Six Six Science - Duna Trek Mission Report with craftfiles

[Frank_G]

6 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

With the new commnet system, are you going to be deploying some relay satellites, or will you control your autonomous vehicles from the mothership with the crew control feature?

 

Also, since you're going to the Jool system, will you deploy an atmospheric entry probe into Jool's atmosphere? I don't see many people do that sort of thing, but I feel like it's quite a good way of getting science data from the lower atmosphere of gas planets.

The first thing i did in KSP 1.2 was establishing a large scale ComNet around Kerbin with one extra satellite in very high orbit for interplanetary communications. I plan to build a network and a relay station in high Jool orbit, for guaranteed good communications. Maybe i will launch these prior to the main mission, depending on the launch window and the way, the JTV turns out. If i can fit the stuff inside the JTV, i will most likely do it in one mission.

Dropping a probe into Jools atmosphere is a thing i already did in earlier versions of KSP. As it was fun and there are new options and experiments available, i will make this part of the mission for sure.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Frank_G

[Frank_G]

This is a payload rack and standardized containers, that might carry the vehicles and equipment for a large scale Laythe ground operation. The containers can house several vehicles, a habitat and other useful things to have on the surface of Laythe.

The next task will be, developing an SSTO spaceplane, that is capable of bringing these containers, one at a time, down to the surface of Laythe and then get back up to the main vessel for refueling and the next transport task. The successful development of such a vessel is key to this approach. However, the SSTO has to be small enough, to be transported along with the main mission craft. This is a tough one... I already have some ideas how to accomplish this, but who knows if it will work out. Keep your fingers crossed.

[Heckspress]

Maybe just make a tug that can push the containers onto a suborbital trajectory, prime chutes, then return to the mothership? Also how do you get rid of the containers once they're spent?

[Frank_G]

I need an SSTO for sure. I want my crew back and i wont waste space with an additional lander / return vehicle, that can master an orbital ascent. The containers will be fitted with charges (decouplers) to blow off parts of the walls. This here is only a determination of how much space i need and how big equipment can be.

[Heckspress]

Ah, k.

[Frank_G]

Also, while Laythe is easy to navigate, it is quite hard to drop things close together by chute (i dont use any orbital trajectory mods). Missing the landing spot will most likely result in the container landing in the ocean... which could be considered fatal, as it becomes unreachable. I need a transport unit, that can drop off equipment exactly where i need it.

[Frank_G]

Errrr... totally unexpected... but it flies...

[septemberWaves]

I'm not entirely sure what that is, but I love the design of it.

[Frank_G]

5 hours ago, eloquentJane said:

I'm not entirely sure what that is, but I love the design of it.

I am trying to design an SSTO spaceplane for bringing the containers shown above and the mission crew down to the surface of Laythe (and the crew back up to orbit). This was the first idea and yes, it holds one of the containers... It gets off the ground with ease, but it currently tends to decorate large portions of the sky with part confetti and funny smoke trails, once it gets transsonic.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Frank_G

[septemberWaves]

8 hours ago, Frank_G said:

It gets off the ground with ease, but it currently tends to decorate large portions of the sky with part confetti and funny smoke trails, once it gets transsonic.

That issue seems rather common with certain payloads. I've found that often, oddly-shaped payloads that are stored in a cargo bay instead of a fairing will tend to produce aerodynamic visual effects. I am still unsure about whether or not they are actually affected by drag in this case.

[Frank_G]

30 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

That issue seems rather common with certain payloads. I've found that often, oddly-shaped payloads that are stored in a cargo bay instead of a fairing will tend to produce aerodynamic visual effects. I am still unsure about whether or not they are actually affected by drag in this case.

There is no cargo bay, the container sits open under the belly. Aerodynamic effects are okay (maybe the container needs lifting surfaces as floor) - the critical thing this craft currently lacks, is stability in itself. It needs some space tape and a bit more lifting surfaces behind its center of mass. Maybe it will even have to be fitted with detachable wings, that will require orbital assembly, once being at the destination.

edit - the aerodynamics are good. It doesnt generate much drag, according to the forces display, as the container is shielded by the front of the plane. The whole plane bends at high speeds, which leads to shaking parts and finally to dragging the SSTO off course, which is just fatal at hypersonic speeds.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Frank_G

[Frank_G]

Continued to experiment with form, function, stability and aerodynamics. It now is a little more stable, but still far from perfect, but it now has a built in crew capacity of four, a more defined form and a little better aerodynamic profile. However, i see no real chance of going without wings, so the next step will be, adding some detachable wings...

There is no "real" part clipping going on here. I only clip structural parts and i used a jet fuselage, to cover those ugly rocket tanks (can be seen in the right view, where the tank border slightly clips the fuselage - i used a little offset to prevent z-fighting flicker).

Edited November 29, 2016 by Frank_G

[Frank_G]

I got stuck with the SSTO design during the last days, so i decided to move on to another topic and give me some time to think and collect fresh ideas for the SSTO... Today, i built the first vehicle for the Laythe exploration, a mini-submarine with a decent set of science equipment. Here are the first impressions and a nice mood shot:

[SHiftER2O]

16 hours ago, Frank_G said:

I got stuck with the SSTO design during the last days, so i decided to move on to another topic and give me some time to think and collect fresh ideas for the SSTO... Today, i built the first vehicle for the Laythe exploration, a mini-submarine with a decent set of science equipment. Here are the first impressions and a nice mood shot:

First impression wise, I would comment that it looks a bit mechanical, I don't know if that's the style you intend to go with but, in my opinion, it contrasts with your "clean and modern" designs? Maybe it has something to do with the palette of that Mk1 Capsule, but oh well, that's just an aesthetics problem. Function-wise, I think it would do well from what you're showing.

I could tip you that you could insert the light in the docking port jr and it would exactly fit the hole! But its a choice design, as from what I'm seeing, you'd prefer the light look down the ship rather than straight in front of it.

Here's a design I made that I had in mind to package with your clean modern style, granted that's just my take on it, but you know, feedback can be appreciated, right?  

[Frank_G]

3 minutes ago, SHiftER2O said:

First impression wise, I would comment that it looks a bit mechanical, I don't know if that's the style you intend to go with but, in my opinion, it contrasts with your "clean and modern" designs? Maybe it has something to do with the palette of that Mk1 Capsule, but oh well, that's just an aesthetics problem. Function-wise, I think it would do well from what you're showing.

I could tip you that you could insert the light in the docking port jr and it would exactly fit the hole! But its a choice design, as from what I'm seeing, you'd prefer the light look down the ship rather than straight in front of it.

Here's a design I made that I had in mind to package with your clean modern style, granted that's just my take on it, but you know, feedback can be appreciated, right?  

 

Very nice sub. I like, that it carries two kerbals and is more compact. Those ore tanks, are they full to provide downforce or are they empty and used to keep the Sub above surface, once surfaced?

My first design started with the Mk. I cabin as well, but it got too long. There is still a lot of optimization to be done in my design. Thanks for the tip with the light, but i never obstruct docking ports. The front light is angled towards the ground by purpose. If i go level and move ahead, i want to see, what is on the ground in front of me.

[SHiftER2O]

12 minutes ago, Frank_G said:

Very nice sub. I like, that it carries two kerbals and is more compact. Those ore tanks, are they full to provide downforce or are they empty and used to keep the Sub above surface, once surfaced?

My first design started with the Mk. I cabin as well, but it got too long. There is still a lot of optimization to be done in my design. Thanks for the tip with the light, but i never obstruct docking ports. The front light is angled towards the ground by purpose. If i go level and move ahead, i want to see, what is on the ground in front of me.

Well, the ore tanks are full to provide downforce yes, because I assume that it would take weight to keep pressurized air in a can submerged, and that the mk1 crew cabin does seem like it really want to stay in the surface! So if we were to practically use a sub with that kind of system, we would need to spend resources on it, which adds fault to the design. I'd imagine using this in career mode would be more troublesome, if one were to be conservative of funds

Ah, I see I see. If I were to give some tips, I would say that the wing parts aren't really necessary as a sub as tiny as that Mk1 capsule would be easily controlled by that medium-sized SAS module, Here's another one I built based on the Mk1 capsule (ignore the KLAW, that's just for show, and YES it does make the craft more floaty), where it doesn't require the ore tanks to submerge, but rather determination. By that I mean, you fire the engines and point downwards in order to submerge it, and if you cut the power it would freely float back to the surface. The flaws to this design however, is that as fuel gets consumed, the sub would inevitably be so light that it would just float back to the surface even with force from the jets, so there's that to account. I'm not so sure if the wing parts make the craft more floaty? Some testing would need to be done there...

[TopHeavy11]

On 11/29/2016 at 3:23 PM, Frank_G said:

Continued to experiment with form, function, stability and aerodynamics. It now is a little more stable, but still far from perfect, but it now has a built in crew capacity of four, a more defined form and a little better aerodynamic profile. However, i see no real chance of going without wings, so the next step will be, adding some detachable wings...

There is no "real" part clipping going on here. I only clip structural parts and i used a jet fuselage, to cover those ugly rocket tanks (can be seen in the right view, where the tank border slightly clips the fuselage - i used a little offset to prevent z-fighting flicker).

*coughcoughInterstellarcoughlandercoughcough*

[Frank_G]

16 hours ago, TopHeavy11 said:

*coughcoughInterstellarcoughlandercoughcough*

Thanks :D. Sadly it needs wings... The center of lift is too far to the front and taking away the frontal control surfaces makes it stay on the ground... The whole design still needs some serious work. 14 different designs have been tested so far. The last one however came close to orbit. Very close, but i will allow myself some time to rethink and get some fresh ideas.

And then suddenly, a new idea manifests, that allows to keep the style while delivering more lift at the back end - without wings... I have time on sunday to build and test  

[chadgaskerman]

On 29/11/2016 at 9:23 PM, Frank_G said:

 

Continued to experiment with form, function, stability and aerodynamics. It now is a little more stable, but still far from perfect, but it now has a built in crew capacity of four, a more defined form and a little better aerodynamic profile. However, i see no real chance of going without wings, so the next step will be, adding some detachable wings...

 

Can i have one?

please

pretty please

~Chad

[Frank_G]

19 minutes ago, chadgaskerman said:

Can i have one?

please

pretty please

~Chad

Yes, the craft will be available for download when it is finished. And afterwards there might be another iteration, that will make it into the upcoming Jool-5 mission profile.

[Frank_G]

Well... not polished, not optimized, but... 100 km Kerbin orbit confirmed - what a tiny change in form can achieve... YES!!!! Happy now and off to meet some friends

[Frank_G]

Two optimization builds later... Form more polished, flight profile easier, fuel efficiency increased... reached 110 km circular orbit with some fuel left for orbital acrobatics. Now it needs a bit of RCS and solar arrays and the SSTO is good to go. Next step will be designing the payload containers and test, if the SSTO can deliver them from orbit to surface and get back up into orbit without the payload.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Frank_G

[SHiftER2O]

1 hour ago, Frank_G said:

Two optimization builds later... Form more polished, flight profile easier, fuel efficiency increased... reached 110 km circular orbit with some fuel left for orbital acrobatics. Now it needs a bit of RCS and solar arrays and the SSTO is good to go. Next step will be designing the payload containers and test, if the SSTO can deliver them from orbit to surface and get back up into orbit without the payload.

What mission would this be for? Seems like something out of Interstellar, which Laythe could closely relate to...

[Frank_G]

2 minutes ago, SHiftER2O said:

What mission would this be for? Seems like something out of Interstellar, which Laythe could closely relate to...

Its going to be a Jool-5 Tour, with an extended Laythe surface exploration. The SSTO is designed to bring equipment down to the surface. It will deliver standardized containers, that are filled with equipment, vehicles and other stuff and then return to orbit empty - after delivering all the equipment it will be fitted with a crew compartment and act as a shuttle between orbit and ground base.

[Karamon]

Why not make small refueling station on Laythe , bring it first and refuel on the landing site . No need to carry extra fuel in space