Satellites whilst viewing through telescopes and Northern Astronomy.

[DMSP]

Hey all! I have never really posted on this forum much because I don't have much to offer here-but I finally got my first telescope a few days ago and I may be showing up quite a bit now.

Aright, before the question, a backstory.

So at the moment I am unable to get out of the city center to go to a darker area. This is because of school and lack of availability. My window, interestingly enough, points directly North, so I have a great view (I do have to look farther up, I'm in a Central European city) of Polaris.

Now, I was searching for NGC 188 (using my 6inch Celestron 6se) and saw a small light, roughly what I'd think a small satellite would look like shoot across. Took less than a second. After failing to find NGC 188 (I think my alignment is off) I went back to Polaris and saw another one streak across. They had no trails, were white, and just flew across the viewpoint. Definitely not meteors.

So is this possible, it was the right time to see a satellite and I was thinking that I would be able to see a small polar satellite streak across in my telescope.

So what were those lights?

 

My other question, is since I am pretty limited to viewing (only a couple of degrees around Polaris [I'm guessing 10 degrees]), what is there to see in the night sky there?

Thanks for reading guys, and see you back here!

Edited June 6, 2016 by DMSP

[cubinator]

What time was it when you saw the dots? There are certain times of the night when many satellites are visible, but if it was too early or too late it would be unlikely. I've seen plenty of satellites, but never through a telescope. You must have gotten really lucky!

[Motokid600]

Hello! Welcome to the forums. I've been into amateur astronomy for about six years now. Bought myself a cpc1100 and went absolutely nuts with the hobby. 

First things first. Never look out a window with a telescope. That's a big astronomy no-no. The convention currents moving through that window will significantly degrade your image. 

That being said. You said you live in the city? Fear not. Because planetary astronomy is actually BETTER in a city. The best amateur photos I've seen of the planet's were taken from dense cities. Planet's are bright, defined points of light that don't require a dark sky what so ever. And being in the city means your inside the heat column rising off the city which gives you a window through the upper atmosphere. Stable air is most important when looking at planet's and living in the city is great for that. However with everything else such as nebulae and galaxies you want those dark, rural skies.

About the objects you saw around Polaris. I see them all the time. They are either satellites in a high orbit, space junk or near-earth objects. ( which could be things like rocket upper stages or asteroids )

As far as what you can see around Polaris I'd have to get a chart out, but the number one thing right off the top of my mind is the Andromeda Galaxy. Not far from Polaris in the Cassiopeia constellation if I recall correctly. The big W.

I highly, highly recommend you buy yourself some books. This one in particular. 

http://www.amazon.com/Backyard-Astronomers-Guide-Terence-Dickinson/dp/1554073448

That is my bible. It has everything you need to know and more. Good luck with your telescope in the future. You'll find it's one of if not the most rewarding hobby there is.

15 minutes ago, cubinator said:

What time was it when you saw the dots? There are certain times of the night when many satellites are visible, but if it was too early or too late it would be unlikely. I've seen plenty of satellites, but never through a telescope. You must have gotten really lucky!

Some satellites you can see throughout the entire night. In particular high orbit, inclined satellites that are in constant day light. Depends on the time of the year.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Motokid600

[cubinator]

28 minutes ago, Motokid600 said:

Some satellites you can see throughout the entire night. In particular high orbit, inclined satellites that are in constant day light. Depends on the time of the year.

Yes, but there are fewer of those. There are certain times of night when it's very easy to spot orbiting objects, when it's dark enough to see but close enough to the terminator that most of the stuff above you is in daylight.

[DMSP]

20 minutes ago, cubinator said:

What time was it when you saw the dots? There are certain times of the night when many satellites are visible, but if it was too early or too late it would be unlikely. I've seen plenty of satellites, but never through a telescope. You must have gotten really lucky!

It was perfect time to see a satellite from what I know. After sunset but not too long after. Also I couldn't see the satellites with my eyes when I looked at the location where they should have been.

 

11 minutes ago, Motokid600 said:

Hello! Welcome to the forums. I've been into amateur astronomy for about six years now. Bought myself a cpc1100 and went absolutely nuts with the hobby. 

First things first. Never look out a window with a telescope. That's a big astronomy no-no. The convention currents moving through that window will significantly degrade your image. 

Hi! Thanks for the welcome, but you're 1647 posts to late! Heh. Wow! That's quite a bit of time!

Don't worry, the window is always open. Didn't know what convention currents were involved. Cool stuff, thanks for telling me!

16 minutes ago, Motokid600 said:

That being said. You said you live in the city? Fear not. Because planetary astronomy is actually BETTER in a city. The best amateur photos I've seen of the planet's were taken from dense cities. Planet's are bright, defined points of light that don't require a dark sky what so ever. And being in the city means your inside the heat column rising off the city which gives you a window through the upper atmosphere. Stable air is most important when looking at planet's and living in the city is great for that. However with everything else such as nebulae and galaxies you want those dark, rural skies.

Really!? Again, I didn't know that. As my luck would have it the plane of the ecliptic is below the horizon when looking out of my window so no planets for me

Yes, the Atacama had he best skies I ever saw. Now that I think of it I saw the Andromeda Galaxy there for the first time.

24 minutes ago, Motokid600 said:

About the objects you saw around Polaris. I see them all the time. They are either satellites in a high orbit, space junk or near-earth objects. ( which could be things like rocket upper stages or asteroids )

As far as what you can see around Polaris I'd have to get a chart out, but the number one thing right off the top of my mind is the Andromeda Galaxy. Not far from Polaris in the Cassiopeia constellation if I recall correctly. The big W.

Yep, guessed it. Betting it was something like a Iridium satellite, a soviet sat or a piece of debris. Kinda doubting Iridium but who knows.

Andromeda, unfortunately, is too far down for me. My window only allows me a certain range and the apartments around also restrict me even more.

28 minutes ago, Motokid600 said:

I highly, highly recommend you buy yourself some books. This one in particular. 

http://www.amazon.com/Backyard-Astronomers-Guide-Terence-Dickinson/dp/1554073448

That is my bible. It has everything you need to know and more. Good luck with your telescope in the future. You'll find it's one of if not the most rewarding hobby there is.

I do have two! One is turn left at Orion, which I find amazing, and another one which I can't remember the name of but has a couple hundred pages and is seasonal for Spring and Summer.

Thank you for the luck, I can't wait to finally bring Astronomy out of the tour groups and the Internet and finally into my own hands.

Thank you for the awesomely detailed response! Have a good one! 

[Motokid600]

Sounds like you need to get mobile. If you don't have much of a yard try taking your scope to a local field of sorts.

[Green Baron]

Yep, those were most likely satellites. There are a lot up there.

It was already said that you should not point out of the window due to air currents, go out on the fields or in a park or maybe you know someone with a terrace, away from the center ? And give your 6" Schmidt-Cassegrain mirror 2-3 hours to adapt to temperature, maybe there are other starfriends nearby, try to join them, they can help a beginner a lot. Do you know http://www.cloudynights.com/page/index.html ?

I live on an island where the sky can be very dark (and the internet very slow), got a 4.5" APO and an 8" Newton. The aerea around polaris is not the most interesting given the fact that the seeing in your vicinity (you mentioned city centre) is probably limited to >6mag, even with a telescope. The darker it is, the clearer the sky, the higher you are, the more you can see.

Get a few decent eyepieces if you don't have already, 15mm, 22mm, 35mm or so, field of view 70° or more if your purse allows (there are calculators out there ;-), bear in mind that magnification is mostly limited by the seeing conditions, the higher the factor (it's focal lenght of the tube / focal length of the eyepiece), the snaller the field of view and the darker the sight. The tech sheet says 350 as max. for your tube, make that half ;-) You*ll find out :-)

Have fun !

 

Edit: ah, and never, NEVER, N.E.V.E.R point at the sun unshielded ! You'll loose your sight !

Editedit: NGC 188 has an apparent magnitude of 10, that's rather faint. Probably you wont see it from out of a city center. Let me suggest to try objects with an apparent magnitude of 6 or higher (i. e. lower: 6, 5, 4, ....), especially when unsure about the telescopes alignment ...

Edited June 6, 2016 by Green Baron

[benzman]

Probably the best time to see satellites is about an hour before sunrise or after sunset.  Then the sky is dark but the satellite will still be in sunlight.  Any slowly moving dot that does not flash or have a tail is virtually certain to be a satellite.  They are like shooting stars, stay out long enough on any night and you are bound to see one.  As an aside, I well remember standing on a street corner in 1957 and seeing the first Sputnik,  It was the most amazing thing that this fourteen year old boy had ever seen.

 

[Green Baron]

Just now, benzman said:

Probably the best time to see satellites is about an hour before sunrise or after sunset.  Then the sky is dark but the satellite will still be in sunlight.  Any slowly moving dot that does not flash or have a tail is virtually certain to be a satellite.  They are like shooting stars, stay out long enough on any night and you are bound to see one.  As an aside, I well remember standing on a street corner in 1957 and seeing the first Sputnik,  It was the most amazing thing that this fourteen year old boy had ever seen.

 

Wow, sir  !

[cantab]

Could very well have been a satellite. Summer seems to be a good time to see them, probably because you're usually observing relatively soon after sunset - indeed in Britain it never gets truly dark in the summer - so the satellites are still lit up even when it's twilight on the ground.

The best satellite sighting I had was through binoculars, I was viewing M31 (Andromeda Galaxy) and a pair of satellites flew past, flanking the galaxy as I saw it. Seeing one sat is common, but the pair plus Andromeda, that was cool.

But I think benzman rather one-ups that. And just told us he's a total old fogey

[LordFerret]

benzman is correct, sunrise/sunset. Late at night even at certain times for Iridium flares and a few other things.

There are a number of sites out there which can help you identify what's above you at any time (in real time). You might want to check some of them out and see what works best for you.

http://science.nasa.gov/realtime/jtrack/3d/JTrack3D.html/
http://science.nasa.gov/iSat/?group=SMD
http://www.n2yo.com/
http://www.satflare.com/track.asp#TOP
http://www.satview.org/

[DMSP]

7 hours ago, Motokid600 said:

Sounds like you need to get mobile. If you don't have much of a yard try taking your scope to a local field of sorts.

Yup, weekend is good for that. Until then, my Polar Window it is.

6 hours ago, Green Baron said:

It was already said that you should not point out of the window due to air currents, go out on the fields or in a park or maybe you know someone with a terrace, away from the center ? And give your 6" Schmidt-Cassegrain mirror 2-3 hours to adapt to temperature, maybe there are other starfriends nearby, try to join them, they can help a beginner a lot. Do you know http://www.cloudynights.com/page/index.html ?

I live on an island where the sky can be very dark (and the internet very slow), got a 4.5" APO and an 8" Newton. The aerea around polaris is not the most interesting given the fact that the seeing in your vicinity (you mentioned city centre) is probably limited to >6mag, even with a telescope. The darker it is, the clearer the sky, the higher you are, the more you can see.

Unfortunately I have nothing but the window until Friday at the earliest. I do have a spot, out a couple kilometers from the city, in the fields, that will have dark skies (nothing comparable to a desert, of course, but pretty dark) and I will be able to see plenty there.

Slow internet *gasp* How have you kept your sanity?

Ok, that's fine. I'll Well that isn't the best news, but I'll still look around at some of the stars. NGC 188 looks promising and hopefully I can get something out of it.

18 hours ago, Green Baron said:

Get a few decent eyepieces if you don't have already, 15mm, 22mm, 35mm or so, field of view 70° or more if your purse allows (there are calculators out there ;-), bear in mind that magnification is mostly limited by the seeing conditions, the higher the factor (it's focal lenght of the tube / focal length of the eyepiece), the snaller the field of view and the darker the sight. The tech sheet says 350 as max. for your tube, make that half ;-) You*ll find out :-)

Have fun !

 

Edit: ah, and never, NEVER, N.E.V.E.R point at the sun unshielded ! You'll loose your sight !

Editedit: NGC 188 has an apparent magnitude of 10, that's rather faint. Probably you wont see it from out of a city center. Let me suggest to try objects with an apparent magnitude of 6 or higher (i. e. lower: 6, 5, 4, ....), especially when unsure about the telescopes alignment ...

I have two, one is 25 mm, the other is 25x magnification (???). 25x was much more powerful, how many millimeters was it?

Yep, basic knowledge, but thanks for the reminder anyway! I'm hoping to get a solar filter that will prevent a) heat buildup in the telescope and b) well, will keep my sight intact.

Shoot, that kinda sucks. It says that a 6 inch telescope can see it fine but you're right, in a city there may be added issues.

18 hours ago, benzman said:

Probably the best time to see satellites is about an hour before sunrise or after sunset.  Then the sky is dark but the satellite will still be in sunlight.  Any slowly moving dot that does not flash or have a tail is virtually certain to be a satellite.  They are like shooting stars, stay out long enough on any night and you are bound to see one.  As an aside, I well remember standing on a street corner in 1957 and seeing the first Sputnik,  It was the most amazing thing that this fourteen year old boy had ever seen.

Yup, I'm actually quite happy with my two satellites, because they brought the number of satellites I have seen up to 100! Yahoo *imagine party streamers flying*

That must have been amazing. Nice job spotting such a small dot!

17 hours ago, cantab said:

Could very well have been a satellite. Summer seems to be a good time to see them, probably because you're usually observing relatively soon after sunset - indeed in Britain it never gets truly dark in the summer - so the satellites are still lit up even when it's twilight on the ground.

The best satellite sighting I had was through binoculars, I was viewing M31 (Andromeda Galaxy) and a pair of satellites flew past, flanking the galaxy as I saw it. Seeing one sat is common, but the pair plus Andromeda, that was cool.

But I think benzman rather one-ups that. And just told us he's a total old fogey

Heh, once I was looking at Orion and saw two satellites cross paths. That was really interesting because the chances of that happening must have been really small.

I'm really pumped to see Andromeda with my telescope! Hopefully it will be above the horizon.

16 hours ago, LordFerret said:

benzman is correct, sunrise/sunset. Late at night even at certain times for Iridium flares and a few other things.

There are a number of sites out there which can help you identify what's above you at any time (in real time). You might want to check some of them out and see what works best for you.

http://science.nasa.gov/realtime/jtrack/3d/JTrack3D.html/
http://science.nasa.gov/iSat/?group=SMD
http://www.n2yo.com/
http://www.satflare.com/track.asp#TOP
http://www.satview.org/

Yep, I've been keeping an eye out for Iridium flares but have seen nothing as of right now.

Thanks for the websites!

 

Thank you to everyone who has replied! On another note I will be able to angle my telescope to see Jupiter, I'm praying for a good view!

You guys rock, happy star watching, gazing, or observing.

[Green Baron]

1 hour ago, DMSP said:

I have two, one is 25 mm, the other is 25x magnification (???). 25x was much more powerful, how many millimeters was it?

Yep, basic knowledge, but thanks for the reminder anyway! I'm hoping to get a solar filter that will prevent a) heat buildup in the telescope and b) well, will keep my sight intact.

Heh, once I was looking at Orion and saw two satellites cross paths. That was really interesting because the chances of that happening must have been really small.

I'm really pumped to see Andromeda with my telescope! Hopefully it will be above the horizon.

25* magnification is a funny thing indeed, it probably was part of a set, thus the facter instead of focal length. 25mm then is 1500/25 = 60* magnification. For Jupiter get a 10mm (not less, you'll have a very dark and narrow picture and only magnify turbulences). There are quite decent 100° apparent field of view 9mm eyepieces (silly name explore scientific, but not as pricey as f.e. televue) ;-), and 70° 36mm (e.g. hyperion) for moon, clusters and nebulae. You'll love it. (i assmume you have a 2" connection and 1,25" reducing piece ?).

From an astroshop or over the internet get a solar protection foil, a sheet A5 is about 20,- and tinker a cardboard enforced cap for your tube. Since your tube is completely closed it will heat up a lot when observing the sun, might even be damaged. Sun is interesting when it has sun spots or an inner planet or the moon crosses it (hi flat earthers !). A good idea to reduce risk when observing the sun is a projection screen: any white cardboard and an arm with a clip will do.

Since your mount is equatorial you need electricity when in the field: a cheap car-battery, charger and 12v connector. A Bahtinov mask helps focussing (cut one out from black paper and laminate it in a copy shop).

Glad to help :-)

 

[cantab]

3 hours ago, DMSP said:

I have two, one is 25 mm, the other is 25x magnification (???). 25x was much more powerful, how many millimeters was it?

Pictures? And did you use that "25x" piece by itself or with another eyepiece? I'm wondering if it wasn't a 2.5x Barlow lens, which is used in conjunction with an eyepiece to increase its magnification by the factor stated.

[YNM]

You're very lucky to see anything streaks in your finder/eyepiece

Satellites moves across the sky from a minute up to a few minutes depending on height. Meteors only for a few seconds. So something that streaks seconds in your finder is amazing.

For what to look around Polaris, TBH I can't even see Polaris. There isn't much in bright-SB DSOs, maybe you can look at the binary M40 or something. The only thing close to your required FoV would be Messier 81 - Messier 82, but then it's a DSO, I can't guarantee what will you see. Small telescopes with f/D of 10 or larger are best used for planets and the Moon, which are nowhere near Polaris.

(FYI I have a 5' / 127 mm diameter 1500 mm focus Mak-Cas, and M31 looks only like a faint cloud. Unless you get things up from 8' I don't recommend looking at DSOs apart from open clusters.)

EDIT : Considering you live in Central Europe, your FoV is likely to be farther "down" to the north. You can see things around Andromeda or something, if the horizon is great. Really depends on the window.

Edited June 8, 2016 by YNM

[DMSP]

Well, I have no idea about any of my equipment, @Green Baron and @cantab. Over the next couple of weeks I am going back to find out as much as I can. I think that I have a 16 mm eyepiece and a 25 mm eyepiece.

Well, I headed across the apartment to another window, and found Jupiter.

My "rig": Celestron 6SE, Hand, Phone. Pretty advanced.

I wasn't able to find the accurate positions of the moons online, so I am guessing (in order from Jupiter) that those are Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto.

The phone was unable to catch the equatorial cloud bands but that is alright, I just want to say I could see them. The clouds of Jupiter are amazing.

I got pretty close to finding NGC 188 but cloud cover took over the view and I called it off for the night.

I've added a few northern targets that I will try to look at, they are NGC 40 (Bow Tie Nebula), NGC 4236, M81 (Bode's Galaxy), M82 (Cigar Galaxy) and NGC 7023 (Iris Nebula). They should all be visible from my window. In two days I will be able to see the Moon above those stinking apartments (from the Jupiter window, not the Polar one) and there will probably be plenty of contrast on the surface. Looking forward to it.

If the weather holds up I will be heading out on Friday night, with my targets being Saturn, Mars, the Andromeda Galaxy (with M110), The Crab Nebula, NGC 55, The Triangulum Galaxy, NGC 147 and Finally NGC 185. I'll probably run out of time before I see everything but oh well.

Wish me luck.

[benzman]

On 6/7/2016 at 10:38 AM, cantab said:

But I think benzman rather one-ups that. And just told us he's a total old fogey

I prefer to think of myself as a Grumpy Old Man!

[YNM]

6 hours ago, DMSP said:

I got pretty close to finding NGC 188 but cloud cover took over the view and I called it off for the night.

I've added a few northern targets that I will try to look at, they are NGC 40 (Bow Tie Nebula), NGC 4236, M81 (Bode's Galaxy), M82 (Cigar Galaxy) and NGC 7023 (Iris Nebula). They should all be visible from my window. In two days I will be able to see the Moon above those stinking apartments (from the Jupiter window, not the Polar one) and there will probably be plenty of contrast on the surface. Looking forward to it.

If the weather holds up I will be heading out on Friday night, with my targets being Saturn, Mars, the Andromeda Galaxy (with M110), The Crab Nebula, NGC 55, The Triangulum Galaxy, NGC 147 and Finally NGC 185. I'll probably run out of time before I see everything but oh well.

Wish me luck.

Wish you luck indeed. Even the said-bright M4 was a hard thing for me if you didn't know where to look and what to expect. My only observation of it so far. (you probably should post your results in this thread, would be good to have a "branch" on this forum.)

 

6 hours ago, DMSP said:

Well, I headed across the apartment to another window, and found Jupiter.

My "rig": Celestron 6SE, Hand, Phone. Pretty advanced.

...

I wasn't able to find the accurate positions of the moons online, so I am guessing (in order from Jupiter) that those are Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto.

The phone was unable to catch the equatorial cloud bands but that is alright, I just want to say I could see them. The clouds of Jupiter are amazing.

If you get a DSLR then investing in a T-ring adapter would be great. What's your mounting anyway ? Motorized, computerized ? If it does then it's even better - those elusive DSOs are just a few seconds more exposure away.

Edited June 8, 2016 by YNM

[Green Baron]

I should have looked more thoroughly: your mount is not equatorial but altitude/azimuth, this means one axis is upright, the other parallel to the ground. This is not optimal for fotography, especially long term exposures, because 2 axis' have to be motorized / continuously adjusted. But it's perfectly ok for the first steps ;-)

cs (clear skies)

[YNM]

Most current computerized mountings are alt-azimuth. It's not a big deal, in fact it's more mobile, far easier and more precise (straight-out) to use. Just that you lost all the "fun" common in setting up those manual german EQ mountings...

Edited June 8, 2016 by YNM

[Green Baron]

15 hours ago, YNM said:

Most current computerized mountings are alt-azimuth. It's not a big deal, in fact it's more mobile, far easier and more precise (straight-out) to use. Just that you lost all the "fun" common in setting up those manual german EQ mountings...

 

Am of the exactly opposite opinion but everyone as he/she can and wants ... :-)

btw.: yesterday where perfect conditions here on La Palma ! The 1 out of 100 day ...

Edited June 9, 2016 by Green Baron

[Oafman]

On 7 June 2016 at 6:51 PM, DMSP said:

Yep, I've been keeping an eye out for Iridium flares but have seen nothing as of right now.

Get an app for your phone (or ideally tablet) called Heavens Above. It takes your location and calculates when you'll be able to see Iridium Flares (and ISS passes, and loads of other satellites). It shows you on a sky map, so you could get your telescope set up pointing at an object the flare will pass, and I guess you'll be able to see it as it streaks across. Though of course you don't need a telescope to see iridium flares, they're very bright. 

On 8 June 2016 at 9:47 AM, DMSP said:

I wasn't able to find the accurate positions of the moons online, so I am guessing (in order from Jupiter) that those are Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto.

I first saw Jupiter through a telescope last year. It's jaw dropping isn't it. Especially the clarity of Jupiter's atmosphere and of the Galilean moons. 

This site will tell you which moon is which: http://www.shallowsky.com/jupiter/

Edited June 9, 2016 by Oafman

[YNM]

7 hours ago, Green Baron said:

Am of the exactly opposite opinion but everyone as he/she can and wants ... :-)

Not until I realized most of the new high-end computerized things are alt-azimuth out-of-the-box.

Gotta love the hassle of german EQ !

[Green Baron]

 

Ok, let's start a religious war :-)

Nobody around here has an alt/az.-mounting. Maybe because nobody has an out-of-the-box equipment. There are quite a few private observatories, when hiking one can see the "mushrooms" in the landscape. Sadly i can't afford that ...

I put it on the terrace and level it with the built in water bubble (that*s the difficult part, it's not necessary to level it but i just do it), polar axis roughly aiming at polaris, look through the viewfinder and turn the declination axis until big dipper or cassiopeia is in the right position, that's a movement out of the wrist. Two screws until polaris is where it should be and that's it. I bet i'm faster than anyone with a goto and 2 stars (better 3). And far more accurate.

Just looked at the f.. handbook: 6 pages for goto-setup, 0,5 pages for manual setup (... ok plus 1 page polar finder description).

See :-) ?

Edit: i'm by far not criticising any out-of-the-box equipment like celestron, meade, etc. Many people can share that hobby for an affordable price with these telescopes/mounts, which would otherwise not be possible. Hough.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Green Baron

[SuperFastJellyfish]

On 6/8/2016 at 3:47 AM, DMSP said:

I wasn't able to find the accurate positions of the moons online, so I am guessing (in order from Jupiter) that those are Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto.

I use an Android app called 'Where is Io' for this purpose.  I highly recommend it.  Also, at my computer, before I do any observing, I open up Stellarium and plan my targets before I head out.  Then in the field(or my balcony ) I use Celestron's Skyportal app on my phone for the sky map.  I'm glad you got to see Jupiter.  Easily, my favorite object to observe.

I have the bigger brother to your scope, the Nexstar 8SE.  Best scope I've ever owned.   

Quote

Just looked at the f.. handbook: 6 pages for goto-setup, 0,5 pages for manual setup (... ok plus 1 page polar finder description).

The initial goto setup was a pain, but you only have to do it once.  After that you just level it, enter the time/date/location, and align to a few named stars.  Easy peesy.  You are probably faster, but it only takes minutes.    I've never used anything but alt-az, but would love to try my hand at a GEM.  Unfortunately, this hobby is expensive and I can only afford so much.

Edited June 9, 2016 by SuperFastJellyfish
speeling