Inclination changes

[legoclone09]

I have a suggestion I think would make early career more challenging. In a good way, though. We can increase the Mun's inclination to 3* and increase Minmus's to 11*. Comment what you think about this!

[RA3236]

38 minutes ago, legoclone09 said:

I have a suggestion I think would make early career more challenging. In a good way, though. We can increase the Mun's inclination to 3* and increase Minmus's to 11*. Comment what you think about this!

And also no zero inclination and eccentricity for everything!!!

[AbacusWizard]

Eh, I think having a 0° inclination moon is a good idea. There's already enough for new players to learn all at once without also having to figure out inclination changes too.

[Hannu2]

I agree. Mun is so large that inclination of couple of degrees does not make transfers more difficult for beginners who do not care where they land. You get just somewhat inclined orbit. For example, I have to avoid Mun when I go to Minmus from parking orbit in Minmus's plane. 6 degrees is not enough to avoid Mun's SOI. It is time to learn little orbital mechanics when you are more advanced and begin to make pinpoint landings or use orbits with defined inclination and LAN.

[mattinoz]

I'm still "inclined" to think this is still the best plan...

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/73070-axial-tilt-for-planets/&do=findComment&comment=1175173

[pincushionman]

I second the thought about axial tilt. It would have a much larger impact in the big scheme of things.

that said, the close/zero relative inclination  of Mun is good for beginning gameplay. First they need something easy to hit, then add inclination before they leave Kerbin's SOI and they NEED it. That's probably why Kerbin-Mun-Minmus system is set up the way it is.

[CaptainTurbomuffin]

The point of Mun/Mün (I never knew how it should be written) is to be a celestial body that's insanely easy to reach. Changing its inclination wouldn't matter, you would need the same ammout of ΔV to get there. It wouldn't be harder for you, but it would probably be easier for beginners. KSP is probably one of the best games ever, the problem with it is that most players just don't believe that they have the intelligence for it, and rather go back to FPS games. It's too scientific. A targer as easy to reach as possible could greatly help this.

On the other hand, a celestial body with such orderly parameters is unrealistic. However, I personally like that. It helps you to remember that it's just a game.

[RA3236]

The Mun has a large enough gravity belt to capture anything even if it were 1 degree from the ecliptic. More realism should be implemented.

[Sovek]

A better method is to move KSC to more northern/southern location like in Harder Solar System, this would offer more of a challenge, and 3 degrees is nothing considering its size and mass.

[FungusForge]

A small change to the inclination of the moon wouldn't really have any effect at all. This is partly because the Mun's zero inclination means nothing since the neither the launchpad or runway are exactly on Kerbin's equator. The equator is a good deal closer to the monolith north of KSC then it is to KSC itself. Because of that no matter how perfect your launch, you end up with a few degrees of inclination.

[Skylar']

no changes to the moon!  I remember my first times getting to the moon. it was hard. I was just like john snow "know nothing" and only because of 0 inclination the moon accidentally captured me  and somehow I landed my mk1 plane copcit that I used for rocket  I like how thought everything are the moon is 0 because to be easy Minmus have some inclination to learn player about it. and even Duna is educational planet because u not need to think too much to get there  

Edited February 12, 2016 by Skylar'

[The Optimist]

GRAMMAR POLICE ALERT

Just now, Skylar' said:

no changes to the moon!  I remember my first times getting to the moon. it was hard. I was just like john snow "know nothing" and only because of 0 inclination the moon accidentally captured me  and somehow I landed my mk1 plane copcit that I used for rocket  I like how thought everything are the moon is 0 because to be easy Minmus have some inclination to learn player about it. and even Duna is educational planet because u not need to think too much to get there  

Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?

 

[Panel]

I think it would be a good idea to change the Mun's inclination. As others have pointed out, it's still large enough to capture you at 3 degrees. This would also help with the fact that solar powered missions will be eclipsed for long periods during transfer. 

[SSgt Baloo]

I would imagine that there will not be enough demand for either of these in the default game. If someone were to make a mod that changes these inclinations, making it purely optional whether you want the added complexity, that would be ideal.

[Skylar']

28 minutes ago, The Optimist said:

GRAMMAR POLICE ALERT

Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?

 

Grammar police will no help me  I using spell check to fix my words grammar but it not helps to correctly express myself  no native English. I'm like master Yoda, "calm you shall keep and carry on you must !"  

[The Optimist]

Just now, Skylar' said:

Grammar police will no help me  I using spell check to fix my words grammar but it not helps to correctly express myself  no native English. I'm like master Yoda, "calm you shall keep and carry on you must !"  

Alrighty then

[Snark]

On 2/11/2016 at 10:23 PM, AbacusWizard said:

Eh, I think having a 0° inclination moon is a good idea. There's already enough for new players to learn all at once without also having to figure out inclination changes too.

This.

There's a good reason why Squad designed things the way they did:  i.e. why the Mun has zero inclination, and a perfectly circular orbit, and KSC is right plumb spang on the equator, and Kerbin has a perfectly circular orbit around the Sun.

There's a nice progression of gradually increasing challenge:  first LKO, then the Mun and Minmus (one is more of a dV challenge, the other's more of a navigation challenge), then interplanetary.

Sure, you get bored with the Mun, that's 'coz you're a KSP expert now.    But remember there are lots and lots of players for whom just getting to the Mun is a challenge.  I see lots of posts in the "Gameplay Questions and Tutorials" forum from people wanting help with this.

The Mun is a great stepping stone, precisely because it's so trivial to navigate to-- it lets you concentrate on the next engineering challenge after LKO (i.e. "how do I build something with a few thousand more m/s of dV than LKO capability?") without dragging navigation into the mix.

If you want to mix it up a little, then there are plenty of mods that let you do that.  Heck, install Kopernicus, and with just a few lines of config you can put the Mun (or anything else) anywhere you want!  But for the stock game, the Mun should be left alone.  It's perfect just as it is.

[legoclone09]

8 hours ago, Snark said:

This.

There's a good reason why Squad designed things the way they did:  i.e. why the Mun has zero inclination, and a perfectly circular orbit, and KSC is right plumb spang on the equator, and Kerbin has a perfectly circular orbit around the Sun.

There's a nice progression of gradually increasing challenge:  first LKO, then the Mun and Minmus (one is more of a dV challenge, the other's more of a navigation challenge), then interplanetary.

Sure, you get bored with the Mun, that's 'coz you're a KSP expert now.    But remember there are lots and lots of players for whom just getting to the Mun is a challenge.  I see lots of posts in the "Gameplay Questions and Tutorials" forum from people wanting help with this.

The Mun is a great stepping stone, precisely because it's so trivial to navigate to-- it lets you concentrate on the next engineering challenge after LKO (i.e. "how do I build something with a few thousand more m/s of dV than LKO capability?") without dragging navigation into the mix.

If you want to mix it up a little, then there are plenty of mods that let you do that.  Heck, install Kopernicus, and with just a few lines of config you can put the Mun (or anything else) anywhere you want!  But for the stock game, the Mun should be left alone.  It's perfect just as it is.

Yeah, that does make much more sense. I think I might make a small mod that does that.

[Requia]

22 hours ago, Sovek said:

A better method is to move KSC to more northern/southern location like in Harder Solar System, this would offer more of a challenge, and 3 degrees is nothing considering its size and mass.

What you're suggesting is way way harder than reality if the change is made in isolation. It is way way harder to get to an equatorial obit when distant from the equator than to get to an inclined orbit from the equator. Cape Canaveral launches to the moon are enabled by the axial tilt of the earth (something Kerbin lacks) which brings the cape very close to the moon's orbit once a day.

Unless you meant to stick it in Russia anyway, in which case you need to deal with the more difficult method regardless.

[Sovek]

29 minutes ago, Requia said:

What you're suggesting is way way harder than reality if the change is made in isolation. It is way way harder to get to an equatorial obit when distant from the equator than to get to an inclined orbit from the equator. Cape Canaveral launches to the moon are enabled by the axial tilt of the earth (something Kerbin lacks) which brings the cape very close to the moon's orbit once a day.

Unless you meant to stick it in Russia anyway, in which case you need to deal with the more difficult method regardless.

Yeah, obviously you can't make the change in only one area.. the Mun's orbit would have to change to allow for a window. Thats what HSS does, it changes the Mun's orbit to a similar 26 degree or so orbital inclination... I forget what Minmus is though.

And yeah, Axial tilt is a thing I wish they could easily impliment into KSP, but it requires massive rework.

[Nich]

Frankly I think the Mun and Minimus need to switch places.  Most new players try to go to the Mun first which is a big mistake as minimus is less dv to orbit land and return from.  In addition lower gravity and obvious flat spots on minimus makes your first landings so much easier.  I got lucky and lander my first attempt but after that it took about 30-40 attempts to get back safely and this was all before i knew about f5 f9

Edited February 14, 2016 by Nich

[RA3236]

35 minutes ago, Nich said:

Frankly I think the Mun and Minimus need to switch places.  Most new players try to go to the Mun first which is a big mistake as minimus is less dv to orbit land and return from.  In addition lower gravity and obvious flat spots on minimus makes your first landings so much easier.  I got lucky and lander my first attempt but after that it took about 30-40 attempts to get back safely and this was all before i knew about f5 f9

As stated before, Minmus is a moon that has high inclination, that causes it to have high navigation challenges.

But your right, Minmus also has higher science than the Mun, so I go there first.

[Nich]

14 minutes ago, RA3236 said:

As stated before, Minmus is a moon that has high inclination, that causes it to have high navigation challenges.

But your right, Minmus also has higher science than the Mun, so I go there first.

I was saying Mun needs to be in Minimus spot with minimus' inclination and minimus needs to be in the Muns spot with the Muns inclination making it easier for first time players.  Mun should get an increase in resources to make it a viable mining location over minimus.

[RA3236]

4 minutes ago, Nich said:

I was saying Mun needs to be in Minimus spot with minimus' inclination and minimus needs to be in the Muns spot with the Muns inclination making it easier for first time players.  Mun should get an increase in resources to make it a viable mining location over minimus.

... and double the difficulty of a Mun exploration.

[Nich]

Yes once you have conquered an easy Minimus (with no inclination and lower gravity and lower dv requirements) Then you go do a more challenging Mun encounter.  Of course Science and contracts would have to be adjusted.  As it is I went to the Mun first.  Had a really tough time dealing with all the tipped landers and the 2000ish dv needed to land and get home (done inefficiently).  I then took the same ship to minmus and hit 4-5 biomes in one trip.

I felt like the Mun was EPIC and Minimus was just to farm science with no challenge.  The only thing remotely challenging about minimus would be getting a fly by without a tracking station.