Interstellar Extended for Dummies

[Nansuchao]

1 hour ago, sdrevik said:

Well, as it turns out, I back-loaded 1.9.4 to land all my 'invalid' designs and get my $$ back, then I reloaded 1.9.5, and.... it behaves the same.  No reactor control panel, no need for power for plasma and DT drives.  I had it running, all I did was copy the 1.9.5 files on top of the 1.9.4 files earlier.   Why would it not do it this time?

 

Here's a link to an image of the "bugged" SSTO.    I can send the reactors with no control panels, too, if you wish:

 

 

 

Here's the ship with the reactor that doesn't generate- not the batteries almost discharged.  When I had it working, right-clicking the reactor gave me a whole control panel that I no longer see anymore:

 

Thanks, if you can upload your output.log too, I can submit your report to FreeThinker for a future fix.

[sdrevik]

Sure: 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40956047/output_log.txt

 

[Nansuchao]

2 minutes ago, sdrevik said:

Sure: 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40956047/output_log.txt

 

Thank you very much!

 

@FreeThinker,bug report for you.

[FreeThinker]

9 hours ago, Nansuchao said:

Thanks, if you can upload your output.log too, I can submit your report to FreeThinker for a future fix.

In the log I noticed several mods are unable to properly load again

Something must have gone wrong while extracting KSPI-E in our gamedata folder. Please make a backup your gamedata files, remove everything in your Gamedata folder except  Squad folder and reinstall all your mods.

Edited July 12, 2016 by FreeThinker

[sdrevik]

Done, no luck.   I removed Toolbar, because it said I had to revert to 1.1.2 to use it.    I put it back in the folder, and that seems to have solved it.   Thanks!

[chukovskiy]

Had exactly the same issue as jjlehto with Magneto Inertial Fusion. As I activated it in space, all I could get is 0.275 kN thrust / 3000 Isp with any wild combination of different reactors in sandbox mode.
 

On 27.06.2016 at 0:29 AM, jjlehto said:

I am in career. 0.2 kn is quite null, but I believe the value it's extrapolated from when the engine "pulses" for a fraction of second. I tested  the engine with a dusty plasma reactor, with a dusty attached to a fusion reactor, and with a dusty, fusion, and particles electric generator attached. No luck, it keeps behaving like described.

In my case the problem is directly related to NearFutureElectrical. Not sure what part of the mod exactly. I deleted literally everything except parts/batteries and parts/capacitors, and still it causes MIF malfunction.

Edited July 12, 2016 by chukovskiy

[Nansuchao]

1 hour ago, chukovskiy said:

Had exactly the same issue as jjlehto with Magneto Inertial Fusion. As I activated it in space, all I could get is 0.275 kN thrust / 3000 Isp with any wild combination of different reactors in sandbox mode.
 

In my case the problem is directly related to NearFutureElectrical. Not sure what part of the mod exactly. I deleted literally everything except parts/batteries and parts/capacitors, and still it causes MIF malfunction.

So, try to delete everything from NF, the Module Manager Cache and try again. If you still have issues, post a screen of your ship and your output log, so we'll see what is happening.

[sdrevik]

Another new issue:  Transported a new module to add reactor and generator to my craft.   I can't right-click on the reactor to see/control anything, it's treated like it's not even there.   Every other component I can right click on.   When I try to start generator, it says there is no reactor, even though there is one glued right to it.   Modules are new (e.g., not out of fuel).    When I test the craft on the pad, same thing, but when I make another craft with just the reactor and generator and radiators, it works fine.

[chukovskiy]

6 hours ago, Nansuchao said:

So, try to delete everything from NF, the Module Manager Cache and try again. If you still have issues, post a screen of your ship and your output log, so we'll see what is happening.

So let's do this. Tested on game with the only KSPI-E unpacked just few minutes ago, no other mods.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCbVE3bHp4bExSUXM <--- log where MIF did not work (bad log)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCSjVUbjNOeUdZejA <--- log where MIF worked (good log)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCTE1UbG1Xa0tTTEk <--- vessel. It is actually (MIF) - (Molten Salt) - (yellow probe + radiators). Don't be confused - the image was taken under some other mods.

Below is what I did to record good and bad log:

Good: launch game@enjoy. MM created 1766 patches.

Bad: create an empty "NearFutureElectrical" folder and remove "ModuleManager.ConfigCache". 1920 patches. It doesn't matter what is inside the folder though. It might be full working module, but result is always the same.

Edited July 12, 2016 by chukovskiy

[Nansuchao]

11 minutes ago, chukovskiy said:

So let's do this. Tested on game with the only KSPI-E unpacked just few minutes ago, no other mods.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCbVE3bHp4bExSUXM <--- log where MIF did not work (bad log)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCSjVUbjNOeUdZejA <--- log where MIF worked (good log)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCTE1UbG1Xa0tTTEk <--- vessel. It is actually (MIF) - (Molten Salt) - (yellow probe + radiators). Don't be confused - the image was taken under some other mods.

Below is what I did to record good and bad log:

Good: launch game@enjoy. MM created 1766 patches.

Bad: create an empty "NearFutureElectrical" folder and remove "ModuleManager.ConfigCache". 1920 patches.

Thank you very much, I'll take a look as soon as possible (tomorrow in the morning, now it's night here) and I'll let you know.

[Nansuchao]

@chukovskiy, I saw your logs and the image. In the pics it's normal you have 0 eveywhere, the engine needs to be started by staging or right clicking. There's nothing wrong in your logs (both of them) to justify the wrong behavior of the engine, so it's definitely something from NF that doesn't work well with KSPI-E. About that I cannot help you, you have to ask to Nertea and/or FreeThinker.

[sdrevik]

Quick strategy question:  I've been testing various designs to drive the DT thruster, and found something odd about the fusion reactor.   The first one I put up had a regular thermal generator, and it seemed to run well.   When I 'upgraded' it to direct energy (particles) converter, it seemed that it overheated more (with the same radiator arrangement), and I couldn't run the DT at as high a throttle as with the thermal electric generator.

Is the reason that the particle generator isn't bleeding off heat the same way, and I would need either more radiators with the direct/particle generator?   Can I put one generator of each type on each end of the reactor and get even better performance by better heat transfer away from the fusion reactor?

I would just test this, but it's a pain to lift everything into orbit every time you need to run a simple test.

[Nansuchao]

As much as the efficiency of the generator is improved, the same reactor can produce more energy and directly more waste heat. The radiators situations goes better when you upgrade them. Luckily, you have a big choiche of different radiators, some moths ago you had just 4 kind of them, two useless after the first serious reactor nodes.

For testing purpose you can use Hyperedit. However, with some experience you'll be able to put the right amount of radiators without much trouble or the Thermal Helper.

[sdrevik]

Thanks, I ran a test with both generators attached, six large folding radiators, and the DT can now pretty much run full throttle.

The "Tug" achieves orbit with 240 kN thrust, 70 tons weight, and 11000 to 18000 dV (depending on DT settings), with a peak acceleration of about 3.4 m/s2.   I now need to compare it to my regular liquid fueled LV-N tug to see if it's that much better.   

By comparison, my liquid-fueld LV-N tug has about 10,000 dv, acceleration of about 2.6 m/s2.  Significantly lower cost, though.   So, the DT tug is a highly specialized and expensive piece of hardware.

Now time to play with beamed microwave power.  I assume the way to make a base station is to put a bunch of reactors on a rover and drive it off into the field near the base?

[Nansuchao]

20 minutes ago, sdrevik said:

Thanks, I ran a test with both generators attached, six large folding radiators, and the DT can now pretty much run full throttle.

The "Tug" achieves orbit with 240 kN thrust, 70 tons weight, and 11000 to 18000 dV (depending on DT settings), with a peak acceleration of about 3.4 m/s2.   I now need to compare it to my regular liquid fueled LV-N tug to see if it's that much better.   

By comparison, my liquid-fueld LV-N tug has about 10,000 dv, acceleration of about 2.6 m/s2.  Significantly lower cost, though.   So, the DT tug is a highly specialized and expensive piece of hardware.

Now time to play with beamed microwave power.  I assume the way to make a base station is to put a bunch of reactors on a rover and drive it off into the field near the base?

For a good microwave web, I suggest maybe one or two good reactors near the KSC, and a constellation of them in orbit, Keostationary polar orbit. Then you can begin to put many of them in interplanetary space. The goals is to have as many GW of energy as possible in every part of the system, so a very good number of reactors and relays are needed. Back in 0.90, at the end of a save with a Star System planet pack, I was able to receive 4 GW of power while orbiting a star far from Kerbol. From the tracking station, I had something more than 200 reactors in space. That was too much

[chukovskiy]

GameData\WarpPlugin\Patches\USI_NF_Mode.cfg

Part related to MagneticConfinement powered by Molten Salt:

Quote

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[InterstellarFissionMSRGC]]:NEEDS[NearFutureElectrical]:FOR[WarpPlugin]
{
    @MODULE[InterstellarFissionMSRGC]
    {
        @neutronEmbrittlementDivider *= 0.002
        %fuelUsePerMJMult = 500
        %wasteHeatMultiplier = 0.002
        %powerOutputMultiplier = 0.002
    }
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[InterstellarInertialConfinementReactor]]:NEEDS[NearFutureElectrical]:FOR[WarpPlugin]
{
    @MODULE[InterstellarInertialConfinementReactor]
    {
        @neutronEmbrittlementDivider *= 0.002
        %fuelUsePerMJMult = 500 
        %wasteHeatMultiplier = 0.002
        %powerOutputMultiplier = 0.002
    }
}

I have no idea what these strings are supposed to do, but below are two screens. First one was taken with NF Electrical and without this code, and the second one in reversed conditions. Find any differencies.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCb29MZko3T0I0elE

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCLVdhQmpYU1pDTVk

Looks like outdated compatibility patch. ATM this patch and NF electrical are clearly incompatible.

[Nansuchao]

44 minutes ago, chukovskiy said:

GameData\WarpPlugin\Patches\USI_NF_Mode.cfg

Part related to MagneticConfinement powered by Molten Salt:

I have no idea what these strings are supposed to do, but below are two screens. First one was taken with NF Electrical and without this code, and the second one in reversed conditions. Find any differencies.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCb29MZko3T0I0elE

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCLVdhQmpYU1pDTVk

Looks like outdated compatibility patch. ATM this patch and NF electrical are clearly incompatible.

Something needs to be tweaked there. Summoning @FreeThinker

Edited July 13, 2016 by Nansuchao

[FreeThinker]

8 hours ago, Nansuchao said:

Something needs to be tweaked there. Summoning @FreeThinker

Sorry, what is the problem, hey appear to have the same thrust (when lithium storage is taken into account) . So why the sad face?

Edit: The only issue I see is that the engine is affected by lithium storage, which it shouldn't. I will fix it next patch

Edited July 14, 2016 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

8 hours ago, chukovskiy said:

Looks like outdated compatibility patch. ATM this patch and NF electrical are clearly incompatible.

Exactly what is clearly incompatible?

[Nansuchao]

1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Sorry, what is the problem, hey appear to have the same thrust (when lithium storage is taken into account) . So why the sad face?

I'm sorry, I was really tired at that time, probably I saw some ghosts...

[chukovskiy]

1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Exactly what is clearly incompatible?

Like I said, with NearFutureElectrical installed, WarpPlugin obviously activates related patches from its Patches folder. The one I managed to find, called "USI_NF_Mode.cfg", applies some changes that lead to extremely low thrust using, in my case, Magnetic Inertial Fusion (powered by Molten Salt). See here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCQ040cE9IY3gtV0U

Without this patch everything seems to function exactly as it should.

That's all I can say. Maybe this patch is not needed at all, but I can't say for sure.

[FreeThinker]

15 minutes ago, chukovskiy said:

Like I said, with NearFutureElectrical installed, WarpPlugin obviously activates related patches from its Patches folder. The one I managed to find, called "USI_NF_Mode.cfg", applies some changes that lead to extremely low thrust using, in my case, Magnetic Inertial Fusion (powered by Molten Salt). See here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-CeLSG9s3dCQ040cE9IY3gtV0U

Without this patch everything seems to function exactly as it should.

That's all I can say. Maybe this patch is not needed at all, but I can't say for sure.

Alright, now I see the problem. It appears the recieved energy isn't correctly multiplied with a compensating factor. I will fix it soon

[sdrevik]

On 7/13/2016 at 1:37 PM, sdrevik said:

Thanks, I ran a test with both generators attached, six large folding radiators, and the DT can now pretty much run full throttle.

The "Tug" achieves orbit with 240 kN thrust, 70 tons weight, and 11000 to 18000 dV (depending on DT settings), with a peak acceleration of about 3.4 m/s2.   I now need to compare it to my regular liquid fueled LV-N tug to see if it's that much better.   

By comparison, my liquid-fueld LV-N tug has about 10,000 dv, acceleration of about 2.6 m/s2.  Significantly lower cost, though.   So, the DT tug is a highly specialized and expensive piece of hardware.

As an additional note- I can mine ore and replace liquid fuel out pretty much anywhere.    Making liquid H2 doesn't seem to be obvious, and when I ran a test with an ISRU, I could only make about 170 units/day.  So, to refuel my tug (72,000) would take... a year?

[FreeThinker]

On 12-7-2016 at 5:57 PM, sdrevik said:

Another new issue:  Transported a new module to add reactor and generator to my craft.   I can't right-click on the reactor to see/control anything, it's treated like it's not even there.   Every other component I can right click on.   When I try to start generator, it says there is no reactor, even though there is one glued right to it.   Modules are new (e.g., not out of fuel).    When I test the craft on the pad, same thing, but when I make another craft with just the reactor and generator and radiators, it works fine.

Good point. Understand that Reactor and generator normally need to be connected directly, except when using non andrologius docking connector. Unfortunatly this connecter no longer functional after 1.0, so I will make it avialblable for all dockking connectors. Allowing you to construct more modular as  you attempted.

Edited July 15, 2016 by FreeThinker

[sdrevik]

4 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Good point. Understand that Reactor and generator normally need to be connected directly, except when using non andrologius docking connector. Unfortunatly this connecter no longer functional after 1.0, so I will make it avialblable for all dockking connectors. Allowing you to construct more modular as  you attempted.

Reactor and generator are connected directly.  The docking connector is between the generator and the fuel tank.  The arrangement is (front to back):
Front docking--RGU--Reactor--Generator---dock--dock--LH2 tank---LH2 tank---DT Vista

Not a huge deal, I ditched it and replaced it with a new fusion front end, just a bug, it seemed.