Munar Rescue...How do I do it. More specifically, how should I save the Kerbal and prevent that mistake from happening again? - Mission Update: Rescue Attempt Failed, Plz Help

[Guest]

Basically, I'll put it in Lamen's terms. I didn't kill my relative velocity and as I was doing my retrograde suicide burn...lets just say I forgot to thrust and kill said veolcity resulting in Leatrid Kerman (I think thats what she's called) being stuck on the Mun, with a Mk1 Lander Can with SAS. I launched, did a successful transfer burn...quick saving along the way of course. Forgot about relative velocity and basically landing stage went boom. Pics will be included of where I landed (front and backshot only I'm afraid)

http://steamcommunity.com/id/cambookpro/screenshots/

There are the screenshots for the Landing (ignore the North West Airfield Gmod Screenshot)

Hope you can fix my problem KSP Community

-awfulcraftdesigns signing out!

Mission Update:

I sent the exact same craft, succesful transfer burn again...this time I kept an eye on my Relative Velocity and landed in roughly the same area as my first stranded Lander Can but I forgot to put a probe on it resulting in the crew hatch not being empty and basically now I've got two kerbals stuck on the Mun  and now I need to work out a way to rescue them both with enough fuel for the return journey.  Help plz!

Mission Update 2:

So I reloaded so that only Leatrid would be on the Mun this time, resulting in me now needing a spacecraft worthy to carry a Mk_2 Lander Can. I've updated my Screenshot Library to show you my Landing Stage and Transfer Stage...the resulting effect being I can't find a suitable ascent stage. So help would be nice...I'll provide images so one second...

This is the zoomed out shot of the rescue ship so far...if it helps anyone I've also provided an engineer report...I'm running no mods resulting in this being all stock.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Guest
Mission Update

[bewing]

Your question is still a little too broad, I'm afraid. You rescue the Kerbal by launching another ship that has an open seat, landing it near the Kerbal, and then flying back to LKO (at least).

You make sure it doesn't happen again by landing a little slower and not trying to be so perfect with your suicide burn.

Your Kerbal ended up in a really nice flat spot, though. So that helps -- if you have good enough flying skills to hit it again. And she can collect some science in the area while she waits. She's got snacks and Jetpack fuel refills in the lander can, so she can wait a good long time. You don't have to rush it.

Either that, or you say you quicksaved on the way? Is it too late to revert? Do you want to load a quicksave and try the landing again?

Edited June 1, 2016 by bewing

[Guest]

1 minute ago, bewing said:

Your question is still a little too broad, I'm afraid. You rescue the Kerbal by launching another ship that has an open seat, landing it near the Kerbal, and then flying back to LKO (at least).

You make sure it doesn't happen again by landing a little slower and not trying to be so perfect with your suicide burn.

Your Kerbal ended up in a really nice flat spot, though. So that helps -- if you have good enough flying skills to hit it again. And she can collect some science in the area while she waits. She's got snacks and Jetpack fuel refills in the lander can, so she can wait a good long time. You don't have to rush it.

Slight problem, this is in Sandbox if I forgot the mention that xD but thanks for the compliment...To be fair the lifter I built shot out of Kerbin's orbit relativly well. The transfer stage had enough Delta-V to get me in a Munar Orbit but I should've definitly paid more attention to the Relative Velocity...wasn't trying to be perfect with my sucide burn just a lucky landing I suppose. 

To be fair, I have no idea how much Delta-V would be needed to return to LKO. I'm not gonna rush it but thanks for the solution? Want the .craft file to test my build out yourself?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, bewing said:

Your question is still a little too broad, I'm afraid. You rescue the Kerbal by launching another ship that has an open seat, landing it near the Kerbal, and then flying back to LKO (at least).

You make sure it doesn't happen again by landing a little slower and not trying to be so perfect with your suicide burn.

Your Kerbal ended up in a really nice flat spot, though. So that helps -- if you have good enough flying skills to hit it again. And she can collect some science in the area while she waits. She's got snacks and Jetpack fuel refills in the lander can, so she can wait a good long time. You don't have to rush it.

Either that, or you say you quicksaved on the way? Is it too late to revert? Do you want to load a quicksave and try the landing again?

It is too late to revert since when I do reload the quicksave I'm in the same spot resulting in me not being able to kill my Delta-V quick enough...it just ends up with the same result...

[bewing]

So you only used the F5 quicksave, and not the Alt-F5 "named" quicksave, for any of your previous saves? I guess that's point #1 in how to keep it from happening again, then. Forget about F5, use Alt-F5 -- that function gives you more choices for how far you want to roll back time.

Landing on the Mun is the hard part. Once you have gotten that far, getting back to Kerbin is pretty trivially easy.

But the basic answer at this point is: launch a second copy of the ship, empty (no krew). Do the same transfer manuever, and get to low munar orbit. Use Alt-F5 to save. Do a more careful landing. Do it as many times as you need to get it right. Put your Kerbal on the 2nd ship, and head back to Kerbin.

[Speadge]

delta-v for a mun-return is about 1000-1500m/s. depends on your position and skills

~800 for orbital-velocity + 200-300 for eject-trajectory to kerbin.

take a heatshield with u, just in case u have to take a low periapsis to kill your speed cause u ran out of dV

Edited June 1, 2016 by Speadge

[Zhetaan]

It seems as though you don't have any real flaws in your design or your capabilities; you just committed a pilot error.  It happens.  If you've trimmed your fuel margins so that you have to do a suicide burn, then that's a problem with the safety factor, but otherwise, I don't see anything wrong.  At the very least, you had to be close to a safe velocity; part of your ship survived.  The nice thing about it is that if you know the ship is capable but you simply had a bad landing, you can send the same ship (plus a probe core, and check to make sure there are no crew!) to perform the rescue.

Of course, any as-yet-untested flaws in the return stage will still be there if you use the same ship.  The first time I did a rescue, I didn't find out until I made Mun orbit that I lacked enough dV to get back to Kerbin, so I had to send a third ship.  That blasted rescue ship sat in Mun orbit for the rest of the save, mocking me with its empty, soulless abyss of a fuel tank.  *Twitch*

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Zhetaan said:

It seems as though you don't have any real flaws in your design or your capabilities; you just committed a pilot error.  It happens.  If you've trimmed your fuel margins so that you have to do a suicide burn, then that's a problem with the safety factor, but otherwise, I don't see anything wrong.  At the very least, you had to be close to a safe velocity; part of your ship survived.  The nice thing about it is that if you know the ship is capable but you simply had a bad landing, you can send the same ship (plus a probe core, and check to make sure there are no crew!) to perform the rescue.

Of course, any as-yet-untested flaws in the return stage will still be there if you use the same ship.  The first time I did a rescue, I didn't find out until I made Mun orbit that I lacked enough dV to get back to Kerbin, so I had to send a third ship.  That blasted rescue ship sat in Mun orbit for the rest of the save, mocking me with its empty, soulless abyss of a fuel tank.  *Twitch*

I shall be one second while I retrieve some PM Messages from bewing

OK, I launched your ship -- so now we should discuss your design. I added a probe core, so it can fly without a pilot. I also added a couple little solar panels, so it can stay in space indefinitely. Your bottom stage is a little bit overpowered, but not too bad. You'd get a bit more out of it if you put nosecones on your SRBs -- they reduce drag enough to make them worthwhile. Your transfer stage has an enormous amount of fuel -- probably twice as much as you need. - this is from bewing

I shall post the craft file for you to test it yourself. (He made these improvements, the link down below does not have them) and I'm not taking the risk of soft landing a transfer stage as big as the one in terms of size compared to the landing stage. Good to know it was just a piloting error but it does annoy me that I couldn't get the entire thing down in one piece.

Craft Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jrc61c9bt5q8ynk/Mun or Bust Lander Mk_1.craft?dl=0

This is all Sandbox btw...Not Career Mode!

[Guest]

BUMP? I'd like a craft capable of what I require from the mission update...thats all literally...Sorry if Bumping isn't illegal I'd just like an awnser for my current situation thats all. Hide this Post if it is against the rules...

[bewing]

OK, I built you a little ship that can do a rescue on the Mun, and emailed it to you.

[Tiberius K]

Have you practiced with the scenario/tutorial landing and returning from the mun?  Sounds like you can learn a lot from this experience though.  Normally I'll triple-check everything before launch but on an old save I actually banished Jeb to a mark 1 crew cabin in LKO because he kept showing up in pods that were supposed to be empty!  I was punishing myself more than anything.

[Warzouz]

On 1/6/2016 at 5:13 PM, Speadge said:

...

take a heatshield with u, just in case u have to take a low periapsis to kill your speed cause u ran out of dV

Not necessary with a MK1-2 pod if you aim for 30 / 33 km. If you really want to add a heat shield set the ablator to the minimal value, you'll save much weight. Even a ship returning at high speed from Moho, won't need half the ablator. Either you blow in atmosphere before being able to use the ablator, or you won't use most of it.

[Speadge]

after my last trip to duna, i burned 600/800 of the 2.5m heatshield.... so, for starters it might be a good idea.

I know that u dont need it with some experience and spare fuel

[Guest]

No offense guys, but your not really awnsering how I fix my problem as shown by the screenies and my mission update 

[Reactordrone]

2 hours ago, awfulcraftdesigns said:

No offense guys, but your not really awnsering how I fix my problem as shown by the screenies and my mission update 

I thought someone had emailed you a craft already.

Have you tried something like this?

A probe controlled 2 seater lander to pick up your stranded kerbals and a 3 seat command module to return them to Kerbin with a Munar orbit rendezvous mission. Has plenty of Delta v, enough to land the lander twice in case the Kerbals are too separated to pick up on a single landing and you get a nice lander that you can leave in orbit for future use.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Reactordrone said:

I thought someone had emailed you a craft already.

Have you tried something like this?

A probe controlled 2 seater lander to pick up your stranded kerbals and a 3 seat command module to return them to Kerbin with a Munar orbit rendezvous mission. Has plenty of Delta v, enough to land the lander twice in case the Kerbals are too separated to pick up on a single landing and you get a nice lander that you can leave in orbit for future use.

Sorry, but I feel like maybe it would be better if you provided a solution using my current craft and modifying the craft to provide a Mk1-2 Landing Pod with enough fuel to hop to the two landing sites (It is the zoomed out shot) and if so would the lifter need modifying? I've provided a craft file on this thread somewhere...

[bewing]

It takes twice as much of everything to build a rocket that can haul two Kerbals as it takes to haul one Kerbal. Your current design can only haul one, so of course it would need to be completely rebuilt in order to haul two -- lifter and everything. But you said that Jeb's lander was intact, so he should be able to rescue himself anyway. So why isn't he? And why didn't you save the game before you launched him, so that you could revert to fix the errors?

[Guest]

I used the alt+f5 Quicksave this time, just incase I screwed up. The Lander is intact but I'm not sure it has enough fuel for recovery into Munar Orbit and back to LKO at least.  The next problem is...well I didn't really think of that at the time. I think a third ship that can make the roughly 40km distance in landing sites...its just gonna be trial and error of how much DV i need to get back...I cut down on the transfer stage meaning that I only have 1 800 Fuel Tank which made the Landing Stage worth it. 

1 hour ago, bewing said:

It takes twice as much of everything to build a rocket that can haul two Kerbals as it takes to haul one Kerbal. Your current design can only haul one, so of course it would need to be completely rebuilt in order to haul two -- lifter and everything. But you said that Jeb's lander was intact, so he should be able to rescue himself anyway. So why isn't he? And why didn't you save the game before you launched him, so that you could revert to fix the errors?

 

[bewing]

Make another Alt-F5 quicksave and try launching Jeb back -- see how far he gets. It only takes a tiny amount of fuel to get back, compared to how much it takes to get there. And it takes a lot less fuel to rescue someone from orbit than from the surface. And anyway, if your design can't even get one Kerbonaut to the Mun and back, they why do you think it can be modified to get two back?

[Guest]

I'm going to try that now actually xD

Slight problem, the electric charge situation...

 

EDIT: Yeah, I'm not getting anyway near and orbit with my current situation

[Guest]

EDIT: I tried moving Leatrid to Kerman's Ship but she died and now I pressed Normal F-9 So I can easily save her again...instead of my absurd other plan

SO YAY!

Edited June 4, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

BUMP and mind telling me what I need to add to the ascent stage of my rescue craft?

[Reactordrone]

9 hours ago, awfulcraftdesigns said:

BUMP and mind telling me what I need to add to the ascent stage of my rescue craft?

Not sure what power generation you have other than the engine alternators but a few solar panels wouldn't go astray. I'd also be inclined to remove the LV-T45 from the transfer stage and move the fuel into drop tanks for the lander engine, it saves weight and uses a much more efficient engine (using landing legs instead of fins will also save some weight). I've no idea how you intend to land the Kerbals back on Kerbin but if you aren't planning on doing a crew transfer you'll obviously need a decoupler,heat shield and parachutes

 

Edit-and for ascent stage, the one I used on my earlier contribution gets over 35tonnes into LKO.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Reactordrone

[The Optimist]

16 minutes ago, Reactordrone said:

Not sure what power generation you have other than the engine alternators but a few solar panels wouldn't go astray. I'd also be inclined to remove the LV-T45 from the transfer stage and move the fuel into drop tanks for the lander engine, it saves weight and uses a much more efficient engine (using landing legs instead of fins will also save some weight). I've no idea how you intend to land the Kerbals back on Kerbin but if you aren't planning on doing a crew transfer you'll obviously need a decoupler,heat shield and parachutes

 

Edit-and for ascent stage, the one I used on my earlier contribution gets over 35tonnes into LKO.

It's probably chock-full of RTGs. I know mine are.

[Guest]

Not planning to use crew transfer and Landing Legs are glitches in 1.1.2 resulting in me using fins. I'm not quite sure what you mean by drop tanks? Also it's not a LTV-45 it is a Vector Engine. I'm struggling to find another way to strut together the transfer and landing stage without it flipping out. Hope anyone can help, it is much appreciated. Solar Panels will be something to beconsidered.

Also planning to drop the Remote Unit since one Kerbal shall be piloting the rescue craft.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Guest