[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[ragusila]

hey yall. I am trying to set up my ideal KSP setup: so far, RSS and most of RO (real fuels, the beta of RO, and RaiderNick's rockets and probes) working beautifully, would love to add Kerbalism

I will be trying to set up first the antenas for the US probes, then mod the RaiderNick's Soyuz to last a bit more than 2 -3 days (Especially the LOK). 

But first, is there any patch to make Kerbalism work with RO or at least with Real Fuels? I will try to mod it myself otherwise to use resources available in RF. I looked in the last 10 pages but nothing there...

Is it ok with ShotgunNinja if I post modifications to Kerbalism or other mods in this thread? 

[ShotgunNinja]

@ragusila It should work without problems with RealFuels (don't know about RO itself, but I don't see why it shouldn't).

Probably you want to create a custom profile, especially for the ISRU chemical processes. I had to compromise and stock-ified the sabatier, anthraquinone and hydrazine production processes. But I left notes about them (it is all in Default.cfg). So for instance here I stock-ified Methane as LiquidFuel.

Process
{
  name = sabatier process
  modifier = _Sabatier
  input = [email protected]
  input = [email protected]
  input = [email protected]
  output = [email protected]
  output = [email protected] // ([email protected])
}

 

Also, perhaps most importantly, the Default profile is really assuming Kerbin day length. You could tweak the kerbal rules consumption rates (and/or intervals) to adapt them to 24h day length. Shouldn't be terribly hard.

It is okay if you post the custom profile here (or the set of patches, or whatever turn out to be necessary), no problem.

[ValynEritai]

3 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@JediRangerkendor Right now these antennas are supported directly:

• stock
• ven stock revamp
• J2X Antenna
• Origami
• the little transmitter of SurfaceExperimentPack
• SampleReturnCapsule get an embedded antenna
• the antenna in Tundra parts pack
• one of the cupolas in Stock-alike Station Parts Expansion get an embedded antenna

I am open for contributions of other patches. It's not hard to write these (the Antenna module specs are here, for instance).
The ones in the list above are either things that I used personally at some point, or patches that users wrote for themselves and then shared with all other users.

 

 

 

 

I read this and decided to forgo working on Bluedog for now and worked on Sounding Rockets instead. Pull Request

EDIT: Found a small typo. It's fixed and ready for merging.

Edited January 11, 2017 by ValynEritai

[ockidj]

Does this mod disable the green lines for the signal in map view?

 

[ValynEritai]

48 minutes ago, ockidj said:

Does this mod disable the green lines for the signal in map view?

 

Yes, it disables the stock CommNet/RemoteTech ones, but it replaces them with its own.

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by ValynEritai

[JediRangerkendor]

So how come the ones from Blue Dog haven't been patched?

[ValynEritai]

30 minutes ago, JediRangerkendor said:

So how come the ones from Blue Dog haven't been patched?

No-one's had the time to do them. Until now.

Yep, I just did them. Fair warning, they may be horribly unbalanced, but I've done them as close to what you'd expect them to be judging by the description and calculated values.

[ragusila]

11 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@ragusila It should work without problems with RealFuels (don't know about RO itself, but I don't see why it shouldn't).

Probably you want to create a custom profile, especially for the ISRU chemical processes. I had to compromise and stock-ified the sabatier, anthraquinone and hydrazine production processes. But I left notes about them (it is all in Default.cfg). So for instance here I stock-ified Methane as LiquidFuel.

Process
{
  name = sabatier process
  modifier = _Sabatier
  input = [email protected]
  input = [email protected]
  input = [email protected]
  output = [email protected]
  output = [email protected] // ([email protected])
}

 

Also, perhaps most importantly, the Default profile is really assuming Kerbin day length. You could tweak the kerbal rules consumption rates (and/or intervals) to adapt them to 24h day length. Shouldn't be terribly hard.

It is okay if you post the custom profile here (or the set of patches, or whatever turn out to be necessary), no problem.

awesome, thanks! Love your wiki, read it and now will try to apply it to the antennas and the pods in RaiderNick's mods. I havent moded things before, so this should be fun

[ragusila]

@ShotgunNinja looking to modify things for the 24h day. The rate of eating seems prety straight forward, modified the rule as follows:

Rule
  {
    name = eating
    input = Food
    output = Waste
    rate = 3.145 // 1.77 Kg per-day
    interval = 43200.0 // 2 meals per-day //old one was 10800
    degeneration = 0.03333 // 30 meals, 15 days
    warning_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is hungry
    danger_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is starving
    fatal_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL starved to death
    relax_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is enjoying some snacks right now
  }
 

What I am not clear on is the degeneration...tried to understand on wiki.  It is 1/30, but not clear how it works....

Also for Climatization

Rule
  {
    name = climatization
    input = ElectricCharge
    rate = 0.0002 // per-kelvin (temp diff), per m^3 (living space), per-second
    degeneration = 0.00000345 // 30min
    modifier = temperature,volume,per_capita
    warning_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL feels cold|$ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is sweating
    danger_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is freezing to death|$ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is burning alive
    fatal_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL froze to death|$ON_VESSEL$KERBAL was burned alive
    relax_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL hypothermia is under control|$ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is hugging the climatizer
  }

I assume I dont need to modify the rate, as it is per second, not day. However, what is the degeneration in this case?

cheers, and there will be more questions. Let me know if they get annoying or if these are well explained somewhere else. 

EDIT: 

new question, for breathing there was not rate set, so I assume the default sets in at 1/second. As such, I will make the rate=4 to consume 4 times less than before

  Rule
  {
    name = breathing
    input = Oxygen
    output = WasteAtmosphere
    rate = 0.02758 // 0.84 Kg per-day
    interval = 4 // 4 times longer than the previous value
    degeneration = 0.0055555 // 3 minutes
    modifier = breathable
    warning_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL can't breathe
    danger_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is suffocating
    fatal_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL suffocated to death
    relax_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is breathing again
  }

Edited January 11, 2017 by ragusila

[ValynEritai]

I'd just like to say that if anyone is using my patches for Sounding Rockets and Bluedog, PLEASE redownload my latest commit. I mucked up the antenna ranges, plus forgot about a lot of Bluedog probe cores, and indeed my initial commit was WAY out of balance. so it should be all updated and fine now if you wish to use them. If you haven't been using them, rest assured they should be working fine for 1.1.9.

Edited January 11, 2017 by ValynEritai

[ragusila]

wondering how the Nitrogen Pressurization works...is it supposed to require a lot of storage space? I am trying to set up the Salyut station, and everything adds up corectly, Food is at 85days, oxygen at 100+. water at 100+ and Nitrogen is at 7h. 

To get the Nitrogen at closer to the correct duration, 100+ days, I need a giant tank and 8 extra tons

is this something expected, and thus I should modify the parts ( make them lighter, add in the tank capacity in the part), or am I missing something?

[MaxZhao]

1 hour ago, ValynEritai said:

I'd just like to say that if anyone is using my patches for Sounding Rockets and Bluedog, PLEASE redownload my latest commit. I mucked up the antenna ranges, plus forgot about a lot of Bluedog probe cores, and indeed my initial commit was WAY out of balance. so it should be all updated and fine now if you wish to use them. If you haven't been using them, rest assured they should be working fine for 1.1.9.

 

 

Thanks a lot! I've been looking forward to this a lot! I'm also trying to learn about MM patches so this will be an excellent material!

 

Edit: had a look at the patch, awesome! But I noticed that you've also added internal antennas for bluedog probe cores, isn't this inconsistent with all the kerbalism setting where all internal antennas are disabled?

Edited January 11, 2017 by MaxZhao

[ShotgunNinja]

@ragusila

Each rule is executed every interval seconds. If interval is zero (the default), it is executed continuously. So rate is the amount of resource consumed per-second (if interval is zero) or per-interval (if interval is more than zero). When the rule is executed, if the resource amount required is not available (or, if the rule doesn't require a resource) then an internal accumulator (of a specific kerbal, for that specific rule) is incremented by degeneration value. So, degeneration is expressed as increment of this accumulator per-second (if interval is zero) or per-interval (if interval is more than zero). When the accumulator reach fatal_threshold (that default to 1.0) then the kerbal die (or an unplanned event is triggered on the vessel, if breakdown is true).

Both rate and degeneration are multiplied by modifiers before being used. For example, the breathable modifier value is 0.0 if the vessel is inside a breathable atmosphere, and 1.0 otherwise. So a rule using the breathable modifier will effectively have a rate and degeneration of 0.0 when inside a breathable atmosphere.

 

The pressure control ECLSS module use Nitrogen to produce Atmosphere (an invisible pseudo-resource). The level (as in, the amount divided by capacity) of Atmosphere in a vessel determine the pressure. The capacity of Atmosphere in a vessel depend on the internal habitable volume. So bigger vessels require more Nitrogen to stay pressurized. In Default.cfg, the pressure control ECLSS module include a little amount of Nitrogen, that is only okay for very small vessels and very short missions. The player is expected to add Nitrogen tanks to bigger vessels and/or longer missions (there is a configurable radial tank included that can store it, available in 3 sizes).

[podbaydoor]

A question, a bug, and an idea:

1) What's the state of the stock comms and Kerbalism science interaction? If I disable Kerbalism's signal system in Settings.cfg will background science data transmission work? I remember this was part of the motivation for keeping Kerbalism's signals system around. Has anyone tried using the new stock signal system on recent builds?

2) In the 1.1.3-compatible version of Kerbalism, the resource slider state for food and oxygen got saved along with the vessel. That doesn't appear to be working anymore. I have a vessel tuned for a 22-day Minmus trip and have to reset the sliders in the VAB before each launch, lest I fall short in dV on return. This keeps me from launching straight out of the pad menu, too.

3) Engines should get a huge reliability penalty while they are running and each time they re-light. The reliability buffs in the tech tree should substantially correct this. In the early game I don't even notice reliability, but if I increase the overall failure rate I can't get probes out to places like Eeloo in the mid/late-game. Your derpy early-game space program should feel derpy!

On Kerbalism v1.1.6

Edited January 11, 2017 by podbaydoor
added bit about reliability

[ragusila]

On 1/6/2017 at 7:29 PM, ShotgunNinja said:

 

@basedBronson Yes write the following in a file with .cfg extension, and put it anywhere inside GameData folder:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[Antenna]]:FINAL
{
  @MODULE[Antenna]
  {
    @dist *= 10.0 // change the multiplier to fit your solar system
  }
}

 

 

I like how you made the antennas longer. Is it correct to apply the same approach to mtbf? Since I am converting to 24h days, I dont want my parts to fail 4 times faster

@PART[*]:HAS??
  {
      mtbf *= 4

  }

Not sure what to add at HAS??.

[ShotgunNinja]

@podbaydoor

1) Bakground data transmission will work with Signal, RemoteTech or CommNet.

2) I'll take a look, but can you try to see if that's the case in 1.1.8?

3) The reliability has no concept of a module being in use or not. Also, manufacturing quality is not influenced by technology anymore (from 1.1.5+), instead it is selected per-component in the vab (the 'quality' button, in part UI).

 

@ragusila Yes of course.

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[Reliability]]:FINAL
{
  @MODULE[Reliability]
  {
    @mtbf *= 4.0
  }
}

 

[ragusila]

5 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@podbaydoor

1) Bakground data transmission will work with Signal, RemoteTech or CommNet.

2) I'll take a look, but can you try to see if that's the case in 1.1.8?

3) The reliability has no concept of a module being in use or not. Also, manufacturing quality is not influenced by technology anymore (from 1.1.5+), instead it is selected per-component in the vab (the 'quality' button, in part UI).

 

@ragusila Yes of course.

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[Reliability]]:FINAL
{
  @MODULE[Reliability]
  {
    @mtbf *= 4.0
  }
}

 

Slick!! Man, this modding business is fun. 
I see where you are going with the Nitrogen -> Atmo. Since RaiderNick's ships have very different sizes and look realistic, I will probably make them all ships leak-proof so they dont need giant tanks. I love the idea of still needing Nitrogen to re-presurize them. I see a lot of fun in putting all the crew to a small, shielded capsule, depressurize the big ship, then put them all back when going thru radiation belts. Maybe when I learn to do some better modding, I will try to implement a fire failure, where you have to depressurize that part of the ship.
To get the ships to be leakproof I tried 

 Process
  {
    name = atmo leaks
    modifier = surface,breathable
    input = [email protected] // (really small number)
  }

and it seemed to do the trick

[mikegarrison]

1 hour ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@ragusila

Each rule is executed every interval seconds. If interval is zero (the default), it is executed continuously. So rate is the amount of resource consumed per-second (if interval is zero) or per-interval (if interval is more than zero). When the rule is executed, if the resource amount required is not available (or, if the rule doesn't require a resource) then an internal accumulator (of a specific kerbal, for that specific rule) is incremented by degeneration value. So, degeneration is expressed as increment of this accumulator per-second (if interval is zero) or per-interval (if interval is more than zero). When the accumulator reach fatal_threshold (that default to 1.0) then the kerbal die (or an unplanned event is triggered on the vessel, if breakdown is true).

Both rate and degeneration are multiplied by modifiers before being used. For example, the breathable modifier value is 0.0 if the vessel is inside a breathable atmosphere, and 1.0 otherwise. So a rule using the breathable modifier will effectively have a rate and degeneration of 0.0 when inside a breathable atmosphere.

 

The pressure control ECLSS module use Nitrogen to produce Atmosphere (an invisible pseudo-resource). The level (as in, the amount divided by capacity) of Atmosphere in a vessel determine the pressure. The capacity of Atmosphere in a vessel depend on the internal habitable volume. So bigger vessels require more Nitrogen to stay pressurized. In Default.cfg, the pressure control ECLSS module include a little amount of Nitrogen, that is only okay for very small vessels and very short missions. The player is expected to add Nitrogen tanks to bigger vessels and/or longer missions (there is a configurable radial tank included that can store it, available in 3 sizes).

Have you considered adding some even bigger tanks, possibly in-line rather than radial? Ditto for the supplies?

I ask because any really ambitious long duration ships or stations can require lots and lots of tanks -- particularly nitrogen because it can't be generated from water like oxygen or hydrogen. This can run up the part count in a way that could be avoided if you had some bigger tanks and crates.

For instance, you have size 0, size 1, and size 2 supply containers. How about a size 3? And maybe an in-line size 2 and size 3 tank for gasses?

Also, some mod sets include specialized airlock parts (for aesthetic purposes, mainly). It would be neat if you could, for instance, cut your nitrogen loss in half if you have an airlock on your ship.

Edited January 12, 2017 by mikegarrison

[ockidj]

The ksp comms network icon are gone. Did it remove features as well? remote control, relay ect.

[JediRangerkendor]

Cheers on the Blue Dog fix! Now if only i could figure out how to boost the efficiency of the scrubbers... 

[lordcirth]

1 minute ago, JediRangerkendor said:

Cheers on the Blue Dog fix! Now if only i could figure out how to boost the efficiency of the scrubbers... 

If I remember correctly, scrubber efficiency gets buffed passively by certain tech tree advancements.  Should show in blue text on the tech tree node descriptions.

[JediRangerkendor]

2 minutes ago, lordcirth said:

If I remember correctly, scrubber efficiency gets buffed passively by certain tech tree advancements.  Should show in blue text on the tech tree node descriptions.

I hope so. They dont seem to be doing a good enough job for a 3 man crew in the BDB Kane Capsule....

[ValynEritai]

6 hours ago, MaxZhao said:

Thanks a lot! I've been looking forward to this a lot! I'm also trying to learn about MM patches so this will be an excellent material!

 

Edit: had a look at the patch, awesome! But I noticed that you've also added internal antennas for bluedog probe cores, isn't this inconsistent with all the kerbalism setting where all internal antennas are disabled?

 

 

 

Actually, the antennas are merely set to INTERNAL in CommNet, I had this thought too, then had another thought that it could just be to get the ship into the atmosphere, then antennas can be deployed afterwards so they don't snap under dynamic pressure.

If this is all wrong, I'll be happy to change this in a new commit.

EDIT: Based on some feedback, some playtesting and some realisation, the internal antennas are gone and I've made the antenna ranges a lot shorter as they are based on IRL antennae and we haven't got many that can get past Mars, especially considering these Bluedog antennae are so small compared to others..

Edited January 12, 2017 by ValynEritai

[ragusila]

@ShotgunNinja The mtbf modification worked great! So I kept trying to see if the "rate" can be set up the same way, so I dont have to modify each rule manually (and make it easier to modify future rules).

So i tried variations of 

@Profile:HAS[@Rule[*]]:FINAL
{
    @Rule[*]
    {
     @rate *= 400.0
    }
}

I also replaced Profile with PART, tried a few things but I am still learning how to use MM patches. Do you have any ideas? (I made the rule *= 400 so i can see if it is modified easily).

Also a question on Modding workflow, and please let me know if there are any good references for this. Do you modify each cfg file and then start the game to see the effects? It seems like it takes forever to load the game to just test modifications. Any faster way to understand the effects?

cheers

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

@ragusila  you can't edit profiles via MM patches. See https://github.com/ShotgunNinja/Kerbalism/pull/56#issuecomment-271663949, with relevant bit here for your convenience.

Quote

The profile is parsed before MM apply the patches, because it is used to determine features to enable, that are then injected as MM patches themselves. That is why any MM patch targeting a profile will be ignored. Not only that, but in the profile itself no MM directives can be used.

It is a limitation that is not desiderable, but I don't know if that can be improved in future without rethinking the whole MM patch injection system.

Easiest way to achieve what you want seems to be making a copy of default profile, adjusting the values you want using a text editor, and simply using that profile instead of the Default one.