First sattelite attempt

[Randazzo]

20 minutes ago, Victor3 said:

Let me ask straight out...How do I gain SAS controls (prograde/retrograde, etc.) over a probe? What do I have to add to the probe? Currently I have SAS ability...but that is all.

You need a HECS, OKTO2 (you will need a separate reaction wheel with this one), or one of the bigger ones (1.25m, 2.5m) whose names elude me at the moment. QBE (also needs separate reaction wheel) and OKTO only have stability assist. Stayputnik has nothing.

Though I think using prograde hold would make things worse, to be honest.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Randazzo

[Harry Rhodan]

10 hours ago, Victor3 said:

My problem now is a very uncontrollable craft as we launch...I always end up flipping,

Screeeeeeeeeenshot.

[strider3]

14 hours ago, Randazzo said:

You need a HECS, OKTO2 (you will need a separate reaction wheel with this one), or one of the bigger ones (1.25m, 2.5m) whose names elude me at the moment. QBE (also needs separate reaction wheel) and OKTO only have stability assist. Stayputnik has nothing.

Though I think using prograde hold would make things worse, to be honest.

Yes, I need to figure out why this craft is flipping...instead of trying to live with it.

[strider3]

23 hours ago, FancyMouse said:

You need to focus on the right planet. A Kerbin orbit is not going to show when you focus on Mun or a ship orbiting on Mun, but it will when you switch your focus.

FancyMouse...I have "focused" on Kerbin...but I still do not see the orbit for this contract visually represented? I have a feeling this is not an option in 1.05? I'm guessing I'm on my own.

Never  mind, FM...the orbit showed up this time. Not sure what I did diff...but it's there

 

Edited April 16, 2016 by strider3

[strider3]

ARRRGHHhh! I have managed to "focus" on Kerbin and the required orbit for this contract shows up. BUT, I can no longer focus on my craft? I can select it for focus using the "TAB" key, until I come to my craft...but my craft does not show up in "map" mode? Nowhere do I see my graphical representation of my spacecraft once I focus on it? My current orbit, for my craft, is there...but I don't see the craft "Icon" anywhere.

S-I-G-H!\

Vic...who will always be a Newbal, apparently.

[strider3]

Guys and Gals...let's just let it go, for awhile. I have a funny feeling that I'm wearing out my welcome here, with all these questions. I will try to figure this stuff out, on my own. I certainly have appreciated your help, to this point but, at some point, I can see my constant questions as becoming...tiresome? Thanks gang!

[FullMetalMachinist]

54 minutes ago, Victor3 said:

Guys and Gals...let's just let it go, for awhile. I have a funny feeling that I'm wearing out my welcome here, with all these questions. I will try to figure this stuff out, on my own. I certainly have appreciated your help, to this point but, at some point, I can see my constant questions as becoming...tiresome? Thanks gang!

Not wearing out your welcome at all!  I haven't piped in yet because it was being handled well by everyone else who was helping you, but as it's gone quiet recently I'll see if I can help.  (And don't worry about all the questions, we were all "newballs" once. And besides, I actually enjoy helping people out. I love this game so much that I'll do all I can to help other people enjoy it, too.)

1 hour ago, Victor3 said:

ARRRGHHhh! I have managed to "focus" on Kerbin and the required orbit for this contract shows up. BUT, I can no longer focus on my craft? I can select it for focus using the "TAB" key, until I come to my craft...but my craft does not show up in "map" mode? Nowhere do I see my graphical representation of my spacecraft once I focus on it? My current orbit, for my craft, is there...but I don't see the craft "Icon" anywhere.

S-I-G-H!\

Vic...who will always be a Newbal, apparently.

Ok, so let's see here.  First off, if you're controlling the craft that you want to focus on, but you're currently focused on something else, instead of tabbing around to finally get back to your ship, just press Backspace.  It'll take you right to your current ship, but note that this doesn't work in the tracking station (I think it might take you straight to Kerbin...? Can't remember for certain.)

Second, I think that if you're in map view while controlling a ship, and the filter for that type of ship is turned off, then you'll get what you describe, an empty orbit line, with no icon. Mouse over the top center edge of the map view, and make sure that the vessel type that your satellite is, is turned on. That could be the problem. If that's not it, then it definitely sounds like a bug, and you should consider opening a new thread in the Tech Support forum.  

[Superfluous J]

11 hours ago, FullMetalMachinist said:

Not wearing out your welcome at all!

I second this. All your questions are just a walk down memory lane for me, when I had all the same problems. The same is true for a lot of us, I suspect.

For me personally, it's the first weekend of my vacation so I'm understandably not on as much

[strider3]

19 hours ago, FullMetalMachinist said:

Not wearing out your welcome at all!  I haven't piped in yet because it was being handled well by everyone else who was helping you, but as it's gone quiet recently I'll see if I can help.  (And don't worry about all the questions, we were all "newballs" once. And besides, I actually enjoy helping people out. I love this game so much that I'll do all I can to help other people enjoy it, too.)

Ok, so let's see here.  First off, if you're controlling the craft that you want to focus on, but you're currently focused on something else, instead of tabbing around to finally get back to your ship, just press Backspace.  It'll take you right to your current ship, but note that this doesn't work in the tracking station (I think it might take you straight to Kerbin...? Can't remember for certain.)

Second, I think that if you're in map view while controlling a ship, and the filter for that type of ship is turned off, then you'll get what you describe, an empty orbit line, with no icon. Mouse over the top center edge of the map view, and make sure that the vessel type that your satellite is, is turned on. That could be the problem. If that's not it, then it definitely sounds like a bug, and you should consider opening a new thread in the Tech Support forum.  

Thanks for your understanding. and...you nailed it, FMM...filter for "probes" was not on. I now see my satellite (Woohoo!). And a side note on this contract...I dumped the one that started all this...yes it was equatorial orbit (easy to get to) but the apoapsis and periapsis were at ~ 14,000,000 meters ?!?...a bit much for my current abilities...it's easier to orbit Mun than get to that orbit! Started a new contract with a keosynchronous orbit around 3,000,000 AP and 18 deg. The only thing I'm not seeing now is the 2 lines that connect my orbit to the required orbit at the AN / DN points. I'm working around that, though.

Vic the Newbal

[FullMetalMachinist]

3 hours ago, Victor3 said:

And a side note on this contract...I dumped the one that started all this...yes it was equatorial orbit (easy to get to) but the apoapsis and periapsis were at ~ 14,000,000 meters ?!?...a bit much for my current abilities...

Glad you're getting it figured out. It's good to have goals that push you forward, but sometimes those goals can be a bit too high (bu-dum, tiss). So it's also good to be able to take a step back and re-think what your sorter-term goals should be, and take baby steps.

3 hours ago, Victor3 said:

Started a new contract with a keosynchronous orbit around 3,000,000 AP and 18 deg. The only thing I'm not seeing now is the 2 lines that connect my orbit to the required orbit at the AN / DN points. I'm working around that, though.

So, those AN/DN lines only show up when you set something as a target, and you are in the same SoI as that target.  Unfortunately, you can't set a contract orbit as a target. The good new is that you do get the little AN/DN markers, and if you mouse over them they tell you the relative inclination, so it's easy enough to eyeball it. 

A word of advise:  inclination changes beyond one or two degrees and get really expensive when you're in a lower orbit.  Assuming that you've already launched and are in LKO, Keosynchronous orbit is far enough out that 18 deg shouldn't be too bad. So here's what I would do.  Drop a maneuver node and drag the prograde handle until it just barely hits the target orbit, then drag the node itself around your current orbit until the AP of the node hits either the AN or DN of the target orbit. Then make that burn. While you're coasting up the AP, make a new node at AP to circularize, and at the same time add some Normal or Anti-Normal to it so that you circularize into the correct plane. Then you can make slight adjustments as necessary to match the contract orbit.  One thing to be aware of is that some contracts that ask for a satellite in KEO require that you have a certain location on Kerbin visible (line of sight with ___ ) once you get up there. I honestly don't know of a sure-fire way to get into the correct spot on the first try, so I'll usually circularize a little below the target orbit, then time warp until Kerbin rotates around so I have line of sight with the right spot, then raise my orbit to KEO.

Now, if you're trying to match an inclined orbit right from launch, you can save quite a bit of dV by combining the inclination change with your launch/gravity turn.  What you do is have your ship on the launch pad, go to map view, and focus on Kerbin.  Then rotate the view around so that you're looking at the target orbit edge-on, so that it looks like a line rather than a circle or ellipse.  Then time warp until your ship is right under the target orbit (this will coincide with the AN/DN, but those markers won't be there because you're not in orbit yourself yet).  When you're right under the target orbit, launch and still head East for your gravity turn, but also slightly North or South, depending on which way you need to go to match inclinations. Then you can either circularize in LKO like normal, or just keep burning until your AP is at the target altitude. 

[Waxing_Kibbous]

You are going to go a bit crazy the first few launches until you get comfortable with the UI tricks and timing of things- at first it seems all very chaotic but soon it will become almost relaxing as everything comes together as planned

 

I also want to reiterate that this forum is unlike most others in that people are happy to help no matter how simple or common the problem, so ask away!

Edited April 18, 2016 by Waxing_Kibbous

[strider3]

38 minutes ago, FullMetalMachinist said:

Glad you're getting it figured out. It's good to have goals that push you forward, but sometimes those goals can be a bit too high (bu-dum, tiss). So it's also good to be able to take a step back and re-think what your sorter-term goals should be, and take baby steps.

So, those AN/DN lines only show up when you set something as a target, and you are in the same SoI as that target.  Unfortunately, you can't set a contract orbit as a target. The good new is that you do get the little AN/DN markers, and if you mouse over them they tell you the relative inclination, so it's easy enough to eyeball it. 

A word of advise:  inclination changes beyond one or two degrees and get really expensive when you're in a lower orbit.  Assuming that you've already launched and are in LKO, Keosynchronous orbit is far enough out that 18 deg shouldn't be too bad. So here's what I would do.  Drop a maneuver node and drag the prograde handle until it just barely hits the target orbit, then drag the node itself around your current orbit until the AP of the node hits either the AN or DN of the target orbit. Then make that burn. While you're coasting up the AP, make a new node at AP to circularize, and at the same time add some Normal or Anti-Normal to it so that you circularize into the correct plane. Then you can make slight adjustments as necessary to match the contract orbit.  One thing to be aware of is that some contracts that ask for a satellite in KEO require that you have a certain location on Kerbin visible (line of sight with ___ ) once you get up there. I honestly don't know of a sure-fire way to get into the correct spot on the first try, so I'll usually circularize a little below the target orbit, then time warp until Kerbin rotates around so I have line of sight with the right spot, then raise my orbit to KEO.

Now, if you're trying to match an inclined orbit right from launch, you can save quite a bit of dV by combining the inclination change with your launch/gravity turn.  What you do is have your ship on the launch pad, go to map view, and focus on Kerbin.  Then rotate the view around so that you're looking at the target orbit edge-on, so that it looks like a line rather than a circle or ellipse.  Then time warp until your ship is right under the target orbit (this will coincide with the AN/DN, but those markers won't be there because you're not in orbit yourself yet).  When you're right under the target orbit, launch and still head East for your gravity turn, but also slightly North or South, depending on which way you need to go to match inclinations. Then you can either circularize in LKO like normal, or just keep burning until your AP is at the target altitude. 

Wow...great new information, my friend! Thank you so much. Timing launches was going to be an upcoming question (I'm a child of Apollo, watched the moon landing at 8 years old and I remember "launch window"). Your statement that inclination changes at lower orbits is also new to me. The in game tutorials make you do that first...before heading out to the Mun. But, then again, a lower orbit is recommended before burning to intercept Mun (wasted energy). This is why I need you guys...lots of old info out there.

I'm going to print this, FMM...it's a keeper.

22 minutes ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

You are going to go a bit crazy the first few launches until you get comfortable with the UI tricks and timing of things- at first it seems all very chaotic but soon it will become almost relaxing as everything comes together as planned

 

I also want to reiterate that this forum is unlike most others in that people are happy to help no matter how simple or common the problem, so ask away!

Thanks for that, Waxing Kibbous. I spent 20 years at various MS Flight Simulator forums...and it was nothing like this..."RTFM!", "Search the forums!" and on and on. Nobody ever replied to "My searches yield 23,678 results!".

[wumpus]

On 4/15/2016 at 5:02 PM, Victor3 said:

I "have" Kerbal Engineer...but have no real idea how to use it yet. I imagine that using KE requires an entire new line of study LOL

...

Thanks, R!

I suspect that it is easier to learn KE than to learn rocket science by trial and error.  The important catch to know is that KE will lie to you about delta-v if you don't fix the altitude component (upper stages should have *huge* delta-v/fuel but will show almost none if set to sea level).

Delta-V:  Moved to the top because this is the most important reason to download KE.  Delta-v determines how fast you can accelerate your spacecraft and thus where you can go.  There are plenty of "what is delta-v" threads (including one recent that should still be on the fora) that explain it (sorry about the 17,000 other hits, but most of them in this fora should be good).  IMPORTANT: As far as I know, KE insists on computing all engine power at sea level.  Since upper stages tend to only work in vacuum, this tends to give you bad results.  Try switching the "atmospheric slider" (top line, second button) all the way to 70km (after 10k should be enough) to find the delta-v of your upper stages.  This should be a good enough approximation for your lower stages as well, and it always helps to be carrying the (pretty small) extra delta-v lost due to the approximation.

[back to the start of kerbal engineer: moving from left to right]

Parts: same as the stock report.  Note that career has some limitations on this.

Cost: How many kerbucks it will cost.  Stock tells you this as well.

Mass: how much each stage weighs.  Stock tells you this as well.  The biggest problems in rocket science are mass, mass, and mass.

ISP: how much [mass] efficiency your fuel will have.  Stock tells you per part, but KE figures it out when you have a bunch of engines firing at once.

Thrust: note that stock hands these to you the same as ISP.  You probably won't bother looking at this one as TWR is right next to it.

Torque:  Should be zero, unless you are building something like the space shuttle.  If it is non-zero, you have unbalanced/asymmetrical spacecraft and need to get it as close to zero as possible.

TWR: how fast you will accelerate.  Note that you want to have KE set to Kerbin (the top line should read BODY:KERBIN, if not click it and change it to Kerbin).  If this is less than 1.0 you won't be going to space today.  If it is higher than 2.0, expect nasty aero effects as you go up, and possible explosions due to heating.  Of course, if you are already trying to land on the Mun, you might want to switch to body:Mun to check the TWR (note, taking off with TWR>>1 makes sense without an atmosphere.  You really don't want it near 1 unless you are specifically limiting your engine for easier control).

Delta-v: moved to the top.

Burn: how long it takes to burn each stage.  Mostly a sanity check.  If the burn time of the top stage is long, and you know that the lower booster only takes about a minute left to apoapsis when it burns out, you know you will need a more powerful (higher TWR after cranking atmospheric up) upper stage.

Flight Engineer: (note in career mode you typically need to unlock it and attach one to your ship).  All these are things it will tell you when flying the rocket.

Apoapsis Height: [AP] how high your rocket will go (obviously make it over 70km for orbit). [only available in stock from the map mode]

Periapsis Height: [PE] how high is the lowest part of the orbit (needs to be 70km, again.

Time to Apoapsis: Pretty much how long you have to get into orbit.

Basically, getting to orbit means launching and following your "gravity turn" while watching AP get to the desired height.  Then set up a burn (centered on AP) to get your PE to the desired height as well.  Note that as you burn before apoapsis, your it will get further away from you and hopefully you will see the "time to apoapsis" stop or increase (that's my cue to stop thrusting and wait until time-to-apoapsis decreases some and start the whole process again until PE is high enough).

Other important numbers:

Altitude (terrain): critical for landing on the Mun and other planets (the flat parts of Minmus are at sea level, so you land when the altimeter at the top reads zero).  In stock, this is buried in the cockpit view.  The other way of determining altitude involves looking for your shadow and noting how fast it is approaching.

Surface slope:  Often tells you go/no-go for landing zones before you can see them.

[surface] biome: useful for science spam.  Excessive science spam is not recommended for continual enjoyment of the game.

Suicide burn (distance/time): Note, as far as I can tell this assumes you are dropping vertical (going sideways is more efficient).  A dangerous way to land, but can be used with a "soft floor" to suicide burn to 1000m, and manually land the rest of the way.

delta-v (per stage) useful to figure out if you will have to stage before completing a maneuver node (the delta-v needed for the maneuver pops up to the right of the navball).  Also good for realizing you don't have enough fuel for the mission and turning back.

Edited April 18, 2016 by wumpus
forgot about torque

[TwinKerbal]

Well, I'm kinda a n00b too (I don't have that many satellites) but what I recommend is the following

1. FAIRINGS ARE GOD!!!! They (might) protect the satellite itself.  If anything they make it more aerodynamic (a must with FAR).  

2. I know this is kinda a stupid (in some people's opinions) thing to do, but I never discard the engine on the rocket.  Just in case you need it

3. You only need three boosters (two if you're really skilled which I obviously am not) for getting to orbit with a small payload.  All you need is some kind of big rocket, since I play sandbox (ew gross!) I use Mammoths, a smaller rocket (I use the Rhino) and a smaller rocket which is usually something like a Mainsail (for the last maneuvering part) but I guess you could even use a Poodle

4. Don't try docking until you've landed on the Mun without any hacks.  Even with the Hyperedit (yes I know I am about to get raged at) rendezvous option, it was still really hard to even dock the ships together.  

5. Run x32 bit and use "-forceopengl" to reduce lag, especially if you have a laptop, an older computer, or 50 billion mods.  

[gnivler]

On 4/17/2016 at 5:59 PM, FullMetalMachinist said:

Now, if you're trying to match an inclined orbit right from launch, you can save quite a bit of dV by combining the inclination change with your launch/gravity turn.  What you do is have your ship on the launch pad, go to map view, and focus on Kerbin.  Then rotate the view around so that you're looking at the target orbit edge-on, so that it looks like a line rather than a circle or ellipse.  Then time warp until your ship is right under the target orbit (this will coincide with the AN/DN, but those markers won't be there because you're not in orbit yourself yet).  When you're right under the target orbit, launch and still head East for your gravity turn, but also slightly North or South, depending on which way you need to go to match inclinations. Then you can either circularize in LKO like normal, or just keep burning until your AP is at the target altitude. 

Thanks for the post, very good info.

I was doing some quick searching trying to figure out if there was another way to do this... you're fairly sure you have to eyeball it?  I have OK results by lining up the AN/DN on the launch pad, rotating to the desired inclination etc, but it's not as accurate as I'd like.

[FullMetalMachinist]

2 minutes ago, gnivler said:

you're fairly sure you have to eyeball it?

Unfortunately, yes. Every method of getting an actual number for relative inclination (whether stock or mods) relies on being able to set something as your target. You can't do that for contract orbits. 

[gnivler]

That method of burning from LKO to hang Ap over the AN/DN is awesome.  Thanks!