What's the lightest "emergency spacesuit" you could have in a locker?

[SomeGuy123]

So, you know the cliche.  You have a gigantic spaceship or space station.  It's military and/or or on long interplanetary journeys, and the designers of the vessel are worried about hypervelocity fragments - possibly from enemy action or micrometeorites - hitting the ship/station when the crew are not at general quarters and wearing their suits.

I mean, we can describe it well.  All the insides are grey and dull chrome, with lights with intense shades of blue.  There are long corridors and conduits everywhere.  Ever so often in the corridors, the floor has these yellow/black warning markers for an automated door that will close in the event of pressure loss in a section.

So the klaxon goes on, an amber strobe light and a computerized voice warns you of pressure loss.  You sprint for the nearest emergency suit locker, which is easy to find because there are signs with a little pictogram of a suited astronaut pointing that way.  The locker has popped open automatically on detecting the reduced pressure.

What's in the locker?  How do you make something that you'll probably never use, it's probably about as useful as the seat cushions on an airliner for a water landing, yet still functional enough to work?  It needs to be as lightweight as you can possibly make it.  Those clear plastic "hamster balls" have the problem that you are trapped, I guess minimum functionality is that it has to save your life and allow you to move around well enough to reach another section of the ship.  

 

Edited January 22, 2016 by SomeGuy123

[Nibb31]

ACES suit ?

[kunok]

A "corset" for compressing the lungs, and an airtight helmet connected with an oxygen bottle.

And then run.

[peadar1987]

An inflatable tube, projecting through the hull. You press a button, it pops outwards, you dive in, the attachment point automatically seals the "neck" of the bag behind you with quick-acting adhesive, and pops you off into space. You've got a small, couple of kilos, life support system consisting of an oxygen bottle and CO2 scrubber, as well as a distress beacon. You are tethered to the ship to stop yourself from floating away into space, and you have a couple of hours to live until someone from another section of the ship, or a rescue vessel can pull you into an airlock and cut you out. Total mass, probably under 10kg.

[SSgt Baloo]

Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Rescue_Enclosure

[magnemoe]

Probably something like the rescue balls, if you assume only an short term stay you could skimp on the thermal insulation.
Make it more like an sleeping bag so its easier to get into and zip up. Fixed to the wall and you will either need pressure restored or an astronaut in suit pulling you into an section with pressure. As its connected to the wall you would probably draw air and power from ship too. 
Another idea in more populated areas is an pop out tent. or even an small room, this might work as an sleeping quarter or office too. 

An standard suit give mobility but take time to put on and off for any designs. more bulky suits are faster to put on as you enter more than dress them.
however with an section depressurized you can not open any door as it will depressurize that section too. 
In an combat situation I would assume everybody wore suits anyway, same with other dangerous settings like an landing. 
 

[Scotius]

Rescue ball or skinsuit. Basic cover, life support and comm system to keep you alive and let rescuers know where you are. Anything more complicated, and you start needing more and more time to put it on. Time you'll probably won't have during emergency serious and sudden enough to require spacesuit.

[Shpaget]

You need to define the requirements. For how long does it need be capable of supporting life?

If all you need is 10 seconds to reach the nearest airlock, then your own skin will do the job well enough.

You'll even survive for a bit longer than that if a friend helps by pushing your unconscious body to safety.

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, Scotius said:

Rescue ball or skinsuit. Basic cover, life support and comm system to keep you alive and let rescuers know where you are. Anything more complicated, and you start needing more and more time to put it on. Time you'll probably won't have during emergency serious and sudden enough to require spacesuit.

Now you could put the skinsuit in the rescue ball, the ball serves as cover for the suit in normal use. 

[SomeGuy123]

19 minutes ago, Shpaget said:

You need to define the requirements. For how long does it need be capable of supporting life?

If all you need is 10 seconds to reach the nearest airlock, then your own skin will do the job well enough.

You'll even survive for a bit longer than that if a friend helps by pushing your unconscious body to safety.

I want to say around 30 minutes to an hour.  Enough time to make it to an airlock to an intact section of the vehicle.  At a minimum you need to be able to use your hands, at least poorly, so you can press buttons on control panels and clamber around.  Also the life support backpacks on real spacesuits need to have a connector that is compatible with ports on the thing you are in, so if you get to a suit up locker, and the locker is depressurized so you cannot get out, you can hook up the backpack.  
 

Similarly, the actual life support "conditioners"- a big ship would have multiple "substations" that store oxygen and nitrogen and waste CO2 in compressed gas bottles "locally" (there would be compressed gas lines letting you pump those 3 gases all around between the "substations" and to the actual recycling center) would need ports on them that connect, and you need enough dexterity to be able to connect them to your suit/hamster ball with arms.  

The conditioners contain a CO2 scrubber, the heater to flush the CO2 into gas bottles, several compressor pumps to compress gas, monitoring sensors and air quality displays, heaters, air conditioners, humidity controllers...this is basically what has to be connected to every "vent" in the ship.

[Tex_NL]

How sci-fi are we talking about? Do we have artificial gravity?
Without gravity the suit won't need pants. From the arms down it can be a simple semi rigid inflated tube. Some sleeves/gloves and a fish-bowl helmet. There doesn't even have to be a difference between front/back, left/right to avoid confusion and save time.

[kunok]

3 hours ago, kunok said:

A "corset" for compressing the lungs, and an airtight helmet connected with an oxygen bottle.

And then run.

Well related from my own post, seeing that you need survive for a while and not going 50 meters until the next airlock, how long will you survive with that kind of gear?

The idea of this gear it's that you can put it like a life-jacket, in the same time, and tries to be minimal.

It's like a life-jacket in a cold ocean, it saves your life but you'll die in short time if you don't get rescued or you swim to a boat

Edited January 22, 2016 by kunok
typos

[Tex_NL]

3 minutes ago, kunok said:

Well related from my own post, seeing that you need survive for a while and not going 50 meters until the next airlock, how long will you survive with that kind of gear?

The idea of this gear it's that you can put it like a life-jacket, in the same time, and tries to be minimal.

It's like a life-jacket in a cold ocean, it saves your live but you'll die in short time if you don't get rescued or you swim to a boat

So you mean something like a survival suit? Those things are designed so in an emergency you can put it on and abandon ship within a minute.
Made from the correct material a survival suit would suffice, just add a helmet.

[*Aqua*]

3 hours ago, kunok said:

A "corset" for compressing the lungs, and an airtight helmet connected with an oxygen bottle.

This!

If there's a hull breach and air is flowing out quickly you only have about 30 to 60 seconds before you'll become unconscious. You'll lose precious seconds just for realizing what's going on, looking around, deciding what to do and flying to the next mask. Let's say this takes 10 seconds, then you have about 20 seconds left for putting the mask on.

There isn't enough time for putting on a space suit or similiar. You need to immediately take action to get air into you lungs again.

When you put on the mask you just increased you lifespan by the amount of oxygen in the tank which should be enough to even survive an hour or so in vacuum. But stay in the shadows and avoid direct sunlight. Cooling down in space takes a long time but heating by the sun is pretty fast.

Edited January 22, 2016 by *Aqua*

[kunok]

7 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

So you mean something like a survival suit? Those things are designed so in an emergency you can put it on and abandon ship within a minute.
Made from the correct material a survival suit would suffice, just add a helmet.

That's better option but it need to be pressurised (for your lungs) and it becomes a light spacesuit, so not much saving.

No, I was thinking in the typical life jacket, that you pull a string and it inflates, but instead of inflating it compresses creating the counter-presure needed for not breaking your own lungs, and for breathing. That I was trying to say when I said a "corset". With that and a helmet you can breath, but the question it's how much time can your skin stand the vacuum?

And a more ugly question, can your sphincters hold against the vacuum?

[*Aqua*]

Just now, kunok said:

the question it's how much time can your skin stand the vacuum?

Very long. Our skin is tough enough to withstand a prolonged time of vacuum, probably several days or longer.

[fredinno]

7 minutes ago, *Aqua* said:

Very long. Our skin is tough enough to withstand a prolonged time of vacuum, probably several days or longer.

Source?

[Scotius]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_activity_suit

 

I wouldn't say days. Evaporation of the water alone would be pretty dangerous. As for human sphincters...umm...they can hold it. But apparently it would be dangerous, just as holding your breath would be. So entering the vacuum one should actually, well - release the gas, so to speak LOL

[radonek]

3 hours ago, SomeGuy123 said:

I mean, we can describe it well.  All the insides are grey and dull chrome, with lights with intense shades of blue.  There are long corridors and conduits everywhere.

Not really. Do your kerbal ships feature long corridors? Of course not, its a waste. Even if it's really big ship/station most of it will be "outside", unpressurized. 

 

3 hours ago, SomeGuy123 said:

So the klaxon goes on, an amber strobe light and a computerized voice warns you of pressure loss.  You sprint for the nearest emergency suit locker...

No, you don't, for exactly same reasons sailors don't run for diving suits in this situation.  If you can see the stars through hole, you are already dead. If you have time for donning a suit, you'd spend that time much better jogging to closest pressure doors.

Even if you really really need long corridors and big spaces, you dount need to waste time with emergency suits everywhere. Those rooms need some life support equipment anyway, you just need a way to isolate them. So, instead of pointers to emergency suit lockers, you have reasonably sized rooms designated with "emergency shelter" sign. You hear hissing, you dive for closest one and hope there is something to read there. Actual space suits are complicated and tricky stuff and take hours to don properly.

[wizzlebippi]

11 minutes ago, radonek said:

Not really. Do your kerbal ships feature long corridors? Of course not, its a waste. Even if it's really big ship/station most of it will be "outside", unpressurized. 

 

No, you don't, for exactly same reasons sailors don't run for diving suits in this situation.  If you can see the stars through hole, you are already dead. If you have time for donning a suit, you'd spend that time much better jogging to closest pressure doors.

Even if you really really need long corridors and big spaces, you dount need to waste time with emergency suits everywhere. Those rooms need some life support equipment anyway, you just need a way to isolate them. So, instead of pointers to emergency suit lockers, you have reasonably sized rooms designated with "emergency shelter" sign. You hear hissing, you dive for closest one and hope there is something to read there. Actual space suits are complicated and tricky stuff and take hours to don properly.

Exactly. As a point of reference, the average adult has about 5-10 seconds of useful consciousness when suddenly exposed to an altitude of 35,000 feet or higher. It's a consistent time because you're racing how quickly oxygen can boil out of your blood. Pilots and other flight crew train to put on a mask within the first 5 seconds in the event of decompression. In this situation, unless this survival device is on you or within reach and quickly donable, you're dead. Even if it's a quick don helmet or something like that, you're likely only buying a few minutes at most to get to a shelter.

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, Scotius said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_activity_suit

 

I wouldn't say days. Evaporation of the water alone would be pretty dangerous. As for human sphincters...umm...they can hold it. But apparently it would be dangerous, just as holding your breath would be. So entering the vacuum one should actually, well - release the gas, so to speak LOL

Problem with the skinsuit is that it has to fit very well. probably tailored, its also slow to put on. 
Now put an coverall on top for thermal and mechanical protection if needed. 

Holding your breath is dangeous, this is also true then acceding during scuba diving, 

[*Aqua*]

2 hours ago, fredinno said:

Source?

 

Quote

The third and final test, Excelsior III, was made on August 16, 1960. During the ascent, the pressure seal in Kittinger's right glove failed, and he began to experience severe pain in his right hand from the exposure of his hand to the extreme low pressure. (See Effects of vacuum on humans.) He decided not to inform the ground crew about this, in case they should decide to abort the test. Despite temporarily losing the use of his right hand, he continued with the ascent, climbing to an altitude of 102,800 feet (31,333 m).^[3] The ascent took one hour and 31 minutes and broke the previous manned balloon altitude record of 101,516 feet (30,942 m), which was set by Major David Simons as part of Project Manhigh in 1957. Kittinger stayed at peak altitude for 12 minutes, waiting for the balloon to drift over the landing target area. He then stepped out of the gondola to begin his descent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excelsior#Test_jumps
The hand was unpressured for about one hour.

 

Quote

[...] Blood and other body fluids do boil when their pressure drops below 6.3 kPa (47 Torr), the vapor pressure of water at body temperature.^[9] This condition is called ebullism.^[10] The steam may bloat the body to twice its normal size and slow circulation, but tissues are elastic and porous enough to prevent rupture.^[11] [...]
A short-term exposure to vacuum of up to 30 seconds is unlikely to cause permanent physical damage.^[13] Animal experiments show that rapid and complete recovery is normal for exposures shorter than 90 seconds, while longer full-body exposures are fatal and resuscitation has never been successful.^[14][15] There is only a limited amount of data available from human accidents, but it is consistent with animal data. Limbs may be exposed for much longer if breathing is not impaired.^[9] Rapid decompression can be much more dangerous than vacuum exposure itself. Even if the victim does not hold their breath, venting through the windpipe may be too slow to prevent the fatal rupture of the delicate alveoli of the lungs.^[9]Eardrums and sinuses may be ruptured by rapid decompression, soft tissues may bruise and seep blood, [...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_spaceflight_on_the_human_body#The_vacuum_of_space

Normal skin can withstand vacuum. Soft tissue can do it too but there might be some bruises. But most of the soft tissues are in your mouth, nose and eyes and that's what you want to cover with a pressurized mask anyway.

Edited January 22, 2016 by *Aqua*

[RainDreamer]

So my creative/crazy idea: Instead of a suit, it will be a breathable liquid bomb. In an emergency, this is blasted into the place by emergency system, forming giant bubbles that envelops anything in the area, including the crew. The liquid itself would provide some limited protection while also allow for limited breathing, so they can wait for rescue in a short while. This would literally take seconds to deploy. This will likely damage the crew lungs and other delicate body parts, but if it keeps them alive...

[*Aqua*]

If you damage your lungs it is very likely you won't stay alive for long.

Also what's keeping the bubbles from exploding?

[Red Fang]

When you say big ship, In terms of size, I am thinking ISS, with a larger crew of up to 10-12 people. 
1st layer of damage control: seal your compartment.
Each compartment can be sealed, and has independent life support for several hours/days. It contains several pressure suits with several hours of life support.  
2nd layer od DC is to get to a refuge. 
Each crew bunk can be sealed and has several hours of life support, and contains a pressure suit. 
3rd layer of DC is to get into a pressure suit and evacuate/fix damage if you were not in the suit before hull breach.
Pressure suits are are made to be donned and doffed in a pressurized environment, they should allow enough freedom of movement to operate basic ship functions, move through the ship and perform minimal repairs. 
Suit autonomy of several hours should not be a problem. (Chest-mounted diving re-breathers regularly have 3h+ scrubber and oxygen supply @ ~6m depth.) Sokol suit is about 10kg and a pack with a decent battery/O₂/CO₂ can probably be under 10kg, detachable and small in size. If you are flying in interplanetary/stellar combat craft or such, I would wager that you can make a good version of one-size-fits-all version of Sokol, with better ergonomics, mobility and bring its weight down by several kg.  

Specifically for combat ships I'd pursue a uniform for which you'd use a mechanical counter-pressure suit that is self-tightening on command. Such command could be issued by a pressure switch, manual switch, or by putting on a helmet. External packs with life support could be distributed all around the ship, while a small life support pack with 15-30min of air supply and CO₂ scrubbing capacity could be carried around at all times, somewhere on your body or as an integral part of your helmet. Judging by info available on MIT BioSuit, we may be years to decades away from a working model, and even further away from an advanced model described in this paragraph. However, we are much further away from developing manned warships/torchships etc. so suit technology should not be a problem.  

Edited January 22, 2016 by Red Fang
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