What is the deal with these contracts

[GoSlash27]

tater,

 From my last career demo (normal difficulty)...

The first science collection on the pad yields $6,400, 13.2 science, and 2 Rep.

The first suborbital hop yields $115,200, 44.2 science, and 22 Rep.

The first orbit yields $78,400, 53 science, and 19 Rep

The first Munar flyby yields $86,080, 98 science, and 16 Rep

I didn't include the interim "pure science" missions and I stopped there because after the second Munar flyby I had unlocked all the necessary tech, but at that point I had $287,388 in the bank, 6% reputation, and was being offered satellite contracts.

(aside, this is the first time I've crunched the numbers. I spent $23,692 total on my missions in this period)

There are a lot of other milestones I hadn't hit in that demo that would've paid rewards.

My first 1.05 "Caveman" left me with $488,520 in the bank and I hadn't taken any contracts yet or sent a probe to the Munar surface, so it gives you an idea of how well milestones pay.

If you just plug along collecting science, unlocking stuff, and breaking records, you don't need contracts. At least not in the early career.

Best,

-Slashy

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2016 by GoSlash27

[tater]

Wow, that's interesting, and points out even more issues with career. I've been playing since 0.23 or 0.24 and never bothered to test this. 

[Waxing_Kibbous]

Slashy, since you do the caveman thing quite a bit- does upgrading mission control have any bearing on the types of contracts one gets? I generally upgrade it pretty early on for Man. nodes and more contracts, but I am curious if this is a factor.

Quote

Wow, that's interesting, and points out even more issues with career. I've been playing since 0.23 or 0.24 and never bothered to test this. 

I don't think it's an issue at all- it allows one to do some advanced things without waiting around for the contract to pop up. I'm a big fan of the world first system, plus it really does throw a lot of money and science at you- you not only get eg Mun flyby, but also orbit, land, return from Mun, etc. There are actually a lot of goals in the world first system- I haven't done the grindy drive around KSP for science since 1.05 came out, don't really need to anymore (unless I need a handful of science to unlock a tier, I use it as an as needed occasional supplement, not it's own separate mission).

Edited January 1, 2016 by Waxing_Kibbous

[GoSlash27]

WaxingKibbous,

I can't say for certain how facility upgrades affect the contracts that are offered. I end my Caveman runs when all the facility zero tech has been unlocked.

 My first 1.05 run was done caveman- style, and it was offering rescues and satellites before I had upgraded any of the facilities. Mid-game, those are the only contracts I really care about, so they're the only ones I paid attention to.

5thHorseman would probably know the answer to that one. He usually upgrades his facilities earlier in the career.

Best,

-Slashy

 

Edited January 1, 2016 by GoSlash27

[tater]

The issue with career I mentioned was really very on-topic to OP's post. Since funds are only ever in short supply early, and funds are the primary reward for contracts, the contract system is effectively unnecessary. 

This is not apparent without actually testing as slashy has done. I've been playing over a year and never thought about it. I think that having what is in effect the centerpiece of the career system (the contract office, aka "Mission Control") utterly unnecessary is a waste of effort on squad's part. This shows it to be explicitly a "side quest" system. Given that this is the case, the contracts should be more interesting. 

 

 

[GoSlash27]

1 hour ago, tater said:

The issue with career I mentioned was really very on-topic to OP's post. Since funds are only ever in short supply early, and funds are the primary reward for contracts, the contract system is effectively unnecessary. 

tater,

 Well... yes and no.

 You are absolutely correct that contracts are unnecessary in early career, *but* there does come a point in mid- career when you will need loads of cash to expand your facilities and rewards will no longer make ends meet. Contracts become important in this stage, and they're actually pretty good by this point (provided you read the fine print).

 Which brings us back to the original point: Early contracts suck. The best way to deal with them is to just ignore them and press on because you don't need to do contracts at this stage. Once they actually become necessary, they are much better.

Happy New Year!

-Slashy

[tater]

Yeah, I suppose since I generally only take stuff I like that is coincident with my personal mission plans anyway, I haven't noticed mid career shortages, I'm always pretty flush. Of course I never upgrade the runway, hanger, or strategy office since I don't use them.

[suicidejunkie]

A lot of early contracts suck, but there are a lot more good ones if you are willing to build a plane or two instead of going pure rockets.  And it opens up a lot more if you're willing to build hybrids like in the screenshot earlier in the thread.

 

Reading the fine print is really critical.  I accidentally accepted a contract for a rescue in Kerbin orbit.

This joker was (is) stranded out past mun orbit, because I'd had Jeb kick a rocket just barely up to 250km for high science.  He'll be waiting a while, but now there's an extra push in the space center for bigger rockets.

[Sirine]

On 01/01/2016 at 11:52 PM, GoSlash27 said:

Uhh... what on Earth does .18 Demo have to do with 1.05 career?

In 1.05 career, you cannot "orbit Minmus at tier zero with no upgrades" as you claimed. You can't even make Kerbin orbit. If you think you can, have at it:

If you had spent more time following your own advice and less time belittling others, you would know this.

Happy New Year,

-Slashy

 

Slashy,

I stay with my word. Yesterday I start a fresh KSP and did some testing. Yeap. It can be done. Simply stack the boosters a few layers, in game, outside the launch pad.

It does not limit me to Mimnus once I getting to orbit. Just more tedious launch.

- Sirine

 

[GoSlash27]

23 minutes ago, Sirine said:

Slashy,

I stay with my word. Yesterday I start a fresh KSP and did some testing. Yeap. It can be done. Simply stack the boosters a few layers, in game, outside the launch pad.

It does not limit me to Mimnus once I getting to orbit. Just more tedious launch.

- Sirine

 

Sirine,

 Excellent news! It shouldn't be any problem at all for you to actually demonstrate what you claim to be able to do.

 I'll just pop over to the challenge thread and let them know you're coming.

Pics or it didn't happen

-Slashy

 

 

Edited January 2, 2016 by GoSlash27

[Vanamonde]

This thread is getting personal. Let's not do that, please. 

[Wjolcz]

 I actually feel discouraged to keep playing my pre-1.0.5 career save after updating. Last time I launched the game back on I just cheated 2.5mln vf, upgraded the R&D and thought something like "Uhh... Do I really want to send another mission?" and closed the game.

Now I'm feeling torn. I invested so much time and because of that I don't want to start another save, but I also feel a kind of sentiment. I landed a whole bunch of base modules on Laythian Northern Pole in preperation for the big mission and then the parts got shuffled on the tree again. Eh.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Veeltch

[Sanic]

  Stock contracts suck. Contracts should integrate somewhat into my game, not require me to fly a heavy SRB to 23,000m traveling at 250m/sec when I have barely unlocked the basic liquid fueled engine. 

Enough said.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Sanic

[MarvinKitFox]

On 2015/12/29 at 8:37 PM, Conbadicus said:

So, I've put hundreds of hours into ksp and finally decided to give these contracts a go. The first 3 are great, milestones such as launch your first ship, orbit, etc.
Following that, immediately I get a ton of stupid contracts that make absolute no sense.

Haul a booster into flight above Kerbin.  Ok sure, this makes sense. DERP except It has to go between 23 and 28km alt... ANnnnnd be traveling at 250kmh, or what ever it was.  This led to several test flights fine tuning fuling vs thrust, ascent angle, etc. Eventually I just gave up on the contract.  Way too tedius, reward completely not worth the time. 
Same for parachutes, really? get a craft to a specific height and speed? 
Ferry 4 people to ___ location. What the hell I don't even have space to carry these people and I wont for a couple more science nodes.

I understand we need lots of stuff to do to earn money but... these are killing me.

These sort of contracts are not mean for you. They are meant for players that are capable of paying attention to fine detail, who bother to read the whole requirement specification, and in general pay attention to detail.

The willingness to actually think outside of the box could also be needed, such as the need to understand that one can launch a capsule containing a tourist, which you simple laterally attach to your rocket.

 

Some hints:

*Mission requires you to haul (or activate) a part at a specified height AND speed? Just mount it on a strong rocket that has a throttle control. Throttling your engine power does wonders to select the needed speed!

*Mission requires you to fly four people to a location? That's a very advanced mission! Are you sure you do not simply have to fly them to a defined situation, and return? Such as "suborbital Kerbin", or "Mun flyby"?

To move tourists, simply mount your smallest tank radially around your rocket, empty the tank and put a capsule on top. To do this needs ONE tech improvement, and that's simply because one does not get very far using fleas for propulsion. Symmetry is a good idea.

 

If your post was to complain that the early contracts get repetitive, or that the relative rewards offered per difficulty was inadequate, you would possibly have a valid point.

As it is.... You do not.

 

[Cdr_Zeta]

Hello,

 

I get a few mods to help add to careers because my difficulty level is increased by rearranging the parts to make more sense when they should be available, and making fewer of them available; thus I 'NEED' more contracts (and repetitive ones); the main contracts do seem not enough to get thru a more difficult and realistic gameplay.

I miss KSP ...

Cmdr Zeta

[Conbadicus]

On 1/6/2016 at 3:01 AM, MarvinKitFox said:

These sort of contracts are not mean for you. They are meant for players that are capable of paying attention to fine detail, who bother to read the whole requirement specification, and in general pay attention to detail.

The willingness to actually think outside of the box could also be needed, such as the need to understand that one can launch a capsule containing a tourist, which you simple laterally attach to your rocket.

 

Some hints:

*Mission requires you to haul (or activate) a part at a specified height AND speed? Just mount it on a strong rocket that has a throttle control. Throttling your engine power does wonders to select the needed speed!

*Mission requires you to fly four people to a location? That's a very advanced mission! Are you sure you do not simply have to fly them to a defined situation, and return? Such as "suborbital Kerbin", or "Mun flyby"?

To move tourists, simply mount your smallest tank radially around your rocket, empty the tank and put a capsule on top. To do this needs ONE tech improvement, and that's simply because one does not get very far using fleas for propulsion. Symmetry is a good idea.

 

If your post was to complain that the early contracts get repetitive, or that the relative rewards offered per difficulty was inadequate, you would possibly have a valid point.

As it is.... You do not.

 

Pretty sure you didn't read my post(s) or you wouldn't have made your final statment.