Advice on progressing through Career and Building?

[GoSlash27]

On 1/19/2016 at 1:17 PM, DocktorMedic said:

And if anyone also has tips for building basic to semi-basic ships,that would help ALOT too ;D (Again,I am definitely not the best at building working ships,I haven't even gone interplanetery before!)

Here's an example of a full return Minmus surface probe for starting facilities. I keep it in my "rocket park" because it was so helpful in early career.

 

The parts available in tier-zero are sufficient to get you 3 tonnes of payload into LKO without violating the pad mass restrictions, and this is a lot to work with if you design for efficiency.

Design tips:
* I don't bother with kerballed flights once I have probe cores. 
* The LV-T30, LV-909, and 48-7S are the triad of awesomeness in early game.
* SRBs are evil when first starting out. You can get a lot more done without them until you upgrade.
* Expect your upper stage+payload to weigh about 225% of your payload and your total lifter to weigh about 275% of your upper stage and payload. Your booster should be able to get you to about 27km altitude on a gravity turn so that your upper stage won't have to deal with aerodynamic stability problems.

One gameplay tip:
* "World's first" awards pay way better than contracts. You should try to focus on going to new places and collecting science rather than completing contracts. Once you've got the tech tree opened up, you'll start getting satellite contracts and rescues. Those are usually worth doing (read the fine print).

Best,
-Slashy
 

[Kelderek]

3 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

One gameplay tip:
* "World's first" awards pay way better than contracts. You should try to focus on going to new places and collecting science rather than completing contracts. Once you've got the tech tree opened up, you'll start getting satellite contracts and rescues. Those are usually worth doing (read the fine print).

Best,
-Slashy
 

I would also add that there is a really nice strategy in the admin building called "Leadership Initiative" that lets you gain more from world firsts at a cost of lower contract gains.  You will bring in more funds, reputation, and science (both from the world first and also from your experiments).  You only need to account for the fact that there are no advanced payments with world firsts like there are with contracts, but there is no reason why you can't still do contracts.  I have my strategy running at 60% (tier 2 admin building max) and here are the adjustments I get:

95% increased funds and reputation from world firsts

30% increased science from world firsts AND experiments ("field work gains")

45% reduced funds, reputation, and science from contracts

I found that the key to playing this way is to try to go to new places as much as possible and fewer repeat visits.  So for example, after I did missions to Minmus and the Mun, I went to land on Ike (obtaining high and low Duna space science too).  Then I launched a new mission to land on Gilly (obtaining high and low Eve science also) and dropped an unmanned lander probe to Eve's surface to transmit science back home.  By planning missions this way I get tons of funds and science and I don't need to worry much about contracts at all.  I keep checking contracts in case there is an easy one available that aligns with my mission goal like "plant a flag on X" or "science data from space around X", but I don't have to design my missions entirely on what contracts are available.

[Kelderek]

Just to reiterate what I said above, here's an example of some of the funds, science and rep I got from a recent mission:

I think I gained over 3 million funds on this trip to the Jool system with a couple flybys and a landing on Bop.  No contract needed at all.  This is just an example from later in the game, but the same holds true for early world firsts in the Kerbin system too.

[Warzouz]

17 hours ago, Kelderek said:

Just to reiterate what I said above, here's an example of some of the funds, science and rep I got from a recent mission:

I think I gained over 3 million funds on this trip to the Jool system with a couple flybys and a landing on Bop.  No contract needed at all.  This is just an example from later in the game, but the same holds true for early world firsts in the Kerbin system too.

Nice one.

Further more, you can get level 5 kerbals from such a mission,even without landing on any planetary bodies : check the school bus topic

Around 5000m/s from LKO and no more than 3 hours of game play (including ship design)

I think I rush to Jool when 1.1 will be available.

[Nightshift83]

I felt that base hopping suggested earlier is kind of an exploit too (besides I've never built any rover yet). But I do remember from my earlier careers that at a certain point early on I had a really hard time progressing.

I then usually made the mistake of building bigger wich would surely lead me into the "rocket-equation-trap" eventually. But as mentined above Minmus is quite a good alternative for grapping science early on. It is further away but compensates for much less gravity in return so you might actualy cover more than one biome as opposed to Mun, its more forgiving with little miscalculations too.

If you fiddle around a bit with your maneuver-nodes you can surely make a fly-by mun on your way too (one way or the other-just watch your batteries).

I do have the feeling that since 1.05 contracts are usually in a way that you can combine them in a single mission, just read carefully. Early rescue missions for example, where you can pick up a tourist or two, and have the rescued Kerbal do a crew report too, since you're going up there anyways test that decoupler on your way as well..

If you have the feeling that you unlocked technologies are not sufficent for the job - think twice: maybe your ascent profile could be optimized more. Do some research on the forums or youtube videos. A few hundred delta-v's saved near Kerbin make a huge difference out there at Minmus.

That said even if I can't recall the countless trials to orbit Kerbin for the first times in my careers (thats the only mode I played since it became avaiable), there still is a uncertainty if for example reentry will work smoothly for that next first time (wich is good). The restart functions lets you figure out a lot about the mechanics. If you cant afford unlocking that heat shield try coming down with a different aproach. Or just lift of in another direction, you might land on an entirely different biome.

I guess the first few tiers of science to be unlocked have to be picked much more carefully than later on, so think about what you want/ need to do next.

Whenever you land on a new location (manned) plant a flag and name it accordingly. If you did science before it'll tell you the name of the biome wich you could than put in the name or additional information tab on your flag (I usually do year and time and whoever was the pioneer too, as well as the vehicles name, but thats more for the lore) so you don't accidentaly go there a second time. (Although you can get science points for redoing some of the research too!)

If you don't think it's too boring try exploring Kerbin with planes, you can get science and learn something about different aerodynamic settings as well that might help you designing your rockets too.

Last but not least you can allways wait a couple hours or days inbetween your missions (more realistic anyway) before trying to archieve the next big step in your space program, contracts need some time to kick in. As in offering you a contract that will actually net you some money for the next step you wanted to do anyway (and those extra 6 science points might just close the gap to the next tech).

If nothing helps and you're stalled maybe, just maybe look for a mod that helps you a bit to get over the edge.. I would recommend this more for refining your personal game experience as opposed to 'cheating' through the campaign, but it's a  single playe game at last and if it helps you enjoy your engineering playtime and at the same time makes obstacle easier to overcome - why not - your choice..

[Wemb]

10 hours ago, Nightshift83 said:

I felt that base hopping suggested earlier is kind of an exploit too (besides I've never built any rover yet). But I do remember from my earlier careers that at a certain point early on I had a really hard time progressing.

I then usually made the mistake of building bigger wich would surely lead me into the "rocket-equation-trap" eventually....

I do have the feeling that since 1.05 contracts are usually in a way that you can combine them in a single mission, just read carefully. Early rescue missions for example, where you can pick up a tourist or two, and have the rescued Kerbal do a crew report too, since you're going up there anyways test that decoupler on your way as well..

Yup, I think this is the key - if you can plan your rockets properly and build an efficient launcher, you can easily double or even triple up on tourist sub-orbital and tourist/rescue orbital missions with really limited tech - you'll rake in the cash needed (and the crew's needed) for the big stuff - and you get a perhaps surprising amount of reward for (relatively) simple missions such as a munar flyby - which can all be done with the same tech as your basic rescue/orbital. Don't worry about getting -all- the science in one hit as well - once you can go to the Mun, you can get the science at anytime (since you'll be a regular traveller)

 

Wemb

[Geoclasm]

1. Don't be afraid to take easy missions early on - Test <thing> at launch pad/landed are good ones.
2. Look at the parameters of ship components - I just recently learned that when you are building new rockets you can throttle back the burn of SRBs (which you can't do in flight). Knowing this would have saved me a lot of grief early on when I was trying to combine multiple missions.
3. Combine contracts: Test this parachute in flight? Do any other contracts have similar parameters?
4. Kerbin Surveilance Contracts SUCK HARD until you get access to supersonic (at least) fight, at which point they don't appear in the pool very often anymore.
5. Make sure you read mission details. Satellite contracts are easy money... unless you accidentally take one for a satellite body on another planet.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Geoclasm

[sal_vager]

Kerbin survey contracts don't need supersonic flight, it just takes longer without it, but Junos are pretty efficient so you can easily go a log way and you have physwarp.

Yes take the easy contracts, in fact don't feel you have to do every contract, you can pick and choose and the list will update while you're off doing something else.

You can get to the planets without the high end stuff, it just takes more fuel with the less efficient engines, so don't feel you have to have the LV-N before you leave the Kerbin-Mun-Minmus area.

 

[Chakat Firepaw]

19 hours ago, Geoclasm said:

Kerbin Surveilance Contracts SUCK HARD until you get access to supersonic (at least) fight, at which point they don't appear in the pool very often anymore.

One thing to remember about those is that the requirement "take a crew report from area XXXX at an altitude above ~20,000m" is not saying "in the atmosphere at an altitude above...."

Those crew report ones can be done from orbit.

Low-tech glider style return vehicles are also quite possible and can be deployed suborbitally if you don't want to take a long flight around the world.

[wumpus]

On 1/23/2016 at 9:10 AM, GoSlash27 said:

Design tips:
* I don't bother with kerballed flights once I have probe cores. 
* The LV-T30, LV-909, and 48-7S are the triad of awesomeness in early game.
* SRBs are evil when first starting out. You can get a lot more done without them until you upgrade.

[edit: after testing this after Slashy's note, I should point out that while SRBs are great, I have to recommend liquid engines on top of SRBs even for suborbital launches.  Re-entry [even going up] is just too dangerous for SRBs alone.]

 

Note that the lowest level SRBs (flea and hammer) are fairly useless.  The next two (thumper and kicker) can really supply the delta-v you need to get into space.  By carefully mixing a thumper and LV-909 (terrier) you can send a kerbal into orbit (a 48-7S works much better, but isn't typically available for that first launch).  Such rockets are wildly cheaper than the LV-T30 based machines.

When you unlock kickers, you will likely no longer be interested in thumpers, but sometimes they are good for boosting small satellites into low orbits (along with 48-7S for circularization). A good thread for hints on kickers :http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/122488-rules-of-thumb-for-building-cheap-and-cheerful-rockets/

Careful use of SRBs can leave you with a ton of funds that splurging on LV-T30 (don't forget the LV-T45: vectoring is often your friend, especially on unkerballed missions) might have eaten up.

Edited January 31, 2016 by wumpus
mentioned in the edit

[GoSlash27]

16 minutes ago, wumpus said:

Note that the lowest level SRBs (flea and hammer) are fairly useless.  The next two (thumper and kicker) can really supply the delta-v you need to get into space.  By carefully mixing a thumper and LV-909 (terrier) you can send a kerbal into orbit (a 48-7S works much better, but isn't typically available for that first launch).  Such rockets are wildly cheaper than the LV-T30 based machines.

When you unlock kickers, you will likely no longer be interested in thumpers, but sometimes they are good for boosting small satellites into low orbits (along with 48-7S for circularization). A good thread for hints on kickers :http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/122488-rules-of-thumb-for-building-cheap-and-cheerful-rockets/

Careful use of SRBs can leave you with a ton of funds that splurging on LV-T30 (don't forget the LV-T45: vectoring is often your friend, especially on unkerballed missions) might have eaten up.

wumpus,

 This is all true... if you have upgraded your pad. If you haven't, all they will do is hamper your payload to orbit. If you concentrate on exploring and collecting science in the early game, you will be flush with cash and the cost savings from SRBs are trifling in comparison. In my last normal difficulty "caveman" career, I didn't even spend the initial funding on launches and raised a half a million dollars in the process. This was without contracts or strategies, just simply breaking records and farming science.

 But yeah... once you have upgraded the pad, Kickbacks are the way to go for the first stage.

Best,
-Slashy

[Snark]

30 minutes ago, wumpus said:

Note that the lowest level SRBs (flea and hammer) are fairly useless.

I concur that the Flea is useless-- frankly, I wish they'd just drop it from the game, it's a completely pointless engine for any purpose ever.  Just move the Hammer down to the initial tier.

I wouldn't call the Hammer useless, though-- I use 'em fairly often for my smaller ships.  It's true that I use the Thumper more often, and most designs that could take a Hammer could fit a Thumper instead.  But I think the Hammer has its place.

4 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

This is all true... if you have upgraded your pad. If you haven't, all they will do is hamper your payload to orbit. If you concentrate on exploring and collecting science in the early game, you will be flush with cash and the cost savings from SRBs are trifling in comparison.

And in any case, the expense of the rockets themselves is pretty minor-- the really big expenses are the building upgrades, especially the science facility.  Early career tends to be pretty flush with cash no matter what you do, so there's a lot of latitude.  I go with SRBs right from the start, not for any particular math reasons.  I just really like SRBs.  They go whoosh and make a spectacular column of flame.

It means upgrading the launchpad fairly early... but the first upgrade there is cheap, and is far less cash than I have at that point in career.

 

[GoSlash27]

55 minutes ago, Snark said:

I concur that the Flea is useless-- frankly, I wish they'd just drop it from the game, it's a completely pointless engine for any purpose ever.  Just move the Hammer down to the initial tier.

Snark,

 The only purpose I can see for the Flea is that it can't get you to space. I can see why this would be important in early career (crawl before you walk), but from a design standpoint it's basically just a potentially hazardous paperweight.

 I agree about the RT-10; it's actually useful and can save you some money if used properly.

 I personally prefer to not upgrade the pad until I actually need to put more than 3 tonnes into orbit. This is a surprisingly long time.
 There's no "wrong way" to play KSP except where you go broke.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited January 31, 2016 by GoSlash27

[Snark]

12 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

The only purpose I can see for the Flea is that it can't get you to space. I can see why this would be important in early career (crawl before you walk), but from a design standpoint it's basically just a potentially hazardous paperweight.

Yeah, I get that... it's just that it feels... inelegant somehow.

I really like that simple parts available early in career (the Mk1 command pod; the Swivel; the small fuel tanks; the Mk1 parachute; etc.) stay useful and relevant all the way through career.  I think that for the most part, KSP does a brilliant job of incremental buildup-- new parts become available to open new possibilities, but the old ones stay relevant.  Very little in the game becomes actually obsolete.  That's hard to do well, and my hat's off to the design job here.

So, given how great most of the game is in this regard... the Flea just really sticks out.  It's really, truly useless.  There's no reason for anyone to ever use it for anything, ever, once the Hammer's available.  Heck, I've actually never used a Flea, other than just once when it first came out and I was all excited to finally have a new SRB to play with and I put it on a ship and launched it once and said to myself "well, that's useless" and then put it down and never touched it again, despite having done at least half a dozen career playthroughs since then.  I just grab a few points of science off the launchpad in the first thirty seconds of my new career, unlock the Hammer, and it's off to the races.

After all... a Hammer's not going to get you to space, either, at least not without decouplers and some kind of liquid-fueled engine.  (I hasten to add that I'm not saying "it technically can't be done," just that it would be awkward and silly, and would be harder than just unlocking some liquid-fueled engines and flying a more conventional ship.)

There's nothing wrong with having a part or two that becomes obsolete (I'm lookin' at you, OKTO), as long as it has a long enough "window of relevance" to fill a useful role in career.  I just dislike the Flea because its window of relevance is excessively narrow... basically doesn't last past a single launch, if that.  Would love to see the game axe the Flea, and have some other, more useful part instead.

[wumpus]

19 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

wumpus,

 This is all true... if you have upgraded your pad. If you haven't, all they will do is hamper your payload to orbit. If you concentrate on exploring and collecting science in the early game, you will be flush with cash and the cost savings from SRBs are trifling in comparison. In my last normal difficulty "caveman" career, I didn't even spend the initial funding on launches and raised a half a million dollars in the process. This was without contracts or strategies, just simply breaking records and farming science.

 But yeah... once you have upgraded the pad, Kickbacks are the way to go for the first stage.

Best,
-Slashy

You don't need to upgrade your pad for a BACC "thumper", and it is great for getting a mk1 into orbit.  I just ran through a test run (default difficulty) to make sure.  What I *did* find out was just how rough the new re-entry issues are, and how much more dangerous they make using early SRBs.

My first attempt "leaving the atmosphere" involved slapping a BACC "thumper" (this was the point, after all) on a mk1 cockpit and letting her rip.  RIP Bob.  Killed due to re-entry effects on the way up (I assumed a beginner wouldn't be adjusting thrust and such).  Tried again with lowered thrust: RIP Jeb, killed on the way down (coming down steeply from 140,000m is a bad idea).

I started over (and this time remembered to play with the materials lab.  Moar science!).  My successful launch into space actually required a larger rocket than my orbital craft(it also hauled up a science jr up into space, along with goo canisters, and fins so Bob could control the rocket).  But a lot of the reason was because I didn't have the LV-909 and had to make to with the swivel.  The orbital craft was a BACC thumper, [decoupler] LV-909 with medium and small (LT-400 & LT-200) fuel tanks [another decoupler] a heat shield and a mk1.  No science experiments or fins (Jeb at the controls).  Both rockets fired any remaining fuel on the way down, and I suspect that may have been important to their survival.

By this time I could afford to upgrade the pad if I unlocked kickers and wanted to go to the Mun or Minmus (at least 250,000 funds and the astronaut complex with the first upgrade).

While I still recommend SRBs for beginners, I now know that you have to recommend putting liquid rockets on them for even suborbital maneuvers (using liquid engines on top for orbit becomes obvious).

 

Spoiler

First mission: launch vessel, collect science.  Do full science dance.
money 72,942 science 37.3
Unlocked basic rocketry (stage 1), engineering 101 (stage 1), surviability (stage 2) [I'd grab general rocketry, but beginners shouldn't]
second mission: test item on pad, haul parachute into air.  (roughly mission 1, but with full fuel).
money 141,160 science 23.4
unlocking general rocketry.
third mission (escape atmosphere, orbit [a mistake.  Compounded by the existence of "test BACC rocket on pad"]).
RIP Bob.   Note: this might be a bigger problem than the pad issue (I assumed a beginner wouldn't know to crank down thrust on a SRB.  SRB overheated, exploded.)
[Oddly enough, I got credit for the parts that went into space after exploding at ~20,000m.]
fourth mission (test BACC on pad, orbit)
cheated a bit, cranked both fuel and thrust down to zero.  Took money and ran.
money 270,000 science 16.4
fifth mission (test launch clamps on pad)
no real change.
upgrade astronaut complex (should have done before killing Bill)
sixth mission: (really go into space) Rocket: BACC cranked down to TWR 2.00.
RIP Jeb.  Mk1 capsule can't take that steep an angle from 140,000m
--- 
abandoned.
Second try:
first mission, same as above.
second mission, add materials bay?, test stuff.
unlock first line, then both survivability and general rocketry
money 153,974 science 21.8 (after unlocking all of above)
unlock astronaut complex
third mission.
[unstable liquid rocket, aborted.  Bob lived.]
fourth mission.
BACC - materials bay - decoupler - heat shield - mk1 cockpit - 3 chutes.
Bill failed to get to space.  50,000m record.
fifth mission.
BACC - more fins - decoupler - swizzle motor -bunch of fins - couple of fuel tanks - materials bay - heat shield - mk1 cockpit - 3 chutes.
got into space, didn't need SAS (i.e. Bob got a lot of data).  Angle was pretty much 45 degrees, used left over fuel on the way down.
money 223,778 science 114.6
unlocked stability, advanced science.  Still have a bit of science for more.
sixth mission: clear forgotten "test" mission and add trivial "two star" test at pad mission.  Attempted to recover liquid fueled rocket, failed to recover.
seventh mission : ORBIT!
BACC - decoupler - terrier motor - two fuel tanks (TL-200, TL-400) - decoupler -heat shield - mk1 cockpit - 3 chutes.
money 252,816 - science 53.9

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by wumpus
found the spoilers, 2nd fixed parens.

[GoSlash27]

Wumpus,

 You don't *need* to upgrade the pad to use the BACC or the thumper. As I said, they just hamper how much payload you can get to orbit from an 18t pad.

 A Reliant/ Terrier combo can get you 3t to orbit for about $5100.

If you go with a BACC/ Spark combo, your payload is down to  1.2 tonnes for about $2350 and a BACC/ Terrier will only get you 0.9t for about $2550.

 The Spark/ Hammer combo can get you 1.2t for about $2250 while the Terrier/ Hammer can get you 1.3t in orbit for about $2450.

 

 So yeah... you *can* use these engines in early career, but you shouldn't if you're trying to go anywhere beyond LKO. And really they don't save you much to LKO anyway. It's like $1,100 difference for the same mission and actually going to LKO pays so much that the savings are lost in the noise floor.

Best,
-Slashy

 

 

[wumpus]

I've been wondering just what the "natural" mission progression would be (now enabled by milestone contracts) compared to what kongress hands out.  The following should match what is available as things unlock.  Some of the trickier bits are that you *need* solar panels before sending probes to moons (batteries die *just* as you need them).  Expect to visit at least one moon without conic sections (or expect to grind a bit).  Unlocking exactly the right parts is critical for this chart and expect to re-grind a few things if you miss them.  The "poor man's rover" method is discouraged (unless you need just a few science), but if you want to just grab the science on the launch pad and landing strip, go ahead.  Don't be surprised if you still need to grab a few contracts, but hopefully they will be the most profitable (example: a rescue operation netted me the kerbalnaut, the rescue contract, the docking contract??? (may have been rendezvous), and the docking milestone.  Also testing contracts give wondeful toys to play with (but try to remember to finish the test if you used them for a Duna mission.  The contract can expire before you land on Duna).

Order of mission difficulty: (used this cheat sheet: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Cheat_sheet note that I blindly followed this and expect to need plenty of reserves.)

Launch rocket: 1 m/s delta-v (use more so that you have time to do crew&goo report, also milestones).
Into space ~2000 m/s (must be manned until basic science is unlocked)
Orbit Kebin 3400 m/s (still likely manned)

Flyby probe to Mun 4160 m/s [optional, not sure if it will help unlock patched conics.  Should provide lots of science (maybe just lots of temperature readings) and make the [landing] probe to Mun irrelevant.]. 
Probe to Minmus 4526 m/s (launched to intersect at Kerbin equator.  Add up to 340 m/s for attitude adjustment or just a bit for launching to the "correct" attitude.  Also bring solar panels as batteries won't last.  - NOTE: doing this without grinding contracts will likely mean doing this without patched conics.  You may well want to just go to the Mun (which has a nice 90 degree intersection trajectory and can be done without solar paneles & SAS) instead.

Probe to Mun 5150 m/s (have extra for the descent)  [maybe you already swung by and aren't interested.  Note that solar panels are not strictly required for this one (and are for Minmus).  Unfortunately, it cuts it close (and octoprobes & SAS come with solar panels).  Don't expect to still have electricity if you use SRBs for your first stage, but it can be done without solar panels).
Probe to Duna 4490 m/s (plus lots of aerobraking.  If you can swing a bunch more you can visit Ike as well.  If you can get a contract to test kickers, you can stick a *lot* of delta-v into a terrier+full science pack).
Probe to Eve 4870 m/s (Eve's first window comes after Duna's.  Remember lots of aerobraking.  Try to hit Gilly while you are at it.)

Kerbal to Mimus 5350 m/s (except that you need a much heavier mark 1 capsule).  Includes the attitude adjustment but no provisions for non-suicide burns to land.

Kerbal to Mun 6040 m/s (again, bring more fuel to land).
Probe to Juul* (and many moons) See "school bus challenge" for description and how to do this with a delta-v budget near Eve's.  I have much less confidence in my piloting efficiency.

* I'd probably launch kerbals to Mimus/Mun while waiting for a window to Eve, and certainly before Juul.  Expect all kinds of issues with Juul if unprepared for it (solar panels being a biggie).

By this point the game's afoot.  One important thing is to get the mobile processing lab relatively early, and get it before waiting to all those windows to open up (you're stuck with the first one for Duna).  This might mean going (with Bob) to Minmus/Mun and unlocking plenty of science.  Then stuff him (and maybe another scientist) around a polar Minmus orbit (slightly higher science multiplier plus a polar orbit will work faster) and grab as much science and put it in the lab.  Watch the science fill up as you wait for launch windows.  Later you can go nuts with mobile labs on the poles (with lots of surface-gained science and 24 hour solar), and drilling rigs (lots of fuel while waiting for those windows).

Edited February 27, 2016 by wumpus
correction from Snark.

[Snark]

3 hours ago, wumpus said:

Flyby probe to Mun 4160 m/s [optional, not sure if it will help unlock patched conics.  Should provide lots of science (maybe just lots of temperature readings) and make the [landing] probe to Mun irrelevant.  Still needs solar panels.]

Actually, as long as you've got batteries unlocked, a Mun mission is doable without solar panels.  Yes, you're "on the clock" and can't do a lot of data transmission, but you can certainly fly there, land, get science, come home.

[wumpus]

20 hours ago, Snark said:

Actually, as long as you've got batteries unlocked, a Mun mission is doable without solar panels.  Yes, you're "on the clock" and can't do a lot of data transmission, but you can certainly fly there, land, get science, come home.

Corrected.  Typically I use SRBs as first stages, and  that appears to be a problem for Mun probes.  Also Minmus is right out (which might have been what I was remembering).  I also think that Mark 1 capsules store electricity better than batteries and that helps you get home.

In any event, expect to bring plenty of extra fuel.  Assuming solar panels aren't unlocked, neither is the octoprobe (unless you have a test contract), so expect to do it with a stayputnik and no SAS (hint: strongly consider making sure your first stage can burn to an apogee outside the atmosphere (and don't use a SRB, you need every joule of electricity you can get).  While a terrier might be more efficient, they tend to tumble in the atmosphere without SAS).  Also, the octo has reaction control, the stayputnik does not (expect to fire your engine in a random direction or two every time you need to orient your craft before a burn).  Finally, the stayputnik uses more power than an octo probe.  I'd feel far more comfortable going to the Mun with a contracted octo (and no solar panels) than going by stayputnik.  I'd expect to ration my electricity and be willing to deal with just the science and milestones from a flyby (do you get milestones from impacts?).

[Snark]

2 hours ago, wumpus said:

In any event, expect to bring plenty of extra fuel.  Assuming solar panels aren't unlocked, neither is the octoprobe (unless you have a test contract), so expect to do it with a stayputnik and no SAS (hint: strongly consider making sure your first stage can burn to an apogee outside the atmosphere (and don't use a SRB, you need every joule of electricity you can get).  While a terrier might be more efficient, they tend to tumble in the atmosphere without SAS).  Also, the octo has reaction control, the stayputnik does not (expect to fire your engine in a random direction or two every time you need to orient your craft before a burn).  Finally, the stayputnik uses more power than an octo probe.  I'd feel far more comfortable going to the Mun with a contracted octo (and no solar panels) than going by stayputnik.  I'd expect to ration my electricity and be willing to deal with just the science and milestones from a flyby (do you get milestones from impacts?).

 

Well, one possibility to ration electricity (though some may consider it an exploit):  just turn off all the batteries so they won't drain during the several hours it takes to cross between Kerbin and Mun.  Yes, that means the probe will go dead during that time.  But (here's the trick)... the game lets you turn batteries on even if the craft is otherwise unpowered and uncontrolled.  So you can turn off all the batteries during the "idle" time, and no electricity drain, then turn 'em back on when you need them.

That doesn't generally come up for me, because I usually take a different approach entirely:  I just send a manned mission, with a pilot at the controls, therefore no need for a probe core at all.  A manned mission with no probe core uses very little electricity-- basically, just a sip now and then to run the reaction wheels.  Even a Minmus mission is doable on batteries this way.

My first off-Kerbin landing is usually a manned Mun landing without either solar panels or patched conics.  It generates enough science that I can then unlock solar panels for a lot more operational flexibility, and a manned landing generates quite a lot of "world first" cash.

[GoSlash27]

On 2/26/2016 at 11:50 AM, wumpus said:

I've been wondering just what the "natural" mission progression would be (now enabled by milestone contracts) compared to what kongress hands out.

wumpus,

 Generally, my progression goes like this:

Science from pad and runway
Sub-orbital manned hop with science
Orbital Manned
KSC Biomes science rover
Unmanned Kerbin SoI science
Unmanned Flyby series (Mun, Minmus, escape Kerbin)
Upgrade Facilities, Rescue/Satellite contracts
Manned Minmus biomes science
Manned Munar biomes science
Manned missions to Ike and Gilly biomes/ Unmanned flyby probe to Jool system (concurrent)

After all of this, the entire game should be unlocked and you should have a fat stack of loot.
Reset strategies to convert science to funds and play it like sandbox.

Best,
-Slashy