The Definitive KSP Speedrun.

[BagelRabbit]

Hello everyone! My name is Upsilon.

There have been several attempts to "speedrun" the game of Kerbal Space Program, but most of them took place in previous versions (IIRC). So I suppose it's time to start a new speedrun challenge!

Speedrunning KSP!
(not for the faint of heart)
~~~

Okay, so here's the deal. Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to build a rocket and fly to the Mun and back, landing on KSC ground, over the least amount of real time (not in-game!) you possibly can.

~~~

Run Rules

Here's what a run should look like. Rules italicized and bolded 'cause they're important. Please read carefully!

1. Enter the game. Crack your knuckles or drink an energy drink if you want to. Start recording: you're gonna need a video of this to qualify.
2. Create a new save in sandbox mode. For the record, all runs must start on a fresh save at 0h 0m of game time. This ensures that the Mun is in the same place every time.
   1. You can use the same save for multiple runs, as long as the in-game time is still 0h 0m after reverting and you delete your ship in the VAB between runs.
3. As soon as you click start, start the timer (more on that later). The run begins when the KSC pops up.
4. Click on the VAB (or SPH, if you really want to.) Build a Mun-capable ship as fast as you possibly can. Your ship must have a minimum of one Kerbal, by the way. When you're ready, click "Launch."
5. Run time stops the moment you click "launch" and resumes when the craft's physics have loaded on the pad. 
6. Fly your ship up. Time-warp is encouraged. Go to the Mun and land! Once you have landed, you must plant a flag. You don't have to write anything of note on the placard though. Then get your Kerbal back into the rocket.
   1. Your rocket must be on the surface of the Mun over the time of the Kerbal's departure to the time of his arrival back inside the craft.
7. Take off from the Mun and head home. Hopefully you don't go screaming through the atmosphere too fast! 
8. You must land on the little light-colored spit of land that makes up the KSC grounds. It's okay if you land on a building or something, but it won't net you extra points.
   1. "Landing" is defined as waiting 'til your craft is at 0.0 m/s.
   2. You can lose all the parts you want upon landing, but the Kerbal must remain in his capsule and survive.
9. Once you have landed, stop the timer. Nice job! You did a run.
10. If you aren't too close to the KSC proper, you should probably right-click on your capsule and get a report after you've stopped the timer. If the report says you're on KSC grounds, then woohoo! You did it.

Okay, so now that we've gotten that part out of the way, it's time for - you guessed it! - more rules. Sorry.

~~~

General Game Rules

If I could summarize this section in a sentence, it would be: "You can have mods installed on your system, but for the most part, you can't use 'em."

1. No Mods! This includes every single mod out there, unfortunately.
2. No using the debug menu, for goodness' sake! There shouldn't be anything in there that you need.
3. No setting up a custom category with all the parts you need. Keep in mind, this should be a fresh install.

~~~

Video and Timing

As mentioned before, you'll need to make a video of your adventures. You'll also need to time them. But never fear! These things aren't hard to do. You can even get the time after the run! In fact, it might be easier that way.

If you have a video-taking program already, use it! If not, Open Broadcast Software is a free recording platform that's plenty good enough for a silly little video like this. (You could also get the trial versions of Bandicam or Fraps or something.)

Here are some ways of getting the time, from hardest to easiest:

Hardest - Actually download some software program that allows you to time your runs automatically. You can put one of these on your video. Quite frankly, you don't need to.
A bit easier - Record your entire screen. Put a non-full-screen KSP monitor on one side and a stopwatch on the other (you can Google "stopwatch" and it'll give you the time to within a hundredth of a second). Just remember to start and stop the time when appropriate.
The Easiest - Wait until the video's done, then look at the length of it. Almost any editing program allows you to cut the video at the beginning or end and gives the duration of clips. (You just won't immediately know whether you've beat your PB or even broken a record.) If you're doing it this way, please insert a text box at the end of the video that says the amount of time the run took. Please don't try to "shave off" a couple of seconds here; I'll probably notice and disqualify that particular run.

I should note that you only need to report your time to the nearest second. Higher amounts of precision are fine, but they'll be rounded up or down to the nearest second in the final tally. (A score of 12:20.53 would tie with a score of 12:21.29.)

You only need to post a video and write your best time to submit a score for this challenge. Videos should preferably be uploaded via YouTube. (If you want to regale us with some stories, feel free to do that as well!)

~~~

A Final Note

On some previous speedrun challenges, many people noted that speedruns were unfair to those with slow computers. The faster loading times of KSP 1.0.5 have helped a little with this, but it still may be a problem.

To reduce lag and waiting times, feel free to turn down the graphics quality, game resolution, or anything else that could potentially result in the game lagging. If you really care about getting a good speedrun, it may also be best to do this challenge without any mods. Remember that this is merely a friendly competition, though, and that even if you don't get the world record due to lag, you still may impress the pants off of some people.

Oh, and let me know if the rules need any clarification or expanding, please! I am a mere mortal and am prone to getting things wrong. (Also, if you could make some sort of graphic for this challenge, that would be great.)

~~~

Leaderboard:

Current World Record
(your name here!) - (your time here!)

#2 - (your name here!) - (your time here!)
#3 - (your name here!) - (your time here!)
#4 - (your name here!) - (your time here!)
#5 - (your name here!) - (your time here!)

Honorable Mentions:

(None yet!)

~~~

Have fun, don't die, and good luck!

-Upsilon

Edited February 5, 2016 by UpsilonAerospace
Changing rules slightly.

[RA3236]

Well, that's me out, I can't handle uploading or watching videos with my internet.

Sweet challenge though, I think my record was five minutes to Minmus and then back...

[SpaceplaneAddict]

#SSTOThisUpInHereeeeer!

[BagelRabbit]

I apologize for the bump, but I'd love to see someone try this...!

Takers?

[zolotiyeruki]

Hmmm.  This sounds interesting.  The idea of construction also counting as part of the time is interesting--it'll push people toward simpler (fewer parts) craft and some pre-planning.

Are mods like Kerbal Engineer and Kerbal Alarm Clock allowed?  They're not part mods per se.  What about mechjeb, which can do burns automatically?

Edited February 2, 2016 by zolotiyeruki

[zarakon]

IMO you should just say no mods at all for something like this

[BagelRabbit]

20 hours ago, zolotiyeruki said:

Hmmm.  This sounds interesting.  The idea of construction also counting as part of the time is interesting--it'll push people toward simpler (fewer parts) craft and some pre-planning.

Are mods like Kerbal Engineer and Kerbal Alarm Clock allowed?  They're not part mods per se.  What about mechjeb, which can do burns automatically?

The idea of my mod rules is essentially that you may not use mods that give you a leg up over people playing stock KSP. In my opinion, all three of the mods you mentioned could lead to faster runs, meaning that they should not be used... 

18 hours ago, zarakon said:

IMO you should just say no mods at all for something like this

...but at the same time, there are some perfectly fine mods for this challenge. Mods that add a different 'look' to the game (Kerbal-texturing, part-texturing, atmospheric, planet-retexturing, and the like) would be okay. So would mods that have no bearing on the speedrun challenge (contract-replacement runs, for example), mods that fix parts of the game (Claw's stock bugfixes and such), and "cute" mods like the squeaky-toy Kerbal one. I'm even allowing part mods on the install, although you can't use 'em on your speedrun craft and it may make it a little harder to find the requisite stock parts.

In short, there are so many different types of mods that I'm in a bit of a catch-22. If I forbid all mods, people will say, "I only have EVE installed (or something); can I still participate?" If I allow some mods, people will say, "it would be better if this was a stock challenge." I'm doing my best to compromise. 

Still waiting eagerly to see some speedruns! Give it a shot if you have the chance. Even if your run is three hours, it'll still be a world record if no one else participates... 

-Upsilon

[DoctorDavinci]

This isn't a challenge of skill so much as a test of an individuals computing power.

People with slower computers will have slower times even if they do exactly the same thing, down to the letter, as another person on a faster computer.

[MathigNihilcehk]

There are a number of problems with this challenge. 1: Various computer load times heavily effect your game speed. 2: You didn't attempt your own challenge. 3: There is nothing spectacularly new or innovative about this style of speedrun. 4: etc.?
Some improvements you could make to it include.

1: Finding a way to factor out the computational power. For example, you could allow people to compile their in-game time and time-acceleration factors to adjust for time-dilation. (divide the run into segments every time you switch time acceleration factors. For simplicity you must round each segment to the nearest 10th of a second of your footage. Take the in-game time of each segment and divide it by the acceleration factor. You now have a time that is independent of your computer slowing down the computations.). Another option is to cut any loading screen time from the total time (although NOT from the footage).

2: Attempt the challenge.

3: 1) would provide some innovation to the run. Another idea is to do this in career mode. That would be a lot more interesting, because you would have to get enough science/contracts to go to the moon and do so in a short period of time. Although you would probably want to outlaw the booster glitch, if it still works (stacking boosters head-tail without decouplers).

4: Also... just make it stock only. Do it! Otherwise, you'll find people who somehow find an advantage to having some mod or another. IE part mods. Even if you don't use the parts, you can install a part mod that repositions the parts to make it easier to build your spaceship. In all honesty, no one would care if you told them they can't have their precious texture mod for a speed run... this is a speed run, you are an idiot for asking for a texture mod that will make your game run SLOWER. If it makes your game run faster, then you are giving yourself an unfair advantage. No you can't get rid of bugs, because that essentially changes the game. It's critical to have a fair playing field, if you're going to have this.

Edited February 5, 2016 by MathigNihilcehk

[Moesly_Armlis]

This looks very interesting and I want to try it too.

The speedrun challenge would be unfair with slower machines.  The same issue arose in the Forty Two Minute challenge.  The only change I can suggest is score according to the kerbal time instead of actual time.  Kerbal time runs the same no matter what the potato. 

Only exception is factoring in the vessel construction time.  When in the VAB/SPH the time is recorded on video and added to the kerbal time.  Make it a bonus by allowing a default construction time (average time it takes you to build a vessel) and participants can opt to add the video to improve the default construction time.

Hope this is helpful.

[zarakon]

I want to submit something for this challenge...  In fact, a couple weeks ago after not playing for months I decided to do almost this exact thing on a whim - start from nothing, take 3 guys to the Mun, and come back.  It took me ~45 minutes, but I went into it without any sort of plan and wasn't really rushing anything.

The big stumbling block for me though is the requirement to land at the KSC grounds.  Ever since the aero updates, I just haven't had the sort of accuracy to do that with any degree of reliability

[BagelRabbit]

22 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

This isn't a challenge of skill so much as a test of an individuals computing power.

People with slower computers will have slower times even if they do exactly the same thing, down to the letter, as another person on a faster computer.

This isn't true.

I've made this challenge with the assumption that people are able to play KSP at 30fps at minimal resolution with all of the settings lowered. Most ships that will be built for this challenge will probably have fewer than 20 parts. It's entirely possible to do about 80-90% of the mission in mapview mode (the only times you need to be viewing the vessel are during the Mun landing and the Kerbin landing), which makes computers run even faster. Finally, after some careful consideration, I've decided to make the challenge stock (will update in a minute), which means yet less lag.

I have a feeling the majority of people will be able to run KSP relatively smoothly given these parameters. If they can't... well, I'm not willing to change the parameters of this challenge for it, as it would completely change the intent of the challenge (as seen below). The only thing I'd be willing to do is stop the clock when you click "launch" and start it again when physics is loaded on the pad/when you lift off.

14 hours ago, MathigNihilcehk said:

There are a number of problems with this challenge. 1: Various computer load times heavily effect your game speed. 2: You didn't attempt your own challenge. 3: There is nothing spectacularly new or innovative about this style of speedrun. 4: etc.?
Some improvements you could make to it include.

1: Finding a way to factor out the computational power. For example, you could allow people to compile their in-game time and time-acceleration factors to adjust for time-dilation. (divide the run into segments every time you switch time acceleration factors. For simplicity you must round each segment to the nearest 10th of a second of your footage. Take the in-game time of each segment and divide it by the acceleration factor. You now have a time that is independent of your computer slowing down the computations.). Another option is to cut any loading screen time from the total time (although NOT from the footage).

2: Attempt the challenge.

3: 1) would provide some innovation to the run. Another idea is to do this in career mode. That would be a lot more interesting, because you would have to get enough science/contracts to go to the moon and do so in a short period of time. Although you would probably want to outlaw the booster glitch, if it still works (stacking boosters head-tail without decouplers).

4: Also... just make it stock only. Do it! Otherwise, you'll find people who somehow find an advantage to having some mod or another. IE part mods. Even if you don't use the parts, you can install a part mod that repositions the parts to make it easier to build your spaceship. In all honesty, no one would care if you told them they can't have their precious texture mod for a speed run... this is a speed run, you are an idiot for asking for a texture mod that will make your game run SLOWER. If it makes your game run faster, then you are giving yourself an unfair advantage. No you can't get rid of bugs, because that essentially changes the game. It's critical to have a fair playing field, if you're going to have this.

1. See above.

You're basically saying that the run should be dependent on how long the craft took to do its job in-game. The problem is, this favors carefully planning maneuver nodes, time-warping down to 1x whenever you have the chance, and making a rocket that can reach the Mun faster. This would also almost completely eliminate the need to build fast in the VAB unless further rules were added (and there are enough rules as-is!): if a ship takes 20 minutes to build but can get you to the Mun 30 minutes faster, that's a net gain. It shouldn't be.

2. You are referencing a rule that generally applies to very difficult challenges that may not be possible/practical/able to be completed in any amount of time. I know for a fact that it's possible to land on the Mun and return to the KSC: I've seen several people do it. Sure, they took their time, but there's nothing preventing anyone from doing it faster.

3. Doing this challenge in career mode would be a lot of fun! It would also make the challenge quite different. Maybe that should be something to try in another challenge, but not this one.

I should also note that this challenge is closely based on another one that was made a while back. Aphobius (who created the challenge, I think) ended up taking the WR at 2:08. The video is pretty amazing, even if he doesn't have the best taste on music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-aVqXpv6TA

4.After careful consideration of your comment and others' comments, I think this challenge should be done with a stock install. You're probably right. (Of course, now there'll be a whole other camp of people complaining, but I'm okay with that, honestly.)

12 hours ago, MoeslyArmlis said:

This looks very interesting and I want to try it too.

The speedrun challenge would be unfair with slower machines.  The same issue arose in the Forty Two Minute challenge.  The only change I can suggest is score according to the kerbal time instead of actual time.  Kerbal time runs the same no matter what the potato. 

Only exception is factoring in the vessel construction time.  When in the VAB/SPH the time is recorded on video and added to the kerbal time.  Make it a bonus by allowing a default construction time (average time it takes you to build a vessel) and participants can opt to add the video to improve the default construction time.

Hope this is helpful.

See above, above. 

2 hours ago, zarakon said:

I want to submit something for this challenge...  In fact, a couple weeks ago after not playing for months I decided to do almost this exact thing on a whim - start from nothing, take 3 guys to the Mun, and come back.  It took me ~45 minutes, but I went into it without any sort of plan and wasn't really rushing anything.

The big stumbling block for me though is the requirement to land at the KSC grounds.  Ever since the aero updates, I just haven't had the sort of accuracy to do that with any degree of reliability

Yep, that's going to be the kicker. It's entirely possible to do the speedrun in such a way that a single burn from the Mun will land you at the KSC. More realistically, though, it might be easier to burn into LKO and then wait for the right time to deorbit. This will add an increased layer of complexity to the challenge, but that's just part of the fun!

Updating OP now.

-Upsilon

Edited February 5, 2016 by UpsilonAerospace

[Jhawk1099]

I would love to do this but my video recording software only goes to ten minutes and I dont think I can do an entire trip to the moon in that time. Would having a little break or two disqualify me? 

[BagelRabbit]

15 minutes ago, Jhawk1099 said:

I would love to do this but my video recording software only goes to ten minutes and I dont think I can do an entire trip to the moon in that time. Would having a little break or two disqualify me? 

Sure, go for it! Just be sure to start and stop the video within a second or two. (It would be especially nice if you did this during portions of the run like coasting in orbit, coasting towards the Mun, etc. where it would be pretty obvious if you cut out a large chunk. I'm sure you won't cheat, but it's nice to have proof. )

[Starwhip]

On 1/29/2016 at 2:42 PM, UpsilonAerospace said:

• Click on the VAB (or SPH, if you really want to.) Build a Mun-capable ship as fast as you possibly can. Your ship must have a minimum of one Kerbal, by the way. When you're ready, click "Launch."

Does this mean a "new ship"? Or is the intent to come out of the VAB with a Mun-capable ship, by any means? Because I remember doing a Mun launch and return with the stock Kerbal X. I do FIRST Robotics, as you know. I look for loopholes in stuff all. Day. Long. XD

If it's the first, I would have specified the loading of any stock craft (Barring misclicks) a disqualification, since one might also take the lifter part of the Kerbal X, for example, subassembly it, and make a new capsule setup for it, which would be a "new ship".

[Jhawk1099]

45 minutes ago, UpsilonAerospace said:

Sure, go for it! Just be sure to start and stop the video within a second or two. (It would be especially nice if you did this during portions of the run like coasting in orbit, coasting towards the Mun, etc. where it would be pretty obvious if you cut out a large chunk. I'm sure you won't cheat, but it's nice to have proof. )

Ok cool. I'll get on it.

[regex]

This looks like a fun challenge but I'd have to practice landing at KSC since I don't actually care about that in actual campaigns...

Also, bone stock...  Why can't I use Texture Replacer?  The default skybox is horrendous...

[MathigNihilcehk]

6 hours ago, regex said:

This looks like a fun challenge but I'd have to practice landing at KSC since I don't actually care about that in actual campaigns..

That IS the hardest part.  With something like Mech-jeb it's easy. Otherwise... not so much. Even if you have enough dV to do something like that, precision aiming is a pain, especially if you have to do it in a short period of time.

Can I use quicksaves? If so, it'd make the challenge a tad easier, maybe.

[MathigNihilcehk]

Well, I've finished a first attempt of this... 1 hour 24 minutes, 55 seconds. I could upload it to YouTube, but I'm definitely not proud of that time :P... I had to re-do the mun landing a seven times and the kerbin landing twice. I mean, my potential 85 minute record isn't that awesome, but consider that if I got the landings on the first try I'd be closer to 34 minutes. I guess I could try bigger rocket + bigger lander, for stability...

The longest part is the pin-point accuracy return. I suppose if you did it right, you could figure out where/when to burn on the mun to go directly to KSC. The best I've found is if you circularize to 100km then you can methodically land close to KSC. However, this means you can't "just" leave mun and land straight on Kerbin. You have to leave mun with enough dV to re-orbit Kerbin.

My current rocket has around 3200-3500 dV in atmosphere, 3100 to get to and land on the Mun and 2625 to take off, orbit kerbin, and land.

Edited February 6, 2016 by MathigNihilcehk

[BagelRabbit]

21 hours ago, Starwhip said:

Does this mean a "new ship"? Or is the intent to come out of the VAB with a Mun-capable ship, by any means? Because I remember doing a Mun launch and return with the stock Kerbal X. I do FIRST Robotics, as you know. I look for loopholes in stuff all. Day. Long. XD

If it's the first, I would have specified the loading of any stock craft (Barring misclicks) a disqualification, since one might also take the lifter part of the Kerbal X, for example, subassembly it, and make a new capsule setup for it, which would be a "new ship".

No using the stock craft! Thanks for finding the loophole. I'll add it to the OP in a bit.

16 hours ago, regex said:

This looks like a fun challenge but I'd have to practice landing at KSC since I don't actually care about that in actual campaigns...

Also, bone stock...  Why can't I use Texture Replacer?  The default skybox is horrendous...

...if you read the discussion above, you'll probably find it rather amusing.

I originally had the challenge include mods such as Texture Replacer, but there was a lot of grumbling about "this should be a stock challenge!" I originally addressed these issues by saying,

Quote

If I forbid all mods, people will say, "I only have EVE installed (or something); can I still participate?" If I allow some mods, people will say, "it would be better if this was a stock challenge." I'm doing my best to compromise. 

...After some more people asking to make the thing stock-only, though, I agreed. Of course, now the other side's on my tail.

Let me say this: even though it's not technically allowed, I certainly won't disqualify you if you use Texture Replacer. 

10 hours ago, MathigNihilcehk said:

That IS the hardest part.  With something like Mech-jeb it's easy. Otherwise... not so much. Even if you have enough dV to do something like that, precision aiming is a pain, especially if you have to do it in a short period of time.

Can I use quicksaves? If so, it'd make the challenge a tad easier, maybe.

Yes. I'll add that rule to the books.

Of course, quicksaves take more time to do, so I'm hoping that someone will eventually be able to do it in one go. In the meantime, though, I can see how that would be helpful.

I think quicksave rules may have to operate in the same way that the rules-of-getting-to-the-launchpad work, namely that time stops when you press F9 and starts up again when physics loads again. I hope this is okay with everyone.

3 hours ago, MathigNihilcehk said:

Well, I've finished a first attempt of this... 1 hour 24 minutes, 55 seconds. I could upload it to YouTube, but I'm definitely not proud of that time :P... I had to re-do the mun landing a seven times and the kerbin landing twice. I mean, my potential 85 minute record isn't that awesome, but consider that if I got the landings on the first try I'd be closer to 34 minutes. I guess I could try bigger rocket + bigger lander, for stability...

The longest part is the pin-point accuracy return. I suppose if you did it right, you could figure out where/when to burn on the mun to go directly to KSC. The best I've found is if you circularize to 100km then you can methodically land close to KSC. However, this means you can't "just" leave mun and land straight on Kerbin. You have to leave mun with enough dV to re-orbit Kerbin.

My current rocket has around 3200-3500 dV in atmosphere, 3100 to get to and land on the Mun and 2625 to take off, orbit kerbin, and land.

Congratulations! I won't add your time to the leaderboard, but I'll be eagerly waiting for a video from you. 

There's probably some "sweet spot" where you can burn from 100km and land on KSC grounds every time. As you said, it's probably possible to burn from the Mun and land at the KSC too, especially if you have the delta-V for a large-ish midcourse correction. I'm looking forward to the ways people discover to land at KSC; I have a feeling someone will discover something to help with this.

-Upsilon

[Jhawk1099]

So I did it.... kinda. I didn't land on the KSC grounds but I couldn't change my trajectory in a capsule so yeah I might try again. My time was 21 minutes 3 seconds and 52 hundredths so it rounds up to 21:4. If anyone knows how I could have fixed the later bit then please either quote me here or comment on the video please.

https://youtu.be/ne8xux-vSN0 

[Moesly_Armlis]

Have to admit this is a fun challenge.  I need a change from my HtoV design failures and decided to try this challenge last night.  The vessel after assembling (in the VAB) is landing on Mun in under 15 minutes.  For tonight work begins on the precision return. 

As long as the MET indicator is green then I figure my time is running the same as everyone else.  So that means pointing the camera up during launch or switching over to map mode, I would even have to say the IVA would provide better physics-frame rate.  Landing is also faster in IVA because the radar altimeter can help with the suicide burn.  The launch profile-time is ensuring the same landing area which is one thing good going for me which is nice.

The return trips have been unsuccessful but I did come close to KSC once.  Earlier attempts for returning I was using sans heat shield and using the engine to decelerate.  The heatshield is on but going to try with zero abalator first and use four 24-77 Twitch engines that help with de-acceleration. 

Edited February 8, 2016 by MoeslyArmlis

[Moesly_Armlis]

After a few attempts and modifications to the vessel the run is being completed in under twenty minutes.  This album is showing my fist successful attempt with a seventeen minute voyage.

For the return KSC was still in darkness, so I adjusted the orbit and went around and returned with KSC in the light.  Final deceleration burn that adjusted the landing trajectory.  Opened chutes below 1000 metre and planted hard in the KSC green zone.  Next up is the video.  This was a delightful distraction.

[Moesly_Armlis]

Finished the Mun speed run challenge.

Here is the Mun Speed Run video.

 

 

There is room for improving the time.

@Jhawk1099 you did well in your video. Redo and make the KSC landing otherwise it is going to be lonely in here.

Edited February 10, 2016 by MoeslyArmlis

[SanderB]

https://youtu.be/da_3PRt8Uv8

I made the KSC grounds, in 13m 49s I believe.

Recap: design simple vessel, burn straight up to mun, land, return to LKO, nearly eliminate orbital velocity above KSC.

Edited February 12, 2016 by SanderB
can't use preview