1.1 taking TOO long

[Talavar]

 I've had one gripe this whole time..  (which impacts productivity) .. I thought it should have been written in straight code from the start. Yes, I know it's not as simple. But there would have been no limitations on the "engine" from the get-go as it would have been tweakable by the devs themselves. This is the general problem with using an engine, they have certain limitations that you can't change. When programmed yourself, your limitation is the height of your ambition. My post isn't meant to be a blow to the developers, as they've done a bang up job with what they have to work with (unity). Just my personal thoughts on it as a whole. I know that such conjecture is a moot point really, but i always wonder how much better it would have been if it had been written in pure code...

Edited March 14, 2016 by Talavar

[Esquire42]

On March 12, 2016 at 7:07 PM, seyss said:

It's 2016 and we still don't have clouds. We can't have a savegame with more than ~80 objects without game performance being terrible. Hell, video performance is terrible from the game start while CPU/GPU usage is ~15%. You can have 3TB RAM and KSP will top at 2GB.. can you say Unity 5 will fix these?

Game design and coding is hard. It takes time. There are limits.

Also you can't have 3TB of RAM.

[OddFunction]

3 minutes ago, Esquire42 said:

Game design and coding is hard. It takes time. There are limits.

Also you can't have 3TB of RAM.

You can certainly have 3TB of RAM. But if you're spending the tens of thousands of dollars required, you'd be better off with anything but 3TB of RAM.

[kiwi1960]

March 2016: People complain about how long its taking for 1.1
 

XXXX 2016: 1.1 is released

XXXX 2016: People complain the wait wasn't worth it.

XXXX 2016: People complain there is no new updates

XXXX 2016: Update 1.1.1 is released

xxxx 2016: People complain that they expected more!

2017: Squad says "screw most of you, half the developers retire! The ones left double the cost of KSP and change the name of the forums to "The Ungrateful moaners forums"

This is the cycle of life for any game. Maybe those that cannot wait should go outside and smell the roses, get a girlfriend, get a job... maybe a life.

Meanwhile..... in the real world...

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, Talavar said:

 I've had one gripe this whole time..  (which impacts productivity) .. I thought it should have been written in straight code from the start. Yes, I know it's not as simple.(...) but i always wonder how much better it would have been if it had been written in pure code...

Oh, that's very easy to answer; there would not have been a KSP. Progress in the beginning would have been so slow that everyone would have lost interest and moved on to something else. KSP would simply not have developed the community around it there is now if it had been developed from the ground up without an engine. Not to mention that any changes in modelling (say, from mass-based souposphere aerodynamics to the current model that, while not perfect, is much better) would probably have been nearly impossible to implement.

[OddFunction]

25 minutes ago, kiwi1960 said:

March 2016: People complain about how long its taking for 1.1
 

XXXX 2016: 1.1 is released

XXXX 2016: People complain the wait wasn't worth it.

XXXX 2016: People complain there is no new updates

XXXX 2016: Update 1.1.1 is released

xxxx 2016: People complain that they expected more!

2017: Squad says "screw most of you, half the developers retire! The ones left double the cost of KSP and change the name of the forums to "The Ungrateful moaners forums"

This is the cycle of life for any game. Maybe those that cannot wait should go outside and smell the roses, get a girlfriend, get a job... maybe a life.

Meanwhile..... in the real world...

For people that think this doesn't happen, it really really does. For example has anyone played Minecraft? It got sold to Microsoft because notch got sick of the community, said "I don't need this crap I could be a billionaire and party with Swedish chicks" and did just that.

Here's the tweet:

 

 

And just so we're clear, I'm not saying that this community is toxic or anything. Quite the contrary, most of you are above average for the internet and its fun to post here. But there is also this attitude of "MINE, NOW" that creeps up from time to time, and its important to remember that developers are people too and that nobody likes to be constantly berated.

[HebaruSan]

To be fair, HarvesteR has a (pretty good) QA team, and during a certain period of Minecraft development it became painfully clear that Notch both needed one badly and had none to speak of. During Minecraft's alpha/beta period, release day was more about the new bugs than the new features.

[Kar]

In hurry?

Buy something from EA.

 

[joe_da_cro]

did I expect the update sooner, sure i did. Do i think I should be badgering the devs about them having plans different to my expectations. No. Squad are a good dev team they have released a game and are being courteous to the whole community in releasing a engine update. Im sure the people posting here have all got their money's worth already from playing the game and like most posters appreciate the effort that Squad are putting in with their game.

Edited March 15, 2016 by joe_da_cro

[FancyMouse]

Just want to mention one thing. Regardless of how my colleagues or I estimate the development cost, my manager always multiplies the number by 3 for his planning. The mulitplier of 3 has been proven working for years.

Not that we're bad - we're the elite team of our product solving the most complicated problem in the system. My point is about dev estimating versus project planning. It's always the unexpected part that takes more time.

Edited March 15, 2016 by FancyMouse

[Nich]

I generally take my estimates and add 100% for unexpected and have been pretty accurate.  If I am working with/for someone who is a pain in the ass then 400% is more accurate.

[Sunociva]

I don't think I have as many mods as some others, but the mods I do have (and do not want to uninstall) have made my save unstable. I have since stopped playing until 1.1. I can get anywhere from 5 minutes of playtime, to 3 hours+. I'm sick of the endless crashing. If 1.1 doesn't fix the stability of the game, I will most likely be done for good. Hope Squad gets it together as this used to be one of my favorite games.

[AlamoVampire]

I personally think they can take as much time as they need.  Ive plenty todo in 1.0.5 as is. Namely perfecting my light, medium and heavy shuttles. Just be patient, find a project to work on.

[Hysterrics]

Well first off, you're coming along pretty bad already with the title. Calm down.

Just wait, my friend. As we like to say around here, 1.1 is coming Soon^TM, or ItWillGetHereWhenItGetsHere^TM.

 

3 hours ago, OddFunction said:

For people that think this doesn't happen, it really really does. For example has anyone played Minecraft? It got sold to Microsoft because notch got sick of the community, said "I don't need this crap I could be a billionaire and party with Swedish chicks" and did just that.

Here's the tweet:

 

 

And just so we're clear, I'm not saying that this community is toxic or anything. Quite the contrary, most of you are above average for the internet and its fun to post here. But there is also this attitude of "MINE, NOW" that creeps up from time to time, and its important to remember that developers are people too and that nobody likes to be constantly berated.

I've always felt pretty bad for that guy. He makes a small little game and it gets overrun by one of the worst communities.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Sequinox

[StarStreak2109]

*yawn*
 

[hildegain]

As for Notch quitting Minecraft due to the community... I don't mean to disrespect the guy but I think that was mostly because he lacked any real passion for his own creation.

[Warzouz]

6 minutes ago, hildegain said:

As for Notch quitting Minecraft due to the community... I don't mean to disrespect the guy but I think that was mostly because he lacked any real passion for his own creation.

I agree. He had dump developing MC much before selling Mojang. He wasn't directly involved for a long time. But now MC is more about merchandising... Mojang in general became more and more sclerosed and lacks good ideas for years. But maybe that inevitable in game development, I don't know, I hope not! The community had hoped that recruiting mod developers would improve things, but nothing came from that.

On the other hand, on KSP, the community sees the benefit of having mod developers aboard. Many of them integrate part of their work into KSP in a simplified version (that's logical)

As for 1.1, there is a huge new feature : 64bit support which will end the memory limitations and maybe push the devs to be a little bit more bold on features (more planets, more planet features, proper sound design, better graphics, some missing parts).

[hildegain]

"As for 1.1, there is a huge new feature : 64bit support"

Better threading for physics too. So bigger builds and bigger features I could do so much more with that

[MennoLente]

8 hours ago, kiwi1960 said:

(...)
Maybe those that cannot wait should go outside and smell the roses, get a girlfriend, get a job... maybe a life.
(...)

These are wise words. Unfortunately, wisdom comes with the years, so for the younger ones it always has to be bigger, better, stronger, faster. Than you get older, you get a life, a job, depressed, a spouse, kids and before you know it, your gaming time is reduced from 24/7 to 0.24/7, and you don't even miss it a bit. And if you find your own wisdom, you'll find real happiness. And until than:

You can't always get what you want.

[Atlas2342]

The last thing we want to do is to make this a KerbalStuff situation. You know what they say, regret is in the end...

[worir4]

If you want to kill time you can post random hype stuff in the 1.1 Hypetrain thread. (Once you enter, you can not leave!!!!)

[cicatrix]

Truth be told, I finished a career in 1.0.4 and I have been waiting for 1.1 update since then. The biggest problem I have is that I want to use 64 bit version and it seems silly to me to have a Linux installed just in order I could play KSP. I'm eager to try out some new ideas I have but I'm reluctant to try these until 1.1 is out.

So I wait in patience.

[Curveball Anders]

12 hours ago, Talavar said:

 I thought it should have been written in straight code from the start.

Then there wouldn't have been any KSP.

He had to create something alone and in limited time to convince his bosses that it was worth investing resources in.

Had he written it from scratch he wouldn't have had anything to show.

[Talavar]

14 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Oh, that's very easy to answer; there would not have been a KSP. Progress in the beginning would have been so slow that everyone would have lost interest and moved on to something else.

     That's silly to assume. Writing an engine for something specific is WAY easier than writing a blanket system to cover everything (unity). And since it is targeted, there would be less waste code.. thousands of games were written in C / Visual C.. Look at orbiter... IT's done very well, considering its just one guy (DR. Martin Shweiger) poking buttons in his spare time. lol... IMagine if he had a whole team, such as squad, working on it all the time.. It would be awesome. Also, I think you are underestimating the talent of squads coders.
  After they had written the specific code that handles object physics, it's just a matter of adding assets. The rest is just gloss and small forces detail, and a ram cap would never have been an issue from the start.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Talavar

[Guest]

15 hours ago, OddFunction said:

For people that think this doesn't happen, it really really does. For example has anyone played Minecraft? It got sold to Microsoft because notch got sick of the community, said "I don't need this crap I could be a billionaire and party with Swedish chicks" and did just that.

 

 

Mildly related, but Notch barely did anything with Minecraft after release; his involvement was minimal.