[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[Zombie_Striker]

On 10/18/2017 at 6:34 AM, carmenara said:

My favorite mod from 1.3. Has anyone tried running this on 1.3.1?

I have. Seems to work.

[Scotskerb]

I've been told that with Kerbalism, solar panels only work around the star with the name "Sun", rendering this mod incompatible with star packs. I was wondering if you could maybe change that?

[John Nowak]

On 10/18/2017 at 6:34 AM, carmenara said:

My favorite mod from 1.3. Has anyone tried running this on 1.3.1?

Yes, so far so good. Note that there's some code earlier in this thread that needs to be added to a config so the parts will be visible in the VAB.

[John Nowak]

On 10/19/2017 at 7:16 PM, Zombie_Striker said:

My favorite mod from 1.3. Has anyone tried running this on 1.3.1?

Just ran into a problem. I'm still very early in a career game, and while Jeb was up in the first orbital flight (using the solar panels from the Surface Experiment pack, insanely enough) I went back to the space center, checked my contracts, returned to Jeb, and found his cabin atmosphere was around 20% CO2. 

I bounced the scrubber and the levels started to drop, but Jeb's CO2 poisoning levels were still going up, so I aborted and was able to get Jeb home in time. 

Another user on this thread mentioned a different problem which went away when he did surgery on Cryo Tanks, so I've pulled both Cryo Tanks and Cryo Engines from my install. We'll see how that goes, but I'm not sure when I'll be able to say.

Failing that, it might be possible to edit Kerbalism's background simulation parameters to keep CO2 from building up. 

[John Nowak]

And I'm happy to say that removing Cryo Tanks and Cryo Engines fixed the incompatibility. 

One point that might be worth looking into is that the CryoTanks DLL which causes problems for Kerbalism (IIRC) handles the way cryonic fuels bleed off over time. This sort of thing - depleting resources in the background - is kind of what Kerbalism does, so it should be possible to set up a configuration edit for Kerbalism which performs the same function. So then you can delete the DLL and Bob's your uncle.

[BlitzThomas]

Hello, i love your mod but is there a way to configure the pause when a message shows up?
Thanks for your job.

[tarkhil]

Looks like Kerbalism breaks science transfer by ShipManifest. Is it a bug or a feature?

[John Nowak]

1 hour ago, tarkhil said:

Looks like Kerbalism breaks science transfer by ShipManifest. Is it a bug or a feature?

Kerbalism will move the Science and Samples into a command pod automatically. I'd call it different.

[tarkhil]

1 hour ago, John Nowak said:

Kerbalism will move the Science and Samples into a command pod automatically. I'd call it different.

Ok, but why can't I reset experiments?

[lordcirth]

1 hour ago, tarkhil said:

Ok, but why can't I reset experiments?

Can't reset them how?  With a scientist EVA'ing next to it?  That should work; it works for me.

[John Nowak]

2 hours ago, tarkhil said:

Ok, but why can't I reset experiments?

I haven't run into this one yet. So your scientists cannot reset a Goo Canister?

[Magzimum]

Is there any way to force greenhouses to only use natural light?

Their EC consumption is huge, and I just do not want to stack so many batteries onto the greenhouses to make them last through the night (a test in Sandbox revealed that a greenhouse on the launchpad will consume about 30000 EC per Kerbin night). I love the greenhouses, but at such a cost, I might as well just stack more food onto the rocket. Plus it feels to me that it is just not correct.

Does anyone perhaps know where to find the file where the EC consumption of the greenhouses is determined? I'd almost like to take a peek, to ensure there is no typo in the file.

Pictured: what it takes for a greenhouse to get through the night on the Launchpad. My problem is that the nights on Duna are 3 times as long.

---

Unrelated to the above:

5 hours ago, BlitzThomas said:

Hello, i love your mod but is there a way to configure the pause when a message shows up?
Thanks for your job.

@BlitzThomas, Click on the Kerbalism icon when in the game, then click on a particular ship, then at the bottom, there is a little menu. You need "cfg" (configure), and disable the message popping up. As far as I know, the game will always pause for a warning, but if you don't want to see the warning, it won't pause either.

[tarkhil]

52 minutes ago, John Nowak said:

I haven't run into this one yet. So your scientists cannot reset a Goo Canister?

yes, in mobile lab menu there is no more option "reset experiment". And I cannot move science to different vessel to return it to Kerbin.

Right now I've restarted my game without Kerbalism

[Magzimum]

11 minutes ago, tarkhil said:

yes, in mobile lab menu there is no more option "reset experiment". And I cannot move science to different vessel to return it to Kerbin.

Right now I've restarted my game without Kerbalism

Can your scientist go on an EVA, and manually restore the experiment? (He or she has to get close to the experiment, then you right click on the science experiment, and it should say "Restore")?

[lordcirth]

1 hour ago, tarkhil said:

yes, in mobile lab menu there is no more option "reset experiment". And I cannot move science to different vessel to return it to Kerbin.

Right now I've restarted my game without Kerbalism

Kerbalism changes the stock lab, so it doesn't have that feature anymore.  You can still do it with a scientist EVA, just like in stock.

As for moving science, yes you can: right click on the command pod you want to move it to, and hit "Transfer Data Here", and you're done.

[John Nowak]

1 hour ago, tarkhil said:

yes, in mobile lab menu there is no more option "reset experiment". And I cannot move science to different vessel to return it to Kerbin.

I don't think that feature is available in stock KSP any more. In the recent releases, a Scientist on EVA can reset the experiments; it's not done by the lab. 

[Zombie_Striker]

On 10/21/2017 at 2:58 PM, John Nowak said:

Just ran into a problem. I'm still very early in a career game, and while Jeb was up in the first orbital flight (using the solar panels from the Surface Experiment pack, insanely enough) I went back to the space center, checked my contracts, returned to Jeb, and found his cabin atmosphere was around 20% CO2. 

I bounced the scrubber and the levels started to drop, but Jeb's CO2 poisoning levels were still going up, so I aborted and was able to get Jeb home in time. 

Another user on this thread mentioned a different problem which went away when he did surgery on Cryo Tanks, so I've pulled both Cryo Tanks and Cryo Engines from my install. We'll see how that goes, but I'm not sure when I'll be able to say.

Failing that, it might be possible to edit Kerbalism's background simulation parameters to keep CO2 from building up. 

Odd. Are you sure you have a CO2 tank? Scrubbers move the CO2 from the habitats into those tanks, and if you do not have any, the scrubbers do not do anything.

2 hours ago, Magzimum said:

Is there any way to force greenhouses to only use natural light?

Their EC consumption is huge, and I just do not want to stack so many batteries onto the greenhouses to make them last through the night (a test in Sandbox revealed that a greenhouse on the launchpad will consume about 30000 EC per Kerbin night). I love the greenhouses, but at such a cost, I might as well just stack more food onto the rocket. Plus it feels to me that it is just not correct.

Does anyone perhaps know where to find the file where the EC consumption of the greenhouses is determined? I'd almost like to take a peek, to ensure there is no typo in the file.

Pictured: what it takes for a greenhouse to get through the night on the Launchpad. My problem is that the nights on Duna are 3 times as long.

---

Unrelated to the above:

@BlitzThomas, Click on the Kerbalism icon when in the game, then click on a particular ship, then at the bottom, there is a little menu. You need "cfg" (configure), and disable the message popping up. As far as I know, the game will always pause for a warning, but if you don't want to see the warning, it won't pause either.

Greenhouses should use sunlight over EC if they are in direct sunlight. Though you are right about the insane amount of EC it requires per second. Unless you are orbiting the planet, greenhouses are only really good once you have set up a massive base that already has large amounts of unused EC compared to the day/night lengths (I.e, not the Mun, or any other moon with night lengths longer than a couple of days).

[John Nowak]

3 minutes ago, Zombie_Striker said:

Odd. Are you sure you have a CO2 tank?

Works fine since I dropped CryoTanks.

[JadeOfMaar]

On 10/13/2017 at 2:02 AM, nanomage said:

Hi, thanks and this is an awesome mod. Consistent background processing is just so brilliant, and nice realisticish ISRU is a cherry on top of the cake!

So, I've got a few ISRU questions

- is it possible/planned to be able to extract carbon and nitrogen from non-atmospheric bodies (modelling extraction of methane clathrates, methane ice, carbonaceous chondritic material, nitrates or even nitrogen ice if extremely far from the sun)? If not currently implemented would patches with these processes be welcome?

- Is there a way to forgo nitrogen pressurisation and go apollo-style with a 0.2-0.4 bar pure oxygen atmosphere instead, sacrificing some crew comfort for elimination of nitrogen from the life support chain?

- is there an ability lo liquefy hydrogen to use in CryogenicEngines/KerbalAtomics? 

These options aren't likely to happen (officially) in Kerbalism anytime soon (granted ShotgunNinja's ever growing absence ), but all of these (except the Apollo thing, for me anyway) are easily doable and I wonder why so few options are provided to begin with for harvesting resources. Someone would have to be found who is up to writing the requird drill modules and resource distributions, and then unofficially share it around.  

Interstellar Fuel Switch provides an "ISRU Refrigerator" or two which enables conversions between gas and liquid forms of many resources, and tanks for absolutely every resource. The option for H2 <-> LH2 should be in there already.

 

2 hours ago, Magzimum said:

Is there any way to force greenhouses to only use natural light?

Their EC consumption is huge, and I just do not want to stack so many batteries onto the greenhouses to make them last through the night (a test in Sandbox revealed that a greenhouse on the launchpad will consume about 30000 EC per Kerbin night). I love the greenhouses, but at such a cost, I might as well just stack more food onto the rocket. Plus it feels to me that it is just not correct.

Does anyone perhaps know where to find the file where the EC consumption of the greenhouses is determined? I'd almost like to take a peek, to ensure there is no typo in the file.

Pictured: what it takes for a greenhouse to get through the night on the Launchpad. My problem is that the nights on Duna are 3 times as long.

Open GameData\Kerbalism\Profiles\Default.cfg to find the greenhouse settings. The current parameter is "ec_rate = 2.5". I assume nerfing this is all you need to do.

[lordcirth]

1 hour ago, Zombie_Striker said:

Odd. Are you sure you have a CO2 tank? Scrubbers move the CO2 from the habitats into those tanks, and if you do not have any, the scrubbers do not do anything.

CO2 is set as a 'dump' resource for a scrubber.  A scrubber will work even if there's nowhere to put the CO2; it will just be dumped overboard.

[nanomage]

On 22/10/2017 at 5:58 AM, John Nowak said:

Just ran into a problem. I'm still very early in a career game, and while Jeb was up in the first orbital flight (using the solar panels from the Surface Experiment pack, insanely enough) I went back to the space center, checked my contracts, returned to Jeb, and found his cabin atmosphere was around 20% CO2. 

I bounced the scrubber and the levels started to drop, but Jeb's CO2 poisoning levels were still going up, so I aborted and was able to get Jeb home in time. 

Another user on this thread mentioned a different problem which went away when he did surgery on Cryo Tanks, so I've pulled both Cryo Tanks and Cryo Engines from my install. We'll see how that goes, but I'm not sure when I'll be able to say.

Failing that, it might be possible to edit Kerbalism's background simulation parameters to keep CO2 from building up. 

I think the scrubber thing is an issue caused indirectly by cryotanks - i ran into it as well and 'fixed' it by removing cryotanks boiloff plugin (which i suspect is a really crude and bad way). Cryotanks has a dll that probably does retroactive modelling for electric charge consumption, and kerbalism generally breaks horribly with mods that can do that.

For me the conflict took the form of huge parasite drain of electric charge on a vessel immediately after load and that lead to the scrubber going off, and CO2 building up in the atmosphere, and then in kerbals, which sounds very much like what you described. Real space crew would start mask-breathing oxygen in this case but it looks like this is not implemented. Just turning the scrubber on is useless because it needs days to work through the elevated CO2 content anyway.

2 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

These options aren't likely to happen (officially) in Kerbalism anytime soon (granted ShotgunNinja's ever growing absence ), but all of these (except the Apollo thing, for me anyway) are easily doable and I wonder why so few options are provided to begin with for harvesting resources. Someone would have to be found who is up to writing the requird drill modules and resource distributions, and then unofficially share it around.  

Interstellar Fuel Switch provides an "ISRU Refrigerator" or two which enables conversions between gas and liquid forms of many resources, and tanks for absolutely every resource. The option for H2 <-> LH2 should be in there already.

 

Open GameData\Kerbalism\Profiles\Default.cfg to find the greenhouse settings. The current parameter is "ec_rate = 2.5". I assume nerfing this is all you need to do.

Thanks for the reply!

If any of the other mods' ISRU processes are used (like Ore -> Hydrolox, or Ore->Lithium that I think cryotanks and NFT do, or the refrigeration that you mention IFS does), is kerbalism able simulate them in the background?

If the answer for that is going to be no, I think I'll try adding the liquefaction processes to profiles/default.cfg and attaching them to the ISRU converters to make them kerbalism processes, for the start.

Edited October 23, 2017 by nanomage

[JadeOfMaar]

@nanomage I don't know if ISRU modules outside of Kerbalism work in the background. I only added what it already provides, into an inline air harvester in my mod, Airline Kuisine. I didn't go beyond that in my exploration of Kerbalism's workings.

[Magzimum]

8 hours ago, Zombie_Striker said:

Greenhouses should use sunlight over EC if they are in direct sunlight. Though you are right about the insane amount of EC it requires per second. Unless you are orbiting the planet, greenhouses are only really good once you have set up a massive base that already has large amounts of unused EC compared to the day/night lengths (I.e, not the Mun, or any other moon with night lengths longer than a couple of days).

Pity. I would love to use them on my Duna base. Plants can survive in the dark just fine, and greenhouses don't need light 24/7. I wish I could just turn the lights off, and suffer a penalty in food production.

Right now, the greenhouse eats up all the EC, and after that my poor Kerbals freeze to death after life support fails.

Thanks for the feedback anyway. I do have an orbital Duna station too, but I had hoped to leave my Kerbals on the surface a little longer before the long trip back. Hopefully the radiation will not be too much. I would really like to have a succesful Duna mission with Kerbalism once. Too many have failed already (radiation, more radiation, and critical system failures).

[John Nowak]

11 hours ago, nanomage said:

think the scrubber thing is an issue caused indirectly by cryotanks ...

Yes, that's exactly right. I think you posted on this before and removed Cryotanks from my install. It seems to have fixed the issue.

It should be possible to get Kerbalism to handle boil off anyway. I need to look into that once I get MOLE sorted out.

[CatastrophicFailure]

8 hours ago, Magzimum said:

Right now, the greenhouse eats up all the EC, and after that my poor Kerbals freeze to death after life support fails.

I’m not at my computer right now and can’t verify this, but you might be able to use the scripting system to simply turn the greenhouses off at night.