[1.1.2] KSPCasher: Cash Economy Rebalance [0.2.1] 22 May 2016

[astat]

 

What this mod does is:

• Buy tech nodes for cash
  Nodes in the research tree will now cost funds instead of science. Any science spent is refunded when you leave the R&D building.
• Get cash for science
  Turn science into cash at the click of a button
• Daily budget
  Every day at 4am you receive cash according to your reputation level. Use the "Warp to next morning" button if that node is just a few bucks away.
• Let you configure all the above
  Click the "$" button to change the multipliers for all of the above, values are saved with your save game

But Why?

Career mode for me just seems to be motivated only by science, and most can agree it's a bit of a grind unlocking the tree. Making this easy change using the plugin system allowed me to play the game with a slightly different outlook, and combined with other mods you are able to progress the game using contracts or funds from your production/mining empire. The reputation budget is just another way to reduce grind, go ahead and time accelerate that engine tech upgrade if you need to.
 

[Download from Github]

(Also available on CKAN)

 

Compatible with:

• Strategia
• Kerbal Construction Time
• Real Solar System (24 hour budget cycle)

Recommended Mods for a Cash-Based Career Mode:

• Contract packs, all of them
• Karbonite+ (Find Karborundum for much $$)
• Kerbin-Side + Supplements (for more profitable opportunities on Kerbin)

Notices

This mod includes version checking using MiniAVC. If you opt-in, it will use the internet to check whether there is a new version available. Data is only read from the internet and no personal information is sent. For a more comprehensive version checking experience, please download the KSP-AVC Plugin.

This mod is under MIT license, feel free to look at the source code: https://github.com/a-stat/kspcasher/

Edited May 23, 2016 by astat

[RickKermen]

Great idea, it can simulate a "Government" budget for funding the space program, installing it now

Edit: Just tested it and i like it, my only suggestion is a small GUI window with the values tweakable and if possible to replace the tech tree science value for the money value.

Kind regards.

Edited May 8, 2016 by RickKermen

[Aceoaces]

Nice, I have been using cheats to play this way anyway.  Dealing with science is just a chore.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Here's a question:  Does the conversion system account for the strategy center?  Certain strategies require setups that cost science or reputation.

 

If I may suggest, instead of a kerbin-daily cash out on the science, make the cash out on science user-triggered so they can hoard it for said purposes.  Especially prudent when dealing with any mods that may perform alterations to the strategy system.  Stratega, for example, has setup requirements for strategy types that are massive at high levels.

 

ALSO @astat:  Get your license text up as and source code accessible as per forum ad-on rules.  Most people just lump the source code in with the mod package.

Edited May 9, 2016 by AdmiralTigerclaw

[astat]

18 hours ago, AdmiralTigerclaw said:

Here's a question:  Does the conversion system account for the strategy center?  Certain strategies require setups that cost science or reputation.

 

If I may suggest, instead of a kerbin-daily cash out on the science, make the cash out on science user-triggered so they can hoard it for said purposes.  Especially prudent when dealing with any mods that may perform alterations to the strategy system.  Stratega, for example, has setup requirements for strategy types that are massive at high levels.

 

ALSO @astat:  Get your license text up as and source code accessible as per forum ad-on rules.  Most people just lump the source code in with the mod package.

Thanks for the idea, that does sound better

I will do a new version with a Settings GUI and "Cash out science" button soon as I'm able.

Source code and license added to OP

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

3 hours ago, astat said:

Thanks for the idea, that does sound better

I will do a new version with a Settings GUI and "Cash out science" button soon as I'm able.

Source code and license added to OP

 

No problem.  Also, this thread gave me an idea so I created a thread discussing it.  Since the economy and economy interface seems to be your area of getting into this, you might be interested in pursuing it...

 

[Roninpawn]

I like the idea of this mod, and I'm curious about the possibilities of changing R&D unlocks in different ways to re-balance the game. (Not unlike AdmiralTigerclaw.) What you've got going now is a pure replacement of science for cash, and that sounds great. I'm playing a moderate difficulty career mode I started not long ago and I'm sitting on well over 1M ker-bucks, but I'm chaffing against the available science limitations and the feeling that I'm being forced to play the game differently than I'd like to; rushing off to moons and planets before I've had my fill of fun on and around Kerbin. This cash and carry system solves that very nicely.

But here's what I'm curious about: With the API that exists right now and the experience you have working on this mod, does it look possible (moreso, how difficult would you imagine it) to have certain nodes remain unlockable only with science, or require a combination of funds and science to unlock, while having others operate on a pure-cash system? Say: Unlocking larger/taller variants of fuel tanks merely requires the capital to build bigger, but developing a nuclear engine demands a certain scientific acumen.

On the same lines - and this is far more interesting - could node/tier-entry be restricted based on achievement? For example: You need a vessel landing on Duna in order to unlock the 'X' node or to open up higher tiers of nodes? Better yet, you need to have recovered/transmitted [insert science-type] from the surface of [insert body], as though what you learned from analysis enabled the next technological leap.

I'm not suggesting any changes to this mod. Just curious about the possibilities, since this is the first thing I've personally seen that changes how R&D unlocks. Kerbal Career desperately wants for a thoughtful re-balance of how the game unfolds, and different systems of progression make more sense from mod-pack to mod-pack. I'm curious if the queries available through KSP and/or modulemanager make changes like this possible, or even easily-done.

Thanks for your work, and your time.

[Shadriss]

This mod is on my watch list as a replacement for another mod I have, but as previously suggested, until the next version comes out (as I also use Strategia) it's not something I could effectively make use of. I noted that you said you were going to add a few features - if I may, do you have an estimate for when that may happen? Not an attempt to rush, or anything like that - just curious, as I'm about to start a new career in the game.

[astat]

New version is now up on Github.

• Added GUI window showing next budget
• Moved science bonus to button
• Added settings dialog to change multipliers
• Budgets now occur at 4am (so you can use warp to next morning)

Download it here: https://github.com/a-stat/kspcasher/releases/tag/0.2.0

CKAN should catch up shortly

 

On 5/16/2016 at 4:53 PM, Roninpawn said:

But here's what I'm curious about: With the API that exists right now and the experience you have working on this mod, does it look possible (moreso, how difficult would you imagine it) to have certain nodes remain unlockable only with science, or require a combination of funds and science to unlock, while having others operate on a pure-cash system? Say: Unlocking larger/taller variants of fuel tanks merely requires the capital to build bigger, but developing a nuclear engine demands a certain scientific acumen.

On the same lines - and this is far more interesting - could node/tier-entry be restricted based on achievement? For example: You need a vessel landing on Duna in order to unlock the 'X' node or to open up higher tiers of nodes? Better yet, you need to have recovered/transmitted [insert science-type] from the surface of [insert body], as though what you learned from analysis enabled the next technological leap.

I'm not suggesting any changes to this mod. Just curious about the possibilities, since this is the first thing I've personally seen that changes how R&D unlocks. Kerbal Career desperately wants for a thoughtful re-balance of how the game unfolds, and different systems of progression make more sense from mod-pack to mod-pack. I'm curious if the queries available through KSP and/or modulemanager make changes like this possible, or even easily-done.

Thanks for your work, and your time.

Hi Roninpawn thanks for your reply and yes, pretty much everything you've mentioned is possible. My aim for this mod was to keep it very barebones with cash for science but that doesn't mean another mod could be made that incorporates some of your ideas along with AdmiralTigerClaw's that can be added along with this mod (or incorporates this mod) to extend the R&D economy even more. I've been playing a lot of RSS/RO lately and something a bit more involved wouldn't go astray in that gameplay environment either. I'll ponder it for the time being as I do have a couple small additions I still want to make with this one.

Edited May 19, 2016 by astat

[astat]

On 5/16/2016 at 5:58 AM, Shadriss said:

This mod is on my watch list as a replacement for another mod I have, but as previously suggested, until the next version comes out (as I also use Strategia) it's not something I could effectively make use of. I noted that you said you were going to add a few features - if I may, do you have an estimate for when that may happen? Not an attempt to rush, or anything like that - just curious, as I'm about to start a new career in the game.

Sorry for the wait! I hope I'm not too late for your new career, but also feel free to add the mod after a career start it won't break anything

[Shadriss]

No worries - was just curious, as I said. As often as Jeb crashes and burns, a new game isn't a big deal. And we just can't have a space program without Jeb, can we? I'll check this out, and we'll see how it fares.

[Tiber9]

Wow, this is so similar to what I've been trying to do in my Uncharted Lands career. I have just been doing manual save-file edits to do things like convert all cash rewards into reputation via a 100% strategy, use science funding to get rep from science reports, and then each year edit in the year's funds based on my reputation increase or decrease. (yearly budget because of high KCT settings). If only I had found this a couple weeks ago! :-) nice work.

[Deimos Rast]

@astat

About to give the mod a go. By the way I noticed you included MiniAVC (which I like), but didn't mention it in the OP. I'm not 100%, but I believe you need to at least mention the license of MiniAVC (GNU General Public License v3), but people usually also throw the following in their OP somewhere. I don't think it's actually required; just more of a formality and helps explain what it does for the few who don't know.

Cheers.

p.s.

blizzy toolbar support?

Quote

KSP-AVC Notice

This mod includes version checking using MiniAVC. If you opt-in, it will use the internet to check whether there is a new version available.

Data is only read from the internet and no personal information is sent. For a more comprehensive version checking experience, please download the KSP-AVC Plugin.

 

[astat]

1 hour ago, Deimos Rast said:

@astat

About to give the mod a go. By the way I noticed you included MiniAVC (which I like), but didn't mention it in the OP. I'm not 100%, but I believe you need to at least mention the license of MiniAVC (GNU General Public License v3), but people usually also throw the following in their OP somewhere. I don't think it's actually required; just more of a formality and helps explain what it does for the few who don't know.

Cheers.

p.s.

blizzy toolbar support?

 

Fair call, will update OP with AVC. And yes Blizzy support in next patch, along with some ideas I have to make the budget a little more flexible/realistic than rep * number.

[Shadriss]

On 5/20/2016 at 1:00 AM, astat said:

... to make the budget a little more flexible/realistic than rep * number.

Not sure that it's entirely a bad way to do it. The better a group's reputation, the more likely people are to 'invest' in it, whether that be governmental programs or private industry. It does, at least, have the value of simplicity. If I may ask, what additional avenue are you looking at for this, then?

[astat]

12 hours ago, Shadriss said:

Not sure that it's entirely a bad way to do it. The better a group's reputation, the more likely people are to 'invest' in it, whether that be governmental programs or private industry. It does, at least, have the value of simplicity. If I may ask, what additional avenue are you looking at for this, then?

It's still tied to reputation, but each reputation gain's effect on the budget will slowly decrease over time, so a stagnant space program's budget will fall.

[severedsolo]

59 minutes ago, astat said:

It's still tied to reputation, but each reputation gain's effect on the budget will slowly decrease over time, so a stagnant space program's budget will fall.

I like this idea, I was considering combining it with Punish The Lazy, but I noticed that mod hasn't been updated in a very long time and doubt it still works in 1.1. So combining it in this mod would be great. This looks interesting! I'm going to try it out, when I've finished my Duna expedition.

[Deimos Rast]

I'm enjoying this mod,  although I had to crank some multipliers up a tad; many thanks!

[astat]

On 5/23/2016 at 11:06 PM, Deimos Rast said:

I'm enjoying this mod,  although I had to crank some multipliers up a tad; many thanks!

What multipliers are working for you? and what other mods are you running? 

[Deimos Rast]

11 hours ago, astat said:

What multipliers are working for you? and what other mods are you running? 

Well the big mod that I'm running this with is Kerbal Construction Time, so infrastructure eats into my budget a fair amount, as I also sell science there too. I haven't settled on the science/tech multipliers yet (I'm not sure how the tech multiplier works exactly - it affects the cost to purchase tech, yeah?), but the budget multiplier is 100, which is probably high. Before I was getting 3,000 a day, now I'm at 30,000. I'm a bit of atypical case though, as I may have..."unlocked" a few things earlier than usual (e.g. TechRequired = start ) so my budgetary issues can range all over the place on any given rocket. When I'm done with infrastructure, I might ramp the budget down some, as my rep grows (it's early game still too).

Also, I have KRnD which means I can use Science Points to upgrade parts, so that's another sink for science. Neither of these two mods are conflicts mind you, as I now have much more flexibility in my game. There are immediate trade offs to science now, when there wasn't really before. I'd recommend it if people want to still have a RnD aspect to the science without the grind. Link here if you're curious.

Slight bug report for you: the multiplier for the budget doesn't seem to persist through saves, or at least closing and exiting the game. At least, it's back down to 3,000 everytime I start up KSP again.

Also, a feature request, which might be more trouble than it's worth to be honest (or at least maybe mention this somewhere): show how much a tech tree node costs to unlock before you click it? I know it shows how much it cost afterward, but by then they've already cashed my check (which might have been most of my snack fund!). I think it's just the multiplier times the tech cost or so (90 nodes were 900,000 in my game).

Cheers.

---edit---

Also: RemoteTech, so early game satelite blitz is a bit expensive. I could be more efficient about a lot of it...but it's of course easier to lean on the multipliers a little.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Deimos Rast

[MaximilianPs]

I guess the better way to improve money without cheating could be to improve the administrative building, "administrators" could search for sponsors to help the agency to avoid the bankrupt or maybe the sponsor could cover part or a total of the current vessel cost !

Also, could be interesting to have a Bank system so you can ask for a credit, to lunch a rocket and, on this way recover some money that in future will be used to refound the bank.

[severedsolo]

On 25/05/2016 at 1:55 AM, Deimos Rast said:

Also, a feature request, which might be more trouble than it's worth to be honest (or at least maybe mention this somewhere): show how much a tech tree node costs to unlock before you click it? I know it shows how much it cost afterward, but by then they've already cashed my check (which might have been most of my snack fund!). I think it's just the multiplier times the tech cost or so (90 nodes were 900,000 in my game).

Second this request. I note that it does tell you how much it costs if you can't afford it, but would be nice to see before hand.

Can I just say though, I am having great fun with this. Actually having to think about my budget for once is delightful.

Edited May 30, 2016 by severedsolo

[astat]

On 5/25/2016 at 10:55 AM, Deimos Rast said:

Also, a feature request, which might be more trouble than it's worth to be honest (or at least maybe mention this somewhere): show how much a tech tree node costs to unlock before you click it? I know it shows how much it cost afterward, but by then they've already cashed my check (which might have been most of my snack fund!). I think it's just the multiplier times the tech cost or so (90 nodes were 900,000 in my game).

Unfortunately I was unable to alter the UI or even trick it into saying the monetary value with "sci" next to it, tried both

If Squad is reading this, some UI hooks like this would be great

[Deimos Rast]

15 minutes ago, astat said:

Unfortunately I was unable to alter the UI or even trick it into saying the monetary value with "sci" next to it, tried both

If Squad is reading this, some UI hooks like this would be great

Bummer. Although a maybe hacky solution would be to point something at TechTree.cfg and put the costs in the description/title/tooltip? I was going to say a MM patch, but that wouldn't update dynamically (or is this something that even needs to be done dynamically?). You would of course need to make sure it stays CTT compliant/compatible.

Only thing I can think of.

--edit--

@astat you saw my bugreport about the multipliers not being persistent, correct? If you'd like I can raise an issue on github.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Deimos Rast

[severedsolo]

So, not 100% sure if this is an issue with Casher or KCT, but I'm going to guess that it's an issue with Casher.

I have tech unlock times turned on in KCT, and I requested a node to be unlocked. Now, due to the way this works, I don't actually see the "unlock" in R&D til the timer finishes (and it takes a long time).

Anyway, long story short, I accidentally tried to unlock a node that was already being unlocked in KCT. KCT informed me "upgrade already in progress" - but Casher still took my money.

Then I clicked a node that hadn't been unlocked, Casher let me unlock that for "free" (but I'd already paid by clicking the one that I was already unlocking) and then something (probably casher) gave me the science cost back (even though I'd converted all science to cash). So I essentially got the node for free (when I cashed in the refunded science).

I've got a log if you need it, but there is nothing useful there at all.