[1.2.x] [Test Release] BioMass Continued (Development Thread)

[BetaguyGZT]

I'm reworking the above list. Grey's the only one that we want generating anything.

[BetaguyGZT]

Hmmm ... I'm at a slight impasse here.

- On the one hand, we enjoy KSP because we want realistic Spaceflight and everything that goes with it. We're "armchair nerds". Attention to detail is a good thing in a game like this.

- On the other hand, it's still a simulation. We don't need too much of the "niggling" detail, as it'd spoil the overall enjoyment of said simulation.

So ... Community Vote time! All in favor of "Realism Mode", where we have to break down components into molecular resources first, and then recombine into what we need?

[Dux Aquila]

well, with the level of realism established by this mod for my it is enough, but if you could have a conversion for RealFuels ..., it would be great 

[BetaguyGZT]

On 6/4/2016 at 11:14 AM, Dux Aquila said:

well, with the level of realism established by this mod for my it is enough, but if you could have a conversion for RealFuels ..., it would be great 

That'll come later. Consider it on the list for something we'll add down the road.

Another Friday, another status update:

--------------------------------------------------------------------

- Still working on issues with the Models. We've made a bit of headway, but we've got some expert help now. Might be an easy fix, might not be -- and if it isn't, they'll take a look directly and see what's going on.
- BioMass Habitation Hub (formerly the Station Hub #1, "Blue Dome") is about to get its' ETF-1 Flight with its' new, reworked Model and new on-board systems. Remember the upgrade that the Original Enterprise from Star Trek got during that first refit in terms of a Systems Overhaul? That's the level of Refit that the Habitation Hub has received.  
- Compressors are still WIP.
- More animations have been fixed ... -ish.

You'll soon have a testing build to play with, folks. If this one pans out, it could be as soon as this coming week.

[rasta013]

On 6/4/2016 at 0:02 AM, BetaguyGZT said:

We're converting BioMass to Kethane Gas

I'm not sure I understand how Kethane suddenly entered the equation?

On 6/4/2016 at 9:10 AM, BetaguyGZT said:

All in favor of "Realism Mode"

I'll take it either way I can get it to be perfectly honest.  I wouldn't mind a few less bits of realism included to keep playability fun and not feeling like a chore though.

[BetaguyGZT]

17 minutes ago, rasta013 said:

I'm not sure I understand how Kethane suddenly entered the equation?

I'll take it either way I can get it to be perfectly honest.  I wouldn't mind a few less bits of realism included to keep playability fun and not feeling like a chore though.

Kethane is Methane. If we're actually using Methane (like RealFuels does), I'll be happy to fix that up. No biggie. There've been a couple of requests to have a MM Config for RealFuels compatibility.  No reason not to have one in a "Realism Mod".

And BioMass is a "Realism Mod", but yeah I see your point. The Compressors idea I've been working on adds a level of extreme complexity that the more "hardcore realism fans" will drool over; but as I said it will take the fun out of what's supposed to be a relaxing simulation game.

[Stone Blue]

On 6/10/2016 at 10:47 PM, BetaguyGZT said:

You'll soon have a testing build to play with, folks. If this one pans out, it could be as soon as this coming week.

Man...What are you guys DOING!?.... Taking FOREVER to get this mod back up... Its not like this is rocket-science... Or astro-micro-biology, or anything... ;P

And dont you ever read your PMs, @BetaguyGZT?... lol

Edited June 14, 2016 by Stone Blue

[BetaguyGZT]

Yes ... just RL stuff going on, I'm sorry bud.  I wanted to have the merge done *today*.

[Stone Blue]

5 minutes ago, BetaguyGZT said:

Yes ... just RL stuff going on, I'm sorry bud.  I wanted to have the merge done *today*.

Ha!... I know THAT feeling... I'm just busting ****s...Yours AND mine... my whole post was just dripping sarcasm...

Edited June 14, 2016 by Stone Blue

[BetaguyGZT]

Another status update. Gotten a lot done tonight.  This one will put BioMass at a solid 85% toward a test release. Here's where things stand:

- The "big merge" is nearly done. (That'll make @Stone Blue, @CobaltWolf and @akron happy!) The upload will take place later this morning once I've verified the following issue has been resolved ...

- Testing of parts for balance has revealed some unexpected weirdness in the resource conversion math, but I think I've rectified it now. I'll know when I finish reworking the numbers (yet again!) and testing them again shortly; but I'm confident that I've figured it out now. TAC-LS is not doing math, for the record, so we actually have to enter the values we want efficiency rates to be. Completely static, it is (said Yoda).

In other updates ...

- Storage Tanks are now IFS-Switchable. Please make a post if there are any other items they should be switchable to. It's easily addable. Oh, and these tanks are KIS-draggable!  

- Station Hub #1 (the now-renamed "Service Hub") is now online and ready for Shakedown. It boasts Recycling Technologies, 7,500 units of Storage Capacity, Waste, Fuel & MonoPropellant Storage enough to keep an attached Station in orbit until Kerbin's parent Star becomes a Red Giant, and enough ElectricCharge capacity to fire Ion Cannons at Star Destroyers. (How many Ion Cannons can it power? ALL OF THEM. ) I'll warn you ... it's gonna be a pain getting it uphill and docked to an existing Station. I strongly recommend that a Station be built around these. Maneuvering them is not going to be a task for an Autopilot or the inexperienced ... or the impatient.

- The addition of B9PartSwitch has been deferred for now. This will give us a solid foundation to build on, and let us get BioMass re-released more quickly. There's a laundry list of things that @Stone Blue and I wanna do for the next few releases. Believe me when I say that BioMass is going to be in great company, and will be getting regular upgrades and updates.  And it'll be one Project of several that we'll be working on together.

[BetaguyGZT]

Okay, new status update. We're gettin' close, folks.  Got a few winks in, found myself in a nice, quiet household so I was able to get some work done. We likes the quiet time ...

----------------------------------
Changelog (this session):
----------------------------------
- Figured out what I wanna do with the Compressors. They've been updated finally. Just needed to simmer a while.  
- The Cryogenic Air Recombiner and Separator (C.A.R.S.) -- and yes, it's renamed now -- is the "reward item" for the Compressor Parts. And yes, boys and girls, we're on a sort of reward system. Like the other "Reward Parts", there's a good incentive for the hassle of toting it uphill.
- Tags have finally been added to all parts. No more digging through the bin.
- Sadly, the experiment with getting the native Resource Converter API working the way I wanted it to didn't pan out. I was truly vexed at the failure, but I'll keep trying. I know there's a way to do it the way I'm after ...
- The issues with Model Animations continue to be addressed, slowly but surely. The particular issues with those that use Emissives (Lights, Bubbles) require more time, but functionally the parts are good-to-go.

So overall, in terms of where things stand from being ready for public consumption? I'd say we're just about 95%.  Couple of things left to sort out. Possibly three more internal builds to make sure there aren't any showstoppers, and for those of us who are working on BioMass internally, behind-the-scenes, to get all of our Mk.1 Capsules in a row. I've been working pretty quickly this week, and I wanna make sure we're all up to speed and that changes are all synched up, merged & tested. The Public Testing phase will be for all of you fine folks to suggest things like:

- Balance changes
- Whether the models need to be changed out completely or just reworked
- If yours truly needs to be strapped to a Booster without a helmet and test fired towards the Mun  

We'll find out soon enough!

[RomanCat]

Any good news?

[BetaguyGZT]

2 hours ago, RomanCat said:

Any good news?

Always. It's Finals Week for me, then I've got a week off ...  

[Deimos Rast]

I figured this is the better spot to continue the conversation about the TACLS converters vs Stock converters, since it's about Biomass, not Snacks.

What are the advantages of using the TAC converters? They seem to function the same as stock ones. I was able to convert a TAC air filter to stock (the only thing I didn't get working is a built-in multiplier, but I should think you can do that with patches) and it seemed to work fine. I assumed it was maybe due to background processing, but I really have no idea.

I do like the idea of allowing Biomass to be used with multiple different lifesupport mods (not simultaneously mind you).

[BetaguyGZT]

The MODULE{} code is more controllable, shorter and cleaner, in my opinion. You can place your input and output resources inline, and the TAC-LS plugin will deal with it from there.

Here's a snippet of new code from Yellow Greenhouse:

MODULE
{
	name = TacGenericConverter
	converterName = Food Production
	conversionRate = 0.25 // This is just the counter, per second.
	inputResources = ElectricCharge, 1.0, Light, 1.0, CarbonDioxide, 0.0625, BioMass, 0.0625, Nutrients, 0.0625, Water, 0.0625
	outputResources = Food, 0.0625, false, Oxygen, 0.0625, true, WasteWater, 0.0625, false, Waste, 0.0625, false // 6.25%
}

How things break down on the output side is:

Resource Name | Rate | Dump Excess (bool) 

You can add whatever you want to input and output side, just like any other Converter. I like it because I can easily see what's going in and out, and I don't need to scroll down my editor to make adjustments.

Having said that, I'm still looking to get BioMass onto the Stock Converters -- main reason being I want to "future-proof" BioMass, and that means not relying on other plugins if possible. Like using IFS; there's no reason we can't use the built-in FS Modules and get most of the same functionality.  

KIS, though, isn't something that is in the Stock API ... so yeah. That'll need to be a MM patch.

My idea with Snacks is that it'll be a separately-maintained mod.

[EDIT] Oh, another thing I dislike about TAC-LS is that it doesn't cooperate with ModuleAnimateGeneric and other nested Modules. Or at least I haven't been able to get it to cooperate.

Edited June 24, 2016 by BetaguyGZT

[Deimos Rast]

40 minutes ago, BetaguyGZT said:

The MODULE{} code is more controllable, shorter and cleaner, in my opinion. You can place your input and output resources inline, and the TAC-LS plugin will deal with it from there.

Here's a snippet of new code from Yellow Greenhouse:

MODULE
{
	name = TacGenericConverter
	converterName = Food Production
	conversionRate = 0.25 // This is just the counter, per second.
	inputResources = ElectricCharge, 1.0, Light, 1.0, CarbonDioxide, 0.0625, BioMass, 0.0625, Nutrients, 0.0625, Water, 0.0625
	outputResources = Food, 0.0625, false, Oxygen, 0.0625, true, WasteWater, 0.0625, false, Waste, 0.0625, false // 6.25%
}

How things break down on the output side is:

Resource Name | Rate | Dump Excess (bool) 

You can add whatever you want to input and output side, just like any other Converter. I like it because I can easily see what's going in and out, and I don't need to scroll down my editor to make adjustments.

Having said that, I'm still looking to get BioMass onto the Stock Converters -- main reason being I want to "future-proof" BioMass, and that means not relying on other plugins if possible. Like using IFS; there's no reason we can't use the built-in FS Modules and get most of the same functionality.  

KIS, though, isn't something that is in the Stock API ... so yeah. That'll need to be a MM patch.

My idea with Snacks is that it'll be a separately-maintained mod.

[EDIT] Oh, another thing I dislike about TAC-LS is that it doesn't cooperate with ModuleAnimateGeneric and other nested Modules. Or at least I haven't been able to get it to cooperate.

I can't think of a TACLS part that has an animation off the top of my head. Is there one, or are we strictly in the realm of Biomass now? (Actually, come to think of it, I might know of one...)

I was going to suggest looking at Universal Storage, but it turns out it uses a custom animation module and stock converters, so really not helpful.

I doubt it would work, but...I take it you mean more than something like "ModuleAnimationGroup" (typically found on converters/ISRU/scanners for animating ongoing/continual animations)?

What all are you trying to do, just a simple animation?

[BetaguyGZT]

Fire up the lights, and it starts converting ElectricCharge into the Light resource. That's the desired behavior.

I tried it as a nested Module, and it wouldn't work. Tried it both ways; first with the TacGenericConverter module first then the ModuleAnimateGeneric second (as a nested) and then the reverse -- no happy in either case. Either the converter would appear in the options and generate (but no animation for the light), or the light would come on and no resource would be generated.

Strange stuff.

[Stone Blue]

Aaaannndddd.... The last few posts are all gobble-dee-gook to me... So I'm glad @BetaguyGZT is Lead on BioMASS... lol

[BetaguyGZT]

 Not as technical as ya might think, @Stone Blue.

[Deimos Rast]

Have you taken a peak at the Soylent Green mod by @DBowman? It uses stock Solar panels to harvest the "Photons" resource to convert into Algae using a TACLS Converter. Solar panels have an animation name...if you follow me...I'm poking down this avenue at the moment. He might be worth talking to. He seems to have "solved" your issue, but run into another one (see second quote below) and scrapped the Photons all-together as a result.

I've seen them used for some unusual stuff, and it does seem to combine resource input with animation.

Alternatively, you could do it somewhat backward if you will, using "ModuleAnimationGroup" so that the Lights turn on when you start the converter (as opposed to the other way around, the lights turning on the converter). I doubt the player would notice, especially if you fudge the names (if it's even necessary).

Those are the only two things I can think of (but that's doesn't really mean much).

 

		inputResources = ElectricCharge, 0.07123842592593, Photons, 0.007123842592593, SterileOrganicSlurry, 0.00001578703704, CarbonDioxide, 0.001480128899,SoylentStarter,  0.00000001692708333

 

 

Quote

I'd originally intended to have the arrays produce 'photons' for the Algae, however KSPs seemed to bork it under high warp and in any case does not model solar arrays for un-focused craft. Until I resolve this somehow, I have eliminated the photon dependency - just pretend it's there.

 

[BetaguyGZT]

Yes I have, but I'd never taken a look at its' guts. Might be an interesting one to examine more closely. It won't be this weekend, I'm up to my eyeballs in Final Exams and classwork that I gotta have done by Sunday.

[Stone Blue]

15 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

Have you taken a peak at the Soylent Green mod by @DBowman? It uses stock Solar panels to harvest the "Photons" resource to convert into Algae using a TACLS Converter.

Yes, I mentioned Soylent to Beta, but we hadnt discussed yet if it was anything we wanted to pursue, as of yet...
I also have a couple ideas for those panels, or at least something similar, for use with the Greenhouse...

[Deimos Rast]

51 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

Yes, I mentioned Soylent to Beta, but we hadnt discussed yet if it was anything we wanted to pursue, as of yet...
I also have a couple ideas for those panels, or at least something similar, for use with the Greenhouse...

Well the panels are just gutted stock solar panels with a new skin; the only really relevant part was the photons.

Alternatively, you could try an always active generator with requires all inputs / resource threshold that kicks in when the first photon enters the system from the solar panel or where ever, and ends when the panel is stored.

Good luck on finals.

[Deimos Rast]

I think I might have solved your problem or at least taken a bite out of it. However, it's not working 100% for me. The solar panels would probably work if you wanted Natural Lighting, but what about grow lamps? Well, there is ModuleLight. ModuleLight has an animationName field (which you want), but it also has the option to useResources. Rooting around a bit, I figured out how to define which resource the light uses, and...here's the fun part...I set the resourceAmount to a negative value, meaning it outputs the resource instead. It works, and with the below module, I successfully got the MK1 Illuminator to beam out Ore.

However! It shuts off immediately after you hit "Turn On". It pops out 0.1 Ore per click, then turns off. I suspect it's because it really doesn't like the negative. I've had issues in the past where lights won't work at all if they don't consume some resource, and that might be at play here. I have a few ideas to get around it (multiple inputs/outputs streams, trying alternatively the Converter or Generator models), and I'll poke at it a bit more for the sake of science.

I figure with your plugin wizardry though, you might be able to sustain that little bit of momentum, as it were, and keep the light pumping out the 0.1 Ore/Photons/Gummy Bears/etc. And at the Photon level, you probably don't need more than 0.1 (or you could scale it some how).

Hope that helps somewhat.

 

 

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleLight
	animationName = LightAnimation
	lightName = spotlight
	useAnimationDim = true
	lightBrightenSpeed = 2.5
	lightDimSpeed = 2.5
	useResources = true
	resourceName = Ore
	resourceAmount = -5.0
	resourceFlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
}

 

[Stone Blue]

Hmmm... interesting... Hopefully Beta will find that useful...

Thanx, @Deimos Rast