Improving air brakes

[Speeding Mullet]

I did a quick search on the forum and also eugooglized and couldn't find anything similar.  I'd be extremely surprised if this hasn't already been discussed, but this thread got me thinking about air brakes, and their current functionality compared to what they could be.  Therefore this is a discussion about how to improve air brakes.  Current air brake use is either deploy on/off, use as control surfaces, or tap/hold B to semi deploy.  It's this ability to semi deploy that I would like to focus on, but perhaps others have wants for the air brakes that I hadn't thought about.  Happy to update the OP with any good suggestions (at my discretion).

 

I would like to propose that the air brakes are given some love in one of the following ways:

1)  Two keys are assigned to the air brake in order to manually adjust the deflection angle.  Once the desired deflection is reached the air brake holds at that angle until changed.  The air brake also becomes tweak-able in VAB/SPH to be able to set max deflection angle.  In all other regards the air brake functions exactly as it does now (i.e. brake button and tapping B still does the same thing).  I think personally this is the best implementation, and improvement to this part.

2)  The addition of a more traditional "flush with part" air-brake would be welcome.

Interested to read peoples thoughts on this.  It's probably been suggested and discussed but again I couldn't find it.  Happy to shut this one down if it's already a matured discussion.

 

SM

Edited January 10, 2016 by Speeding Mullet
edited format and spelling correction

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Agreed. Airbrakes are the reason many spaceplanes can come home.

[Wjolcz]

AIRBRAKEs are alright and I don't mind any improvements to them, but the main thing I would like to have in stock is having the ability for ctrl surfaces to act as brake rudders (just like the AIRBRAKEs do).

AIRBRAKEs seem to fit only the top (and bottom) of the Mk2 parts, and I would like to have other control surfaces to act as brake rudders/split rudders because the airbrakes look super ugly when used on the wings.

 

http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/Northrop/n-9m/n-9ma_split_flap.jpg

Ugh. I still can't get used to posting pics, I guess.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Veeltch

[Alshain]

Not sure about this one.  I'm not sure, is that how real airbrakes behave?  I didn't think so.

Flaps on the other hand usually have multiple deployment angles, those definitely would be nice to have. (You typically want a lot more added lift for landing than take off, if I'm not mistaken, but you still want some for take off)

[YargJay9991]

A flat airbrake wouldn't go to waste at all. It would sit flush with a wing for example. More control over the direction that elevators and ailerons etc move would be nice too, but that's a separate conversation.

Happy Flying

YargJay9991

[Speeding Mullet]

8 hours ago, SpaceplaneAddict said:

Agreed. Airbrakes are the reason many spaceplanes can come home.

Thanks!  Yes, they certainly do help.  Wouldn't it be nice to vary the deployment of the air-brake to adjust your de-orbit profile on the way in!

 

4 hours ago, Alshain said:

Not sure about this one.  I'm not sure, is that how real airbrakes behave?  I didn't think so.

Variable incidence air-brakes are more common than you think, probably more common than simple on/off systems.  Given that the a.i.r.b.r.a.k.e.s. in KSP already have a pitch and yaw function it can be argued that they are not a simple on off system, so the request for variable control is I think sustainable.

Totally agree with you on flaps would be a nice addition to the game - If you are adding variable deflection flaps to the game you can go ahead and give airbrakes the same ability in my opinion. 

 

7 hours ago, Veeltch said:

other control surfaces to act as brake rudders/split rudders

Not sure if this will help you as a workaround in case something like this is never implemented, but you can do something like this:

In this instance I have placed two shuttle tails very close together, and set the deploy functions to act as split rudders.  They are amazingly effective at bleeding off speed.

In the same way you can also place two flaps very close to each other (in each other using the offset tool if you wish).  If you set one to deploy inverted, and tie the deploy action to the brake action group, then you can create split speed brakes like this:

 

Hope that helps!

5 hours ago, YargJay9991 said:

A flat airbrake wouldn't go to waste at all. It would sit flush with a wing for example. More control over the direction that elevators and ailerons etc move would be nice too, but that's a separate conversation.

Happy Flying

YargJay9991

A flat airbrake would be very nice, and a workaround is setting a flap inside the wing as per this:

I did a quick test (disabling all other brakes) and the flaps do add noticeable deceleration so it is a thing.  Not sure if this is a valid alternative to flat air-brakes really though, as they don't deflect nearly enough.

 

Good discussion so far thanks for your input!

SM

[Wjolcz]

Nice. But that doesn't work very well if you want to use them for yaw. It's possible to do that with AIRBRAKEs, but not with standard control surfaces.

http://i.imgur.com/ik10PY0.jpg

[pandaman]

Yes, I like the OP's idea to add this couple of 'tweakable' things to the airbrakes, it gives a few more useful opions without really adding complexity, and a flat airbrake part would also be a welcome addition.

[Speeding Mullet]

16 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

doesn't work very well if you want to use them for yaw

I think you are referring to the split tail air-brake on the picture of the Buran shuttle.  If you are then they work for yaw in the normal way.  It also works just fine on the existing flaps.  You can have them function in the same direction, but split only when you active them as air-brakes.

If I've misunderstood you please try and talk me through it in a more fundamental way

 

16 minutes ago, pandaman said:

without really adding complexity

I think this is the key.  The proposal assumes the air-brakes will act in the exact same way they do now, apart from the addition of a key bind able "+ -" to set and hold deflection angle.  this way the basic use is maintained while allowing an "advanced user" function should you wish to access it.

 

SM