[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[NomenNescio]

6 minutes ago, HaullyGames said:

You are my official tester!

Any issue about Kerbalism-Continue, you will be responsible. 

Your title is Tester/Quality Control.

Every time that you test and find issue, this mean that when I play, I won't have issue! 

Let's start with the code to get these containers working properly xD

[HaullyGames]

Just now, NomenNescio said:

Let's start with the code to get these containers working properly xD

I will be home in 1 hour.

This mean I can test the code.

Did you test these files that I shared to you?

[Whovian41110]

2 minutes ago, NomenNescio said:

Let's start with the code to get these containers working properly xD

And then the cool spinny space wheels? 

[NomenNescio]

1 minute ago, HaullyGames said:

I will be home in 1 hour.

This mean I can test the code.

Did you test these files that I shared to you?

Not yet. I assume I place them in Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Kerbalism\Support, what am I looking for when I fire up the game?

[HaullyGames]

Hey guys.

Please connect there

I'm losing my mind here.

Edited March 4, 2018 by HaullyGames

[HaullyGames]

14 hours ago, Dr. Jet said:

Input: 65.5% CO₂, 24.6% Water and 9.9% Fertilizer

Output: 47.64% O₂, 50.2% Food, 2.16% Waste

Is it right?

    // 1crop /(rate) 0.00000023148 = 4,320,027.65 seconds = 200 days (Kerbin's day)
    // 2500 units * 0.281Kg = 702.5Kg of food
    // 50.2% of OUTPUT = Food
    // TOTAL OUTPUT = 1,399.4023Kg
    // INPUT
    //    65.5% CO2(0.001951Kg/unit)  = 916.6085Kg  = 469,814.71 units = 0.10875270/s
    //    24.6% Water(1Kg/unit)       = 344.2529Kg  =     344.25 units = 0.00007968/s
    //    9.9% Fertilizer(1Kg/unit)   = 138.5408Kg  =     138.54 units = 0.00003206/s
    //
    // OUTPUT
    //    47.64% O2(0.00141Kg/unit)   = 666.6752Kg  = 472,819.29 units = 0.10944820/s
    //    50.2% Food (0.281Kg/unit)   = 702.4999Kg  =   2,500.00 units = Only when harvest
    //    2.16% Waste (0.75Kg/unit)   =  30.2270Kg  =      40.30 units = 0.00000932/s

Now we need less water

The old greenhouse has waste water, do we need calculate it?

Edited February 16, 2018 by HaullyGames

[Antstar]

11 hours ago, HaullyGames said:

You can't stop to give water, CO₂ to a plant for a year and assume that plant will still alive.

Literally I'm on my way overseas right now. It's great that this mod is finally getting updated, but I have no ksp for 3 months... my laptop would burn if I tried to run it

Anyway just wanted to point out that you should be able to activate winter mode in plants by lowering temp and light. Then they should not grow but not die for a while - but with a small fraction of the life requirement

[NomenNescio]

When I try to load up this mod with SSPXr and only those two mods I get this error: 

And the game won't start.

I can load up the game with just SSPXr installed no problem. It's only once I install Kerbalism-continued, that the error occurs.

Edited February 16, 2018 by NomenNescio

[HaullyGames]

3 hours ago, NomenNescio said:

When I try to load up this mod with SSPXr and only those two mods I get this error: 

And the game won't start.

I can load up the game with just SSPXr installed no problem. It's only once I install Kerbalism-continued, that the error occurs.

As we saw, B9PartSwitch depend of Community Resource Pack, this was the issue!

[Box of Stardust]

Hey guys, I see you're all busy, but I got a quick question that I don't remember if anything came out of the first time it was asked. Can Kerbalism be configured to only use its background processing and nothing else from the mod? (Well, maybe that and its incredibly useful ship status UI.) The 'Background Processing' standalone mod... uh, doesn't seem to work as intended right now, but I know Kerbalism's does (I'd just uninstalled it due to wanting a less suicidal life support mod lol).

I remember the answer being 'no', but that was a long time ago. And I don't think it's as simple as setting the config in the settings to 'none'.

[HaullyGames]

1 minute ago, Box of Stardust said:

Hey guys, I see you're all busy, but I got a quick question that I don't remember if anything came out of the first time it was asked. Can Kerbalism be configured to only use its background processing and nothing else from the mod? (Well, maybe that and its incredibly useful ship status UI.) The 'Background Processing' standalone mod... uh, doesn't seem to work as intended right now, but I know Kerbalism's does (I'd just uninstalled it due to wanting a less suicidal life support mod lol).

I remember the answer being 'no', but that was a long time ago. And I don't think it's as simple as setting the config in the settings to 'none'.

To separate Background from Kerbalim, you will need recreate Kerbalism.
Background process involve a lot of things, but the mainly one is the cache system.

[Drew Kerman]

1 hour ago, Box of Stardust said:

The 'Background Processing' standalone mod... uh, doesn't seem to work as intended right now

Go check the thread again. It could be revived soon

[HaullyGames]

Can anyone explain the WasteAtmosphere & Atmosphere?
I thought it was CO₂ & O₂ , but it's not.
These looks like a representation of a mixture of gases in an atmosphere, but I'm not sure

  // convention: 1 capacity = enough to compensate for leaks in 70 m^2 surface (a cube of 40 m^3 volume)
  Process
  {
    name = pressure control
    modifier = _PressureControl
    input = [email protected]
    input = [email protected]
    output = [email protected]
    dump = false
  }

// convention: 1 capacity = enough to scrub output of 1 crew memeber
  Process
  {
    name = scrubber
    modifier = _Scrubber
    input = [email protected]
    input = [email protected]
    output = [email protected]
  }

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by HaullyGames

[lordcirth]

4 hours ago, HaullyGames said:

Can anyone explain the WasteAtmosphere & Atmosphere?
I thought it was CO₂ & O₂ , but it's not.
These looks like a representation of a mixture of gases in an atmosphere, but I'm not sure

  // convention: 1 capacity = enough to compensate for leaks in 70 m^2 surface (a cube of 40 m^3 volume)
  Process
  {
    name = pressure control
    modifier = _PressureControl
    input = ElectricCharge@0.3
    input = Nitrogen@0.35
    output = Atmosphere@0.00035
    dump = false
  }

// convention: 1 capacity = enough to scrub output of 1 crew memeber
  Process
  {
    name = scrubber
    modifier = _Scrubber
    input = ElectricCharge@0.025
    input = WasteAtmosphere@0.00002
    output = CarbonDioxide@0.02
  }

 

As I understand it:

Atmosphere represents "fresh air", ie Earthlike Nitrogen / Oxygen mix.  The Oxygen is not actually calculated as part of Pressure Control.  WasteAtmosphere is "used air", so Nitrogen + CO2.  Scrubbers turn WasteAtmosphere into Atmosphere (put back in the capsule) and CO2, which is stored or dumped.  Atmosphere also leaks proportional to hab surface area, which is why we need Nitrogen tanks for long trips.  Oxygen is not considered to leak, presumably for simplicity of calculation, which I think is why it's not listed under Pressure Control.

Edited February 18, 2018 by lordcirth

[Taki117]

What do I delete to get just the parts from this mod? This seems to be the only one with the parts I need/want, but I don't want all the extra realism stuff.

[Antstar]

3 hours ago, lordcirth said:

As I understand it:

Atmosphere represents "fresh air", ie Earthlike Nitrogen / Oxygen mix.  The Oxygen is not actually calculated as part of Pressure Control.  WasteAtmosphere is "used air", so Nitrogen + CO2.  Scrubbers turn WasteAtmosphere into Atmosphere (put back in the capsule) and CO2, which is stored or dumped.  Atmosphere also leaks proportional to hab surface area, which is why we need Nitrogen tanks for long trips.  Oxygen is not considered to leak, presumably for simplicity of calculation, which I think is why it's not listed under Pressure Control.

Yeah, I figured this out. But it's kind of annoying... would it be easy to just put oxygen, nitrogen and CO2 in partial pressures? Then they can all leak. Also we could more easily code to use 35% pure O2 like apollo, for example.  Or, I liked in the Martian (book not movie) where O2 would be used for pressure control once n2 ran out...

[Dr. Jet]

On 16.02.2018 at 9:35 AM, HaullyGames said:

The old greenhouse has waste water, do we need calculate it?

Pouring wastewater into space greenhouse (aeroponic most probably) is a bad idea. You don't have soil bacteria there to convert toxic substance into something that plants can consume, also spraying nozzles can get clogged.

WasteWater processor should filter water, separate useful minerals and produce ammonia from nitrogenous solids. 

Roughly for each 1 kg of WasteWater processed we should get 0.95 kg of Water, 0.013 kg Minerals  and 0.009 kg of Ammonia. Notice that some mass is lost (jettisoned), though if you want to add oxygenous pyroliser and recover some CO₂, you may add extra input of 0.0117 kg O₂ to recieve extra output of 0.0131 kg CO₂.

 

BTW, speaking about self-sustaining colonies, those will need not only Water and Minerals, but also some sources of Nitrogen and Carbon. Carbon is easy, it's most likely to be found alongside with Oxygen when processing some Ore in potassium fluorine cycle. Though finding Nitrogen is trickier. Though it's abundant in Kerbin and Laythe atmospheres, but very scarce in Duna (Mars) and Eve (Venus) atmospheres and it's a matter of luck if it can be found in ores anywhere.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Dr. Jet

[Box of Stardust]

On 2/17/2018 at 12:12 AM, HaullyGames said:

To separate Background from Kerbalim, you will need recreate Kerbalism.
Background process involve a lot of things, but the mainly one is the cache system.

Gah. Figured; I still sorta remember when it was first asked and that was pretty much the answer.

Bit of a shame too; it'd be awesome if somehow Kerbalism's 'supporting' features could be separated from its 'gameplay' features. It has such a great package of 'universal operations support' features with its really solid background resource processing and the handy Kerbalism status window(s).

[lordcirth]

8 hours ago, Antstar said:

Yeah, I figured this out. But it's kind of annoying... would it be easy to just put oxygen, nitrogen and CO2 in partial pressures? Then they can all leak. Also we could more easily code to use 35% pure O2 like apollo, for example.  Or, I liked in the Martian (book not movie) where O2 would be used for pressure control once n2 ran out...

A lot of ShotgunNinja's design decisions were driven by performance - this code runs continuously on every craft in the game, even at max warp.  It has to be really carefully optimized.  Having just Atmosphere means that Pressure Control deals with only one resource.

[HaullyGames]

3 minutes ago, lordcirth said:

A lot of ShotgunNinja's design decisions were driven by performance - this code runs continuously on every craft in the game, even at max warp.  It has to be really carefully optimized.  Having just Atmosphere means that Pressure Control deals with only one resource.

One or three will make no difference.

About performance, has a lot of thing that needs to optimized.

I'm not saying that ShotgunNinja and his team didn't a good job (This is the best mod that I have saw, like as Professional, I learned a lot with them), but still have things to optimize.
I have a good machine, I have played with over 60 mods (many of these mods are not well designed), those are the optimize issue that I see.

[Box of Stardust]

Um, derp. Do I feel stupid now. So:

On 2/17/2018 at 12:09 AM, Box of Stardust said:

... Can Kerbalism be configured to only use its background processing and nothing else from the mod? (Well, maybe that and its incredibly useful ship status UI.) ...

... And I don't think it's as simple as setting the config in the settings to 'none'.

I've made a fantastic 'discovery'... probably because of the first time it was asked, ShotgunNinja already took care of it. Went and actually inspected what the profiles did and...

// ============================================================================
// An empty profile
// This make Kerbalism degenerate into a background resource simulator with a
// simple EC consumption planner/monitor. Optional low-ec warning included.
// ============================================================================

Profile
{
  name = none

  Supply
  {
    resource = ElectricCharge
    low_threshold = 0.15
    low_message = $VESSEL batteries are almost empty@<i>We are squeezing the last bit of juice</i>
  }
}

Was literally that. Guess I did remember some things from the original discussions way back when...

Unless something's changed within the last few patches that I'm not aware of, I guess that answers my question.

I wonder if there's any way to link other mods into Kerbalism's status UI through the configs?

Edited February 19, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[Antstar]

Well there was a big problem with ec production... again, I am not able to use ksp for a bit, so no logs, but I had a consistent problem with solar generation at warp above 100x. If it was intermittent,  like in kerbin orbit, the battery would always run out. Even if the generation on the day side was 10x the consumption.  Not a problem during interplanetary transfer, or with rtg/reactors that produce constant power.

 

NFE reactors also produced a problem... on 1% it was ok, but if you warp while the craft is selected or not, the heat builds up much faster than the radiators dissipate it- even though there are enough radiators- and the core melts...

 

EDIT- I never had any problems with the o2, n2, h2, nh3 consumption etc even at warp

Edited February 19, 2018 by Antstar

[AVaughan]

Back when I tried Kerbalism I had problems with a craft in Kerbin orbit.  I kept running low on EC.  At least once when I switched to it it was in full sunlight, roughly halfway through the day section of its orbit.  But Kerbalism though it was in shadow.  Whilst the problem would happen intermittently, loading an saving the game was enough to solve it. 

[lordcirth]

@HaullyGames, a feature request (unless it already exists).  A variable to scale *all* life support processes, so that when I play with Sigma Dimensions and it takes twice as long to get everywhere, I can just set '0.5' and play.  Right now I think I'd need to edit nearly everything in the Profiles/Default.cfg to make that work.  It's nearly impossible to do a Duna mission in 4x scale, because radiation is too high, for example.  I can set shielding to be better, I know.

[Antstar]

10 hours ago, lordcirth said:

@HaullyGames, a feature request (unless it already exists).  A variable to scale *all* life support processes, so that when I play with Sigma Dimensions and it takes twice as long to get everywhere, I can just set '0.5' and play.  Right now I think I'd need to edit nearly everything in the Profiles/Default.cfg to make that work.  It's nearly impossible to do a Duna mission in 4x scale, because radiation is too high, for example.  I can set shielding to be better, I know.

Yeah, radiation is a problem for long expeditions in this mod. Without having the game for reference,  I think a kerbal would die from radiation after 150 yrs even on the surface of kerbin. I think we can improve shielding... with no shielding or during a solar storm they should take large doses but we should be able to do better with shielding. In particular,  with nuclear engines, placing 2.5tons of water between the crew and engine should make a huge difference (though I am not suggesting this can be directly put into the game- we should have a way to temper radiation from a nuke reactor).

 

I am also thinking if Kim Stanley robbinson's red mars, where they threw dirt on top of the habs for radiation protection. We should be able to make MUCH thicker, if inefficient,  shielding once we make planetfall. I see no reason a kerbal can't spend 50 years on duna with this precaution (and limited eva time).

Not an official request at the moment, just want to hear other peoples ideas on implementation and if it practical