The Void UPDATE I'm done with this 1/4/17

[Bill Phil]

12 hours ago, Atlas2342 said:

But in the one Spaceception posted its "U"...

Chapter 1; The Discovery

Robert Baker was in his mid-forties with graying brown hair and a slightly lined face. He graduated from the U of Hawaii with a master's in astronomy, and got a job at a local observatory where he and his team studied pulsars, neutron stars, quasars, and black holes. His team of 27 people mainly cataloged newly discovered objects, but they sometimes looked for the objects themselves. Robert was also looked at as one of the most influential people in the state, as he and his team were some of the best in Hawaii.

I'm not the only guy who helped proofread.

[Atlas2342]

Hey, Spaceception, the first chapter you posted here, is it the final one? If thats the case, I'll change it to what Bill Phil wrote...

Edit: Oops nevermind, it was my mistake in the first place, sorry...

Edit: Fixed it, sorry...

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Atlas2342

[Spaceception]

Just now, Atlas2342 said:

Hey, Spaceception, the first chapter you posted here, is it the final one? If thats the case, I'll change it to what Bill Phil wrote...

Edit: Oops nevermind, it was my mistake in the first place, sorry...

Edit: Fixed it, sorry...

 

Not the final product, when I publish it to kindle )Probably) I'll likely make it 3x longer

So when I do that )Probably late this year/early next year) I'll need help with that as well.

[Atlas2342]

3 hours ago, Spaceception said:

So when I do that )Probably late this year/early next year) I'll need help with that as well.

Happy to help...

[Spaceception]

Update! Over two fifths of the way done!

[KSK]

On 17 March 2016 at 5:41 PM, Spaceception said:

Update! Over two fifths of the way done!

Cool! Looking forward to it.

 

[Spaceception]

I'm three fifths of the way done, and the second chapter should be up before the 10th of April

Edited March 28, 2016 by Spaceception

[fredinno]

On 3/28/2016 at 7:42 AM, Spaceception said:

I'm three fifths of the way done, and the second chapter should be up before the 10th of April

Hey, I don't know if you implemented this, but you should probably be building the interstellar spacecraft closest to the Sun as possible using Vulcanian asteroids (+Jupiter flyby?) thus making as much use of the oberth effect as possible- and use maybe a gravity assist to slow down on approach.

[Spaceception]

Just now, fredinno said:

Hey, I don't know if you implemented this, but you should probably be building the interstellar spacecraft closest to the Sun as possible using Vulcanian asteroids (+Jupiter flyby?) thus making as much use of the oberth effect as possible- and use maybe a gravity assist to slow down on approach.

I think that would only be useful for interplanetary spacecraft using chemical fuels, not interstellar journeys using slow accelerating fusion engines, but if you have a trajectory towards Lalande 21185 for something like that where the added velocity is actually useful, you can PM me (Using a simplified description)

Also, instead of building near the Sun, how about accelerating towards the Sun?

Edited March 30, 2016 by Spaceception

[fredinno]

12 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

I think that would only be useful for interplanetary spacecraft using chemical fuels, not interstellar journeys using slow accelerating fusion engines, but if you have a trajectory towards Lalande 21185 for something like that where the added velocity is actually useful, you can PM me (Using a simplified description)

Also, instead of building near the Sun, how about accelerating towards the Sun?

Accelerating towards the sun needs too much delta v (direct) or time (bi-elliptical transfer)

And it depends on how slow you accelerate. Since your acceleration is 1 G or so, that's probably plenty to make launch near the Sun worth it.

 

Wasn't it Wolf 359 you were working with? Either way, I can see why you chose Lalande 21185 (low chance of tidal locking, not too big, and not binary), but the high inclination of the star could really use a gravity assist to get to

Unfortunately, there are no stars nearby to do a gravity assist on the way to Lalande...

[Spaceception]

Just now, fredinno said:

Accelerating towards the sun needs too much delta v (direct) or time (bi-elliptical transfer)

And it depends on how slow you accelerate. Since your acceleration is 1 G or so, that's probably plenty to make launch near the Sun worth it.

 

Wasn't it Wolf 359 you were working with? Either way, I can see why you chose Lalande 21185 (low chance of tidal locking, not too big, and not binary), but the high inclination of the star could really use a gravity assist to get to

Unfortunately, there are no stars nearby to do a gravity assist on the way to Lalande...

Well, the colonists in question use SSTOs to get to Geostationary orbit to the Starship, so do you know how big one would have to be to get to like Mercurys orbit or something?

Yeah, that's why I switched to Lalande

[Bill Phil]

1 hour ago, fredinno said:

Hey, I don't know if you implemented this, but you should probably be building the interstellar spacecraft closest to the Sun as possible using Vulcanian asteroids (+Jupiter flyby?) thus making as much use of the oberth effect as possible- and use maybe a gravity assist to slow down on approach.

It takes more energy to build it there than to build it in LEO and launch it.

[Spaceception]

I think the planet could look like one of these;

A planet with roughly the same land water ratio as Earth with a lot of plant life and very little desert.

A planet with little water and lots of desert with little plant life.

Or a planet with little water and lots of plant life.

There's a very good chance I'll be able to get Space Engine in the next few weeks, so I'll come back with a much better looking example

 

 

I put the first chapter onto google docs, and it's a bit over 12 pages long, in a couple months I'd like to extend it to 18 pages, but for now it'll do, anyway, when I'm finished it'll likely have 176 to 190 pages, not exactly novel type, but for my first novel I think that's pretty good

Edited March 30, 2016 by Spaceception

[fredinno]

2 hours ago, Spaceception said:

Well, the colonists in question use SSTOs to get to Geostationary orbit to the Starship, so do you know how big one would have to be to get to like Mercurys orbit or something?

Yeah, that's why I switched to Lalande

SSTOs to GEO are going to be way too big. Use a SSTO to LEO, and a reusable Space tug to GEO.

1 hour ago, Bill Phil said:

It takes more energy to build it there than to build it in LEO and launch it.

Considering it takes 9.8 km/s to get to LEO, I doubt it.

You would only want to build a starship in LEO if time was of the essence, and you needed to get out quickly, without time to get mining equipment to sub-mercury orbit.

[Spaceception]

Just now, fredinno said:

SSTOs to GEO are going to be way too big. Use a SSTO to LEO, and a reusable Space tug to GEO.

Considering it takes 9.8 km/s to get to LEO, I doubt it.

You would only want to build a starship in LEO if time was of the essence, and you needed to get out quickly, without time to get mining equipment to sub-mercury orbit.

Okay, but the SSTOs will also be used to get the colonists down to the surface, I can lower the height of the Starship though, that's not to hard.

Well, it's going to be done over 15 years.

[Bill Phil]

22 minutes ago, fredinno said:

SSTOs to GEO are going to be way too big. Use a SSTO to LEO, and a reusable Space tug to GEO.

Considering it takes 9.8 km/s to get to LEO, I doubt it.

You would only want to build a starship in LEO if time was of the essence, and you needed to get out quickly, without time to get mining equipment to sub-mercury orbit.

And it takes an extra few km/s to leave Earth SOI, and then you have to lose a lot of the kinetic and potential energy of Earth orbit.

[Spaceception]

Here's the very rough descriptions for all but one of the planets around Lalande 21185 I imagined, "Earth 2" won't be described until later in the novel, as well as more stats

Lalande 21185 b Hot desert subterran, 15 day orbit.

Lalande 21185  c Hot desert subterran, 33 day orbit

Lalande 21185  d Warm desert terran, 46 day orbit

Lalande 21185  f Cold Ice world subterran 136 day orbit

Lalande 21185  g Frozen Titan subterran 2.3 year orbit

[fredinno]

5 hours ago, Spaceception said:

Okay, but the SSTOs will also be used to get the colonists down to the surface, I can lower the height of the Starship though, that's not to hard.

Well, it's going to be done over 15 years.

The height of the starship is not that bad...

It's the fact you are using SSTOs when using TSTOs or 3STOs could offer an enormous performance advantage.

I can see what you're going with this, but the problem is that a Saturn V-mass carrying SSTO to LEO is HUGE.

For example, Rhombus:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/rombus.htm

had a payload of 450T to LEO.

Keep in mind, this uses expendable drop tanks, so a full SSTO would be even bigger, and even more massive to do the same to GEO.

I can see why you want an SSTO, but I think you may be better off building it with much smaller SSTO+ Space tug, and just make sure that it can run with very little maintenance, and basic ISRU refueling. Pretty difficult, but if you can make a interstellar drive

Another option is just building that spacecraft in Lunar orbit, and carrying resources to and fro the moon for a large amount of the mass the spacecraft needs. Mainly more basic things like Shielding, and construction... It would reduce mass liftoff from Earth, but you need to create huge amounts of expendable infrastructure...

 

Or build it in Vulcanian (sub mercury) orbit via asteroids. I have no clue where your population is on space exploration. Are there manned colonies throughout the inner solar system? Then this option may be viable. If not, probably not.

[Spaceception]

Just now, fredinno said:

The height of the starship is not that bad...

It's the fact you are using SSTOs when using TSTOs or 3STOs could offer an enormous performance advantage.

I can see what you're going with this, but the problem is that a Saturn V-mass carrying SSTO to LEO is HUGE.

For example, Rhombus:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/rombus.htm

had a payload of 450T to LEO.

Keep in mind, this uses expendable drop tanks, so a full SSTO would be even bigger, and even more massive to do the same to GEO.

I can see why you want an SSTO, but I think you may be better off building it with much smaller SSTO+ Space tug, and just make sure that it can run with very little maintenance, and basic ISRU refueling. Pretty difficult, but if you can make a interstellar drive

Another option is just building that spacecraft in Lunar orbit, and carrying resources to and fro the moon for a large amount of the mass the spacecraft needs. Mainly more basic things like Shielding, and construction... It would reduce mass liftoff from Earth, but you need to create huge amounts of expendable infrastructure...

 

Or build it in Vulcanian (sub mercury) orbit via asteroids. I have no clue where your population is on space exploration. Are there manned colonies throughout the inner solar system? Then this option may be viable. If not, probably not.

Alright, what about a Dream chaser type craft, only 3x larger, capable of holding 20 people and 13.6 metric tonnes to LEO, 1200 km high, not as big as my original design, and can be hauled up by a Vulcan rocket. Also, I guess there could be an unmanned mining base on the Moon with Extraplanetary launchpads installed , with space tugs that can haul construction material from Lunar orbit to LEO. I haven't gone far enough yet for me to not be able to change the story.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Spaceception

[fredinno]

7 hours ago, Spaceception said:

Alright, what about a Dream chaser type craft, only 3x larger, capable of holding 20 people and 13.6 metric tonnes to LEO, 1200 km high, not as big as my original design, and can be hauled up by a Vulcan rocket. Also, I guess there could be an unmanned mining base on the Moon with Extraplanetary launchpads installed , with space tugs that can haul construction material from Lunar orbit to LEO. I haven't gone far enough yet for me to not be able to change the story.

You pretty much described a modified Space Shuttle. And you want it on a RLV, especially one able to use ISRU and need minimal maintenance due to the massive amounts of material needed, and the fact that you want to use this like Interstellar's Ranger. Depending on the profile, I would stick to a 2 or 3-stage reusable Saturn V-payload rocket for my interstellar drive, and use lunar mining and space tugs.

Also, 12,000 km high is within the Van Allen Belt. Bad place to build. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt

 

I'm assuming your society has always stayed within the Earth-Moon system?

Also, for the storyline, I would anticipate the black hole being obvious before it heads in the solar system. We would have plenty of time to make sense of it and take action.

 

[Spaceception]

Just now, fredinno said:

You pretty much described a modified Space Shuttle. And you want it on a RLV, especially one able to use ISRU and need minimal maintenance due to the massive amounts of material needed, and the fact that you want to use this like Interstellar's Ranger. Depending on the profile, I would stick to a 2 or 3-stage reusable Saturn V-payload rocket for my interstellar drive, and use lunar mining and space tugs.

Also, 12,000 km high is within the Van Allen Belt. Bad place to build. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt

 

I'm assuming your society has always stayed within the Earth-Moon system?

Also, for the storyline, I would anticipate the black hole being obvious before it heads in the solar system. We would have plenty of time to make sense of it and take action.

 

Okay.

1200 not 12000

NASA has done 1 Mars semi direct mission prior, but nothing on the Moon. (And I'll be putting into the extended first chapter)

I've said earlier, and it's mentioned in the first chapter, the Black Hole doesn't get detected until it pops into existence a few hours prior, and I do have a "Scientific"

Spoiler

Not really, it's more of a sidestep, but it'll make sense

explanation of how it get there.

[Spaceception]

I originally wanted it to be like this:

Only much bigger, and with bigger air intakes for skylon like engines that has a afterburner, Could it be feasible, or do I need to scrap it?

[fredinno]

10 hours ago, Spaceception said:

I originally wanted it to be like this:

Only much bigger, and with bigger air intakes for skylon like engines that has a afterburner, Could it be feasible, or do I need to scrap it?

Probably not very good for landings, since you need a large runway. I would much rather do a vertical landing of sorts, probably with engines.

10 hours ago, Spaceception said:

Okay.

1200 not 12000

NASA has done 1 Mars semi direct mission prior, but nothing on the Moon. (And I'll be putting into the extended first chapter)

I've said earlier, and it's mentioned in the first chapter, the Black Hole doesn't get detected until it pops into existence a few hours prior, and I do have a "Scientific"

  Hide contents

Not really, it's more of a sidestep, but it'll make sense

explanation of how it get there.

Then it's probably better to build it up via lunar and Earth resources, and do a long burn out, instead of going into the Sun, even though it takes more fuel- Jupiter may not exist to do a gravity assist to get down to the Sun once we get there

But at least maybe do a oberth burn to LEO- though that might not matter much, TBH.

[Atlas2342]

On 31/03/2016 at 9:27 AM, Spaceception said:

Here's the very rough descriptions for all but one of the planets around Lalande 21185 I imagined, "Earth 2" won't be described until later in the novel, as well as more stats

Lalande 21185  f Cold Ice world subterran 136 day orbit

I vote this: ^^^ because cold for a change

Also, 

18 hours ago, Spaceception said:

I originally wanted it to be like this:

VTOL it? 

What software did you use to render that beauty?

Edited April 1, 2016 by Atlas2342

[Spaceception]

Just now, Atlas2342 said:

I vote this: ^^^ because cold for a change

Also, 

VTOL it? 

What software did you use to render that beauty?

I pulled it off of Google images when I was looking for the craft that most resembled my idea