More RemoteTech confusion (no connection)

[Snark]

7 minutes ago, ToukieToucan said:

So 4 satellites with comm 16 and a dp 10 need to be launched at equal distances right?

To space it evenly I could have an orbit of 250 km and 500 km and then let the probes circularize to 500 km after reaching Periaps each time with the main ship, right?

Personally, I always go with just doing individual satellite launches.  It may not be optimally efficient in terms of cash, but they're so dirt-cheap anyway that it doesn't matter much, and it saves a lot of hassle and head-scratching.  A minimal comsat with just a Communotron-16 and a couple of solar panels costs practically nothing to launch.

And I also don't worry too much about trying to get them spaced just right.  Simpler to just launch a few extra satellites, then a bit of positioning error here and there doesn't matter much.  If you have 6 or 7 satellites up there, in practical terms you'll never have a gap.  And positioning them is a breeze-- each time you want to launch a new satellite, just wait until the constellation orbits around to the desired position and then launch the new guy straight into the slot where you want it.

[Alshain]

19 minutes ago, ToukieToucan said:

 

So 4 satellites with comm 16 and a dp 10 need to be launched at equal distances right?

To space it evenly I could have an orbit of 250 km and 500 km and then let the probes circularize to 500 km after reaching Periaps each time with the main ship, right?

That web planner helps you with that too.  Enter your relevant data (Kerbin, 500km, etc) then scroll down to where it says "Multiple Launch View".  Now, I find that a bit confusing but it means multiple satellites on one launch, not multiple launches.  What it tells you there is both a Pe (i.e. Lower Period) and an Ap (i.e. Higher Period) which will set your launch vehicle up to get relatively accurate separation in one orbit.  You can use either one, so one point will be 500km, and the other point will be Higher (852.874km) or Lower Period (116.06km).  This makes it easy, release a satellite, circularize it, wait for the vehicle to go around, repeat 3 more times.

Once you have done that you should have a working network but you can fine tune the separation.  This works the same way as a rendezvous, but with a rendezvous you are trying to get an closest approach as close as possible.  With the satellites you want your closest approach to be the value over the blue line on the upper image of that tool.  So pick one satellite as a starting point, set it as the target for the two neighbors and make the closest approach markers show 1,555.635km.  Then make sure the orbital periods match as perfect as possible and you are done.  For the last satellite you will use one of the two neighbors as a target, not the one you started with (which should be opposite the planet).

Edited January 10, 2016 by Alshain

[ToukieToucan]

1 hour ago, Alshain said:

That web planner helps you with that too.  Enter your relevant data (Kerbin, 500km, etc) then scroll down to where it says "Multiple Launch View".  Now, I find that a bit confusing but it means multiple satellites on one launch, not multiple launches.  What it tells you there is both a Pe (i.e. Lower Period) and an Ap (i.e. Higher Period) which will set your launch vehicle up to get relatively accurate separation in one orbit.  You can use either one, so one point will be 500km, and the other point will be Higher (852.874km) or Lower Period (116.06km).  This makes it easy, release a satellite, circularize it, wait for the vehicle to go around, repeat 3 more times.

Ah I thought you needed to use both the Pe and Ap, thanks for clearing things up. Also handy that there are delta v stats showing how much delta v is needed for lowering and making it a higher orbit.

[ToukieToucan]

 

RIP Jeb... oh well now I have a nice relay system... (Jeb died due to a faulty decoupler not separating the right stuff)

 

All at 500 km altitude.

[Stone Blue]

2 hours ago, ToukieToucan said:

 

So 4 satellites with comm 16 and a dp 10 need to be launched at equal distances right?

To space it evenly I could have an orbit of 250 km and 500 km and then let the probes circularize to 500 km after reaching Periaps each time with the main ship, right?

Dont need the DP-10 on each sat... Just ONE DP-10 on the LAUNCH vehicle... On manned flights, I usually put it on the command pod (which will be re-entering and landing), or for unmanned launches, I usually put it on the 1st stage (just make sure you have at least a Comm16 or someother antenna on the part of the craft that will go to orbit)

To get the spacing right (and Snark and I obviously have different methods), that is what using resonant orbits is for: If you release a sat at the same point on each orbit, the spacing will automatically be correct (IF you have the proper resonant orbit for the amount of sats you want to deploy, in a given orbit)... Again, that website I linked like 4 times will GIVE you the proper res. orbit (basically just the height of the PE you need)...

[Stone Blue]

3 hours ago, Snark said:

I agree that 150 km is too low, but I'd suggest that 1000 is a bit high.  I'd suggest going for a lower altitude, like 500 km, and having a few more satellites.

Rationale:  It's useful for an LKO ship with just a DP-10 to be able to connect to the communications network.  For example, if you have an unmanned probe that's reentering, and you'd like it to be controllable during descent, and you happen not to be bringing it down right on top of KSC.

Hmmm... I'm still not sold on a 500km orbit, but thats just me

My rationale for a 1000km orbit, is that 4 Comm16s (2500km range):

1. are just under max. range to talk to each neighbor (2262km), leaving a little bit of room for drift...
2. their sphere of coverage, almost completely envelopes Kerbin.. (So sats within 70-100km orbits, with high inclinations should still be covered, as well as ALL of Kerbin LKO: from Kerbin's surface to almost to KEO...)
3. they cover out to just a hair past KEO (2863-2869km), so no other antennas needed, once you expand out to KEO with the network

SO all that, with just 4 tiny, 7-10 part sats, and all done with ONE launch...

AND, if I have unlocked the Comm32, I skip the LKO network and Comm16s, and go straight to 4 or 6 sats in KEO, and consider my LKO network DONE...

Edited January 10, 2016 by Stone Blue

[Alshain]

53 minutes ago, ToukieToucan said:

 

RIP Jeb... oh well now I have a nice relay system... (Jeb died due to a faulty decoupler not separating the right stuff)

All at 500 km altitude.

Way to go on the network, the first one is always the hardest.  Sorry to hear about Jeb.

[Zhetaan]

Nice network; I see you worked out the kinks.

In the interest of thoroughness, I noticed on your screenshot that it appeared both of your dishes on the keostationary sat were pointed at Mission Control.  In that case, they never were going to connect to what you had on the pad, no matter how you set it up.  If the keostationary orbit is stable, then setting a dish to look at Kerbin would pick up everything on that side of the planet, including Mission Control, rovers, planes, and rockets--provided they have active antennae with enough range, of course.  In a pinch, set one dish to Kerbin or Mission Control and the other to 'Active Vessel' and you won't have to worry about connecting.  I try to be sure to keep a couple of 'Active Vessel' dishes in the Kerbin system just in case I whoops on an Omni's range or something similar.

I use dishes if I don't have the DP-10 yet because they don't get ripped off in atmo, but there's a trick to them:  even if you right-click them and select 'Start Deployed' in the VAB, that doesn't give them a target.  Use launch clamps if you have them, or else start with a deployed Omni (just remember to retract it once you connect the dish to something!).

I prefer to set up a relay with three satellites instead of four, mainly because I also prefer to do individual launches and it's a lot cheaper to do fewer of them (by almost 25%, in fact ).  I set up my network with Communotron-16s at 777 km because it's not anywhere near any of my usual parking orbits; you can go anywhere from 600 - 850 km with that setup.  Below 600 km, Kerbin blocks line-of-sight, and above 850, the satellites are out of range of one another.   Going closer than maximum range, as I do, also gives good polar coverage--remember that space is three-dimensional, and that there's a well of dead zone over each pole in an equatorial relay setup.  With the right relay altitude, your polar sats won't lose their downlinks if they are sufficiently high up, though you never will get good ground coverage.