nasa with the department of defense budget

[AngelLestat]

37 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

Electric cars have been around for more than a century.

Crossfeed? The shuttle had very similar tech.

Reusable rockets? Could've been done in the 60s.

Yeah.. apparently telecommunications tech also not changed, they keep using the electromagnetic spectrum.

14 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Nah, Elon does not do new tech for the most part- the only one you listed is Hyperloop

You don't make the best electric car in the industry just doing what others try before, the same goes for spacex.
I accept that Elon business models are way superior than other companies, but that is not the whole secret for their success.

For example, they needed a light way to convert DC current in AC (because AC motors are way superior), if they would use normal inverters to turn 250 kw DC to AC it would need a huge and heavy inverter, but they solve that placing the inversion task in the motor itself by breaking the rotation into many phases and assigning each phase to a different subset of the battery pack which made everything cheaper, small and light, this is also failure proof against batteries issues.
The battery was arrange and design to be cool it self. And mostly all main components of the tesla S are one step ahead from the rest of the industry.
 

14 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Automatic Cars are being pursuited everywhere in the car industry. Electric Cars are age-old. Vertical Landings on Earth were accomplished back in the DC-X days, (though not on the scale of F9, an evolution of the DC-X landings is not innovative). Only the deep-cryo Lox is really innovative, and that really seems to be backfiring on SpaceX.

If all the things that Spacex make are not innovative, then in that case NASA did not accomplish absolutely nothing in 40 years with a lot of extra money and time.

12 minutes ago, kunok said:

Even if Nasa does not make a new Mars program with that budget of whatever fantastic idea we have, it still does lots of basic research, it will bring lots of improvements in aeronautic and space related environments, and then the private companies will use them in their designs, including space X. A private company making basic research is a very strange thing (funded by itself, being a contractor of a public research program is another thing).

I am very aware of all the research and new technology + knowledge in which NASA was involved and currently keeps working. Like inflatable heat shields, rotor capsule, aerodynamics, theoretical atmosphere models, biology, physics, etc.
Many of those things was accomplished over the apollo or voyager ages.
But I would love if they could be more cost-efficient and focus in their real task.   

 

[Bill Phil]

@AngelLestat

The only major change since the 60s is computers and materials, as well as cultural ideas.

Even the AI that spacex wants to use isn't that new, other ones similar to it have been created.

SpaceX isn't more advanced, nor more capable, they just cut overheads to fund their LV.

And Tesla is actually going through troubles as a car company.

What I'm saying is that everything spacex is doing could've been done decades ago.

[SgtSomeone]

Full disclosure: I don't know the exact ratio of DoD funding to NASA, but I assume the ratio is something terrible like 20:1

Nasa has 4 main 'directorates' [paraphrased below], and their overarching goal is Mars. 

• Aeronautics - air mobility in more environmentally friendly and sustainable ways
• Human Exploration and Operations - ISS, Commercial spaceflight, research on beyond LEO
• Science -  explores the Earth, solar system and universe beyond, including scouting for best path forward
• Space Technology - high risk, high reward tech with big payoffs and money for US economy. 

Let's build this in stages, from most realistic to day-dreaming
Tripling of budget? 

• Aeronautics - They'd probably build full-size mockups of their new sonic-boom-reducing x-planes, and build an electrically-powered commuter plane before Airbus finishes with their e-fan project. 
• HE&O - Currently building up knowledge base for deep-space push. More money means more/faster research, not a push to Mars quite yet. I'd guess extended life on ISS, maybe a couple more science modules (greenhouse? A centrifuge like everyone is talking about on the forums?). Possibly a second station in lunar orbit out of van-allen belts to test higher radiation? 
• Science - Moar probes! And probes of different types. Probably focused around Mars, maybe a drone for caves, a fuelling one to test if they can make methane-based fuel (an assumption they've made so they can fuel up the human return vehicle)
• Space Technology - This one would probably just end up being more [insert statement about pork/waste/corruption without invoking politics] like the current SLS, but you'd probably see some high-risk technologies tested one a couple proof-of-concept probes a la Deep Space 1

10x budget?

• Aeronautics - Push the limits! Partner with Boeing and Lockheed Martin and make full-size jets and UAVs with advanced composites. Maybe also build an SSTO with a SABER engine. 
• Human Exploration and Operations - Now we're talking Mars-level funding. Send manned research station to Mars, or maybe just solar orbit. Add a moon base to test mining technologies for a colony. 
• Science -  Mapping satellites a la Mars Global Surveyor around every planet in our solar system, earth climate satellites. 
• Space Technology - Distribute grants to every university in the States, fund high-value composites research, build a metric truck-load of launch sites and infrastructure. 

100x budget? 

• Buys SpaceX, Tesla, Boeing, Lockheed, hires Elon Musk, forces companies to work together to be awesome. 
• Single handedly solves climate change, world hunger.
• Revamps SETI, finds life. 

 

Edited March 3, 2016 by SgtSomeone

[Bill Phil]

NASA has to incite competition. 

But I guess we'd get Terrestrial Planet Finder, maybe it could be 12 times better. With both infrared and visual light telescope systems.

And then, just maybe, we find a truly earth like planet somewhere else in the universe, with genuine signs of life.

[fredinno]

1 hour ago, SgtSomeone said:

Full disclosure: I don't know the exact ratio of DoD funding to NASA, but I assume the ratio is something terrible like 20:1

Nasa has 4 main 'directorates' [paraphrased below], and their overarching goal is Mars. 

• Aeronautics - air mobility in more environmentally friendly and sustainable ways
• Human Exploration and Operations - ISS, Commercial spaceflight, research on beyond LEO
• Science -  explores the Earth, solar system and universe beyond, including scouting for best path forward
• Space Technology - high risk, high reward tech with big payoffs and money for US economy. 

Let's build this in stages, from most realistic to day-dreaming
Tripling of budget? 

• Aeronautics - They'd probably build full-size mockups of their new sonic-boom-reducing x-planes, and build an electrically-powered commuter plane before Airbus finishes with their e-fan project. 
• HE&O - Currently building up knowledge base for deep-space push. More money means more/faster research, not a push to Mars quite yet. I'd guess extended life on ISS, maybe a couple more science modules (greenhouse? A centrifuge like everyone is talking about on the forums?). Possibly a second station in lunar orbit out of van-allen belts to test higher radiation? 
• Science - Moar probes! And probes of different types. Probably focused around Mars, maybe a drone for caves, a fuelling one to test if they can make methane-based fuel (an assumption they've made so they can fuel up the human return vehicle)
• Space Technology - This one would probably just end up being more [insert statement about pork/waste/corruption without invoking politics] like the current SLS, but you'd probably see some high-risk technologies tested one a couple proof-of-concept probes a la Deep Space 1

10x budget?

• Aeronautics - Push the limits! Partner with Boeing and Lockheed Martin and make full-size jets and UAVs with advanced composites. Maybe also build an SSTO with a SABER engine. 
• Human Exploration and Operations - Now we're talking Mars-level funding. Send manned research station to Mars, or maybe just solar orbit. Add a moon base to test mining technologies for a colony. 
• Science -  Mapping satellites a la Mars Global Surveyor around every planet in our solar system, earth climate satellites. 
• Space Technology - Distribute grants to every university in the States, fund high-value composites research, build a metric truck-load of launch sites and infrastructure. 

100x budget? 

• Buys SpaceX, Tesla, Boeing, Lockheed, hires Elon Musk, forces companies to work together to be awesome. 
• Single handedly solves climate change, world hunger.
• Revamps SETI, finds life. 

 

Nah, a 3x NASA budget would fund lunar missions by 2020 for HSF. Science for 10x would probably entail numerous Hubble-sized telescopes around Mars, Mercury, etc. Not to mention huge amounts of rovers and landers everywhere in the inner and Jupiter+Saturn.

[kerbiloid]

4 hours ago, SgtSomeone said:

100x budget? 

• Buys SpaceX, Tesla, Boeing, Lockheed, hires Elon Musk, forces companies to work together to be awesome. 
• Single handedly solves climate change, world hunger.
• Revamps SETI, finds life. 

100x budget → NASA is dismissed due to anti-monopoly laws.

[kurja]

7 hours ago, SgtSomeone said:

Full disclosure: I don't know the exact ratio of DoD funding to NASA, but I assume the ratio is something terrible like 20:1

It's more like 30:1.

Edited March 3, 2016 by kurja