My dream is to work on NASA will KSP help me?

[Daniel Nobre]

Hey guys, dreamer here. Since i was 5 years old i wanted to work on NASA, and i have alot of enjoyment regarding space.

Since my studies (I'm 16 atm) will be related to space will Kerbal Space Program give even more help on study regarding space?

Also great forum i see here. Hope to make new friendships and alot of new spacial knowledge.

[Pecan]

Possibly, although it depends on what you want to DO at NASA.

The main thing KSP will help you with is an understanding of orbital mechanics and some of the issues of getting into space.  For obvious reasons KSP is simplified though, so remember:

https://xkcd.com/1244/

[AbacusWizard]

It won't get you all the way to NASA but it's sure a good start. Playing KSP--especially if you focus on designing efficient and effective vessels and flight plans--can be a great way to get an intuitive understanding of orbital mechanics, some principles of engineering, and physics in general. If you work out all the equations yourself, you can get even more practice with physics, calculus, and algebra.

Also: When you take classes in physics and calculus (if you haven't done so already), spend some time frequently throughout the year thinking about how what you're learning in each class applies to your ship designs and flight plans in KSP.

(I myself teach math and physics, and I find that I often come up with ideas for examples to use in class while I'm playing KSP. In fact just this morning I was teaching a few students about conservation of momentum using a rocket expelling exhaust as an example, and we ended up deriving a simplified version of the Tsiolkovsky Rocket Equation and talking about specific impulse, fuel percentage, and how they relates to engine efficiency.)

[SpacedCowboy]

Doing KSP could not hurt your personal aspirations at all. In fact, it could be an inspiration! 

Welcome to the forums BTW.

P.S. AbacusWizard & Pecan know what they'er talking about.

[Choctofliatrio2.0]

It can help, sure. It inspires, for one. It inspired me to want to become an aerospace engineer. It also teaches basic orbital mechanics, rocket-related stuff, etc. But it is very simplified. For one, KSP doesn't model many factors affecting rocket launches, such as how the fuel flows and weather and such. But it's an excellent starting point, and definitely can't hurt

[Dman979]

KSP is a step above most other space games, but it is not anything close to real life.

In the scale of realism, I would go (from least to most):

KSP
KSP + Realism Overhaul/Real Solar System/ Principa
Orbiter
Real Life

However, you can't go anywhere without learning some basic building blocks, and that's what KSP does really well, for me. It teaches a modified form of the scientific method, and depending on how far you take it, it can teach a lot more, too.

It's also a great way to pique your interest in space.

 

[razark]

4 hours ago, Pecan said:

...it depends on what you want to DO at NASA.

Very much this.

What do you want to do at NASA?  There's all sorts of jobs available, in just about any field.  KSP won't help you in about 99% of them.  For those jobs that it would help with, it's not going to help very much, but for some jobs, every little bit can make the difference between you and another candidate.  What you're going to want to focus on is your education, first of all.  Take the challenging classes and do well in them.  Learn to explain things in a clear and concise way.  Whatever field you choose, learn how it relates to NASA's goals.  Get some work experience in the field if at all possible, and once you get to college, keep an eye open for internship opportunities at NASA.

 

 

And if you can't handle that, there's still hope for a NASA career.  There's plenty of folks at NASA that ain't no rocket surgeons.
Like the ones that call you to write an email over the phone for them.  Or ask when the meeting was, so they can figure out what days they showed up for work.  Or say "I tried to hide things from my management, but it didn't work.  I'm being transferred on Friday."  Or...
*wanders off to sit in the corner muttering about 1130 days of testing and they still don't know what their system is capable of or even have a consistent policy on how to use it*

I'm going to go have a drink now, for reasons completely unrelated to this conversation.

[cubinator]

5 hours ago, Daniel Nobre said:

Hey guys, dreamer here. Since i was 5 years old i wanted to work on NASA, and i have alot of enjoyment regarding space.

Since my studies (I'm 16 atm) will be related to space will Kerbal Space Program give even more help on study regarding space?

Also great forum i see here. Hope to make new friendships and alot of new spacial knowledge.

I hope to see you there! 

KSP is great for learning about orbital mechanics and basic rocket design. As stated above, however, real life is much harder. I've been quite fixated on the goal of becoming an astronaut since I was very young (it's not a dream, because dreams aren't real. Goals are real and tangible). While I've always held a profound interest in space (read books about planets, stars, and their history since age 5) KSP has nurtured my interest for the more technical aspects of space travel. For instance, a few weeks ago I learned how to calculate a Hohmann transfer myself because I'd forgotten a part on my ship that would've told me when to eject. It's far from real life where you need to worry about ullage, cryogenic fuel, radiation, orbital decay, life support, signal delay, launch weather, solar weather, and random malfunctions, but it's still really fun while keeping a good chunk of realism.

As for wanting to work at NASA, there are plenty of jobs there that aren't related to rockets. Having played lots of KSP won't have been a big deal there. But if you want to be one of the ones that flies in a giant rocket, that sees the curve of the Earth, that watches the sun rise and set in less than an hour, that hovers in weightlessness, that ultimately sees the pale blue dot accompanied in the sky by Phobos and Deimos? That takes a lot of work, and having shown considerable interest in spaceflight and engineering at a young age might be a little advantage over someone who didn't show that interest.

[WillThe84th]

29 minutes ago, cubinator said:

I hope to see you there! 

KSP is great for learning about orbital mechanics and basic rocket design. As stated above, however, real life is much harder. I've been quite fixated on the goal of becoming an astronaut since I was very young (it's not a dream, because dreams aren't real. Goals are real and tangible). While I've always held a profound interest in space (read books about planets, stars, and their history since age 5) KSP has nurtured my interest for the more technical aspects of space travel. For instance, a few weeks ago I learned how to calculate a Hohmann transfer myself because I'd forgotten a part on my ship that would've told me when to eject. It's far from real life where you need to worry about ullage, cryogenic fuel, radiation, orbital decay, life support, signal delay, launch weather, solar weather, and random malfunctions, but it's still really fun while keeping a good chunk of realism.

As for wanting to work at NASA, there are plenty of jobs there that aren't related to rockets. Having played lots of KSP won't have been a big deal there. But if you want to be one of the ones that flies in a giant rocket, that sees the curve of the Earth, that watches the sun rise and set in less than an hour, that hovers in weightlessness, that ultimately sees the pale blue dot accompanied in the sky by Phobos and Deimos? That takes a lot of work, and having shown considerable interest in spaceflight and engineering at a young age might be a little advantage over someone who didn't show that interest.

I completely agree with what cubinator said. Well done sir.

As for myself, I've always been fascinated with space and KSP has only fueled my interest and made me love space even more. Once I started playing KSP seriously and started trying to make the game more realistic, I realized the sort of things that go into making a real rocket fly. I then decided that I would aspire to do something like that someday when I grow up.

[Moarmau5]

Kind of more of a fun fact than advice, but NASA actually was accepting astronaut applications not too long ago. Requirements actually seem fairly usual as well(e.g. minimum bachelor's degree in engineering or science of some sort, etc.). Except for the 1000+ logged hours piloting jet aircraft ... and the very long and tedious process of actually getting your foot in the door. 

Anyways, back to the OP. KSP is great for a bunch of reasons. Sure it's not 100% realistic, but the biggest thing I think it accomplishes, is that it makes you think. To have a game where you're constantly throughout the day thinking like "if I could get by without those few extra batteries, and maybe a little less fuel, maybe I can just get there!" Something that motivates you and makes you want to challenge yourself not because you want to show off, but because you know you can do it better some other way, is priceless. 

So no matter where you plan to end up, simply KSP won't get you there. But it can help you get the right mentality to help you achieve your ultimate goals.

PS: once again, welcome to the forums and the community! Happy flyings and study hard! 

[maceemiller]

At your age the world is your oyster and you should go for your dreams because if you dont have a plan now you may miss the boat. Get in there and make things happen for yourself!

[Daniel Nobre]

4 hours ago, cubinator said:

I hope to see you there! 

KSP is great for learning about orbital mechanics and basic rocket design. As stated above, however, real life is much harder. I've been quite fixated on the goal of becoming an astronaut since I was very young (it's not a dream, because dreams aren't real. Goals are real and tangible). While I've always held a profound interest in space (read books about planets, stars, and their history since age 5) KSP has nurtured my interest for the more technical aspects of space travel. For instance, a few weeks ago I learned how to calculate a Hohmann transfer myself because I'd forgotten a part on my ship that would've told me when to eject. It's far from real life where you need to worry about ullage, cryogenic fuel, radiation, orbital decay, life support, signal delay, launch weather, solar weather, and random malfunctions, but it's still really fun while keeping a good chunk of realism.

As for wanting to work at NASA, there are plenty of jobs there that aren't related to rockets. Having played lots of KSP won't have been a big deal there. But if you want to be one of the ones that flies in a giant rocket, that sees the curve of the Earth, that watches the sun rise and set in less than an hour, that hovers in weightlessness, that ultimately sees the pale blue dot accompanied in the sky by Phobos and Deimos? That takes a lot of work, and having shown considerable interest in spaceflight and engineering at a young age might be a little advantage over someone who didn't show that interest.

Indeed its a goal not a dream. But anything related to space atleast for me is pleasant. Sad thing is that how i can get there, like here in Portugal is hard to find opportunities related to space, and even if i am on FCT university, one of 3 most prestige of my country, i don't know if that is an good way to get in there. Like how i can get attention and everything. The funny thing is that, the challenge for me is not really the math and physics but how i can get closer to them. Now thats what is a challenge. Because it is the unknown.

5 hours ago, razark said:

Very much this.

What do you want to do at NASA?  There's all sorts of jobs available, in just about any field.  KSP won't help you in about 99% of them.  For those jobs that it would help with, it's not going to help very much, but for some jobs, every little bit can make the difference between you and another candidate.  What you're going to want to focus on is your education, first of all.  Take the challenging classes and do well in them.  Learn to explain things in a clear and concise way.  Whatever field you choose, learn how it relates to NASA's goals.  Get some work experience in the field if at all possible, and once you get to college, keep an eye open for internship opportunities at NASA.

 

 

And if you can't handle that, there's still hope for a NASA career.  There's plenty of folks at NASA that ain't no rocket surgeons.
Like the ones that call you to write an email over the phone for them.  Or ask when the meeting was, so they can figure out what days they showed up for work.  Or say "I tried to hide things from my management, but it didn't work.  I'm being transferred on Friday."  Or...
*wanders off to sit in the corner muttering about 1130 days of testing and they still don't know what their system is capable of or even have a consistent policy on how to use it*

I'm going to go have a drink now, for reasons completely unrelated to this conversation.

Well actually i'm not interested being an astronaut but "The guy who is on earth making the travel possible to astronauts."

[razark]

3 hours ago, Daniel Nobre said:

"The guy who is on earth making the travel possible to astronauts."

That covers a lot of jobs.  Flight controllers in Mission Control, space suit designers, water chemists, propulsion engineers, computer programmers, electrical engineers, food preparation technicians, scuba divers, accountants, lawyers, secretaries, printers, model builders, mailmen, technical support, janitors, firemen, etc...

There's 18,000+ people at Johnson Space Center, and all of them except for the astronauts are "The guy who is on earth making the travel possible to astronauts" in some way.

[Dman979]

3 hours ago, Daniel Nobre said:

Well actually i'm not interested being an astronaut but "The guy who is on earth making the travel possible to astronauts."

Same.

It's hard to find ways to interact with space agencies before college, but like anything, if you want it enough you can make it happen. Try looking into an internship, or even just a meeting with someone. It's better to start networking now, before you need it. In my own (very limited) experience, networking is how you find jobs. Also, you should find out about the ESA. I'm sure that there is someone you can talk to. if you do get the chance, treat it as a professional interview- you never get another chance to make a first impression, and its a networking connection. Be sure to keep in touch with someone after you've met them.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

\

But also:

Edited May 3, 2016 by Brainlord Mesomorph

[m4v]

It won't help. KSP will teach you like the first paragraph of a book of orbital mechanics, you will still need to learn the rest.

[Drethon]

To be clear, I'm a software engineer, not a rocket scientist.  So I'm good at making simplified models with some understanding of how real things work.

With KSP the big thing is make sure you don't think KSP physics is anything but a simplified model.  When you understand KSP, make sure you realize this is just an entry point into the real world of orbital mechanics, and you may have to throw out some of the simplifications along the way to understanding the real world.

Also there is a question of what do you want to do to make spaceflight possible?  From my understanding, orbital mechanics is a fairly small part that is pretty well known at this point.  Most of the work is in other areas.  Mechanical engineering to make sure the rocket can hold up against the stresses put on it.  Some mixture of chemistry, physics and other disciplines for designing new rockets and propellants.  Electrical engineering to design the electronics and wiring of the rockets.  Software engineering for guidance, communications and flight controls.  Each area is a separate path of learning.

[eddiew]

58 minutes ago, m4v said:

It won't help. KSP will teach you like the first paragraph of a book of orbital mechanics, you will still need to learn the rest.

I suspect this is the most correct answer. Ultimately KSP is a game, and astrophysics/rocket science is maths. KSP does its best to hide the maths.

When you're comfortable calculating delta-v and transfer burns by hand and never using manoeuvre nodes, then you're past the first few chapters  

[razark]

4 hours ago, Daniel Nobre said:

here in Portugal

Honestly, this right here is your biggest hurdle to getting a job at NASA.  You would need to become a US citizen to work directly for the agency.  Your best course to working with NASA may be through the ESA.

However, this does not prevent you from working for one of the many contractor companies.  There may be certain areas closed to you due to being a foreign national (After all, the difference between a rocket and a missile is where the guidance system points it.), but there are quite a few non-US citizens working at various contractors.  Contractors are where the real work is done, anyways.

[numerobis]

1 hour ago, m4v said:

It won't help. KSP will teach you like the first paragraph of a book of orbital mechanics, you will still need to learn the rest.

I disagree violently. As per the cartoon, I learned a lot more rocket science from playing KSP than from actually working at NASA. There really isn't that much demand for orbital mechanics at NASA.

What KSP teaches you that you can apply elsewhere includes: physics and the general acceptance that sometimes things actually *aren't* intuitive (aka mathematical maturity), calculus if you want to work out the physics on paper, simple programming (e.g. writing excel sheets or python scripts to plan your missions), moderately complicated programming (e.g. writing plugins), 3d modeling, texturing, and animation (making mods), distributed collaboration (if you have many people working on the mod or plugin). Be active on the forums and improve your english communication skills.

As to the OP: NASA has unbeaten prestige, but there's a lot of other agencies and companies working in space. ESA, for example. There's many companies that make rockets (SpaceX is the current heart-throb there). Many scientific organisations run satellites; USGS and NOAA in the US do a lot of this, I'm sure there are European equivalents. There isn't a whole lot of human spaceflight these days, because it's just too expensive compared to sending up robots -- but robots are a lot of fun too!

In university, study a broad range of science, math, and engineering; then work for a bit, then pick one field for your higher-level degree. Also study "soft" skills at every level because no matter how brilliant a scientist/engineer/mathematician you are, it doesn't matter unless you can communicate your discoveries and collaborate with others.

15 minutes ago, razark said:

Honestly, this right here is your biggest hurdle to getting a job at NASA.  You would need to become a US citizen to work directly for the agency.  Your best course to working with NASA may be through the ESA.

I had colleagues from various countries working at NASA. There were some restrictions: India and Pakistan set off their nukes, and suddenly all my Indian and Pakistani colleagues needed to be escorted to the bathroom. 

Most people were indeed contractors, myself included. That was a legal fiction: day to day there was zero difference between a contractor and a public servant. We had to be coached to never say we worked "for" NASA, and to never identify a public servant as our boss. The fact we needed to be coached about this underscores what the actual reality was.

[razark]

9 minutes ago, numerobis said:

I had colleagues from various countries working at NASA. There were some restrictions: India and Pakistan set off their nukes, and suddenly all my Indian and Pakistani colleagues needed to be escorted to the bathroom. 

Believe me, I'm aware of what needs to happen to get a foreign national on-site, and Designated Countries restrictions.  I've spent more time dealing with that system (and owner) than I like to think about.

 

9 minutes ago, numerobis said:

Most people were indeed contractors, myself included. That was a legal fiction: day to day there was zero difference between a contractor and a public servant. We had to be coached to never say we worked "for" NASA, and to never identify a public servant as our boss. The fact we needed to be coached about this underscores what the actual reality was.

There's plenty of difference between a civil servant and a contractor.  For instance, civil servants can make policy decisions, contractors can't.  (Not that that stops a civil servant from asking a contractor what their own policy is.)  I can't say I've ever heard of any such coaching, though.  That just seems like common sense.  Besides, when you report to five different civil servants for multiple different projects, how could you identify one as your boss?

[Pecan]

55 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

...networking is how you find jobs...

And that should be the take-home message of this thread.

The big thing is that it's practice and experience in any subject that will make you an expert (eg; the 10,000 hour rule).  You'll only put the time in to practice and gain the experience if you have a genuine interest and can nurture and develop it.  KSP might be starting small but then the best advice for anyone learning anything is to start with small things, succeed, feel the achievement and progress.  Too much too soon will just lead to frustration and dissatisfaction.  Top-grade professionals in any field only get and stay that way because they love what they do, which leads to the second important thing to know ...

People love to talk about what themselves and what they love.  Experts in just about any of the advanced sciences hardly ever get a chance to because no-one understands a word they're talking about (trust me on this) ^^.  If you can show that a) you are equally fascinated by the subject, b) you're at least dedicated enough to have mastered the computer-simulation basics (ie; KSP) so you can understand them and c) you're really, really impressed by them doing it in the real world, then they'll be interested in talking to you too.  People also like to help people who look like they deserve it - make insider friends and they will find ways to get you involved.

Worked for me when I wanted to be a software developer, starting from just highschool knowledge in the late 1970s - which means I had a home computer.  Should have been a hopeless joke but 18 months later I was working in the largest computer centre in Eurpoe and doing a part-time degree funded by the Army.

 

[numerobis]

2 hours ago, razark said:

Believe me, I'm aware of what needs to happen to get a foreign national on-site, and Designated Countries restrictions.  I've spent more time dealing with that system (and owner) than I like to think about.

My condolences!

2 hours ago, razark said:

when you report to five different civil servants for multiple different projects, how could you identify one as your boss?

See, this is why contractors need coaching: it is COMPLETELY VERBOTEN for a contractor to "report to" a civil servant, and if there's a pattern of such misconduct it's grounds for terminating the contract -- as in, the entire *company's* contract with NASA! Or at least that was how the contract was written where I was (Ames). This was just a smokescreen: the reality was that at the entry-level ranks, contractors and public servants sat side by side and the precise status doesn't matter at all day by day.

At higher ranks, sure, it matters. But the OP is 16 -- plenty of time to apply for and get US citizenship if they're driven (and a bit lucky) so they can get a slot when the time comes! In the meantime, citizenship won't be a barrier.

About networking: yes. That's how I got in; someone who'd graduated from my department sent the department secretary a job posting, she shared it with me, and I got an interview with him and his boss. I had good references, and at the interview I demonstrated that I had gone out of the way in the week between the posting and the interview to learn about the obscure thing that the job was about (ISRU -- which ironically is the one thing I've never played with in KSP).

[razark]

3 minutes ago, numerobis said:

See, this is why contractors need coaching: it is COMPLETELY VERBOTEN for a contractor to "report to" a civil servant

I think "report to" may be the wrong choice of words.

Of course, as a contractor, my boss is a company employee.  However, we also have a civil servant manager over our group.  That's who makes policy and determines what work is done.  (Theoretically, anyway. )  We also have to deal with our Directorate people to coordinate efforts within the directorate.  Our group is considered a Center Resource, and anyone that requires our services can request it.  These customers are quite often civil servants, but not always.  They provide us with the specific requirements for the work, final approval for release, and manage policy for their processes.  Each center has a similar group, and at agency level, there's another civil servant that (theoretically) runs things.  Certain projects get handled at this level, if they involve coordinated efforts across the centers.

While we may not "report to" them in a certain sense, we do have a couple of civil servants that manage our functions, three or four major customers, and a handful of others that require attention from time to time that we have to answer to in some form.  So, depending on how you want to define "boss", I've got one, or many.

[m4v]

5 hours ago, numerobis said:

I disagree violently. As per the cartoon, I learned a lot more rocket science from playing KSP than from actually working at NASA. There really isn't that much demand for orbital mechanics at NASA.

Then, without trying to sound condescending, I'm presuming you didn't do much rocket science at NASA since the only thing you can learn about rockets in KSP is the rocket equation.

I once took a curse (that I didn't pass because reasons) about introduction to satellite guidance, and learned a bit about the inertial and non inertial coordinates systems, osculating orbits due to the J2 perturbations, all the lovely matrix equations you have to solve for keep control of everything, ... all short of stuff that you need to know in real life but KSP has none of it, so I fail to see KSP's usefulness in the real space world.

KSP is great for getting you hyped about space and rockets, so I suppose that counts as help, but in the end NASA is going to look for an engineering degree in your resume.

Edited May 3, 2016 by m4v