boss level of presence.