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[1.12.x] The Maritime Pack v0.1.19

Fengist

By Fengist
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The Engineer

The Engineer

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On July 17, 2016 at 1:38 AM, Fengist said:

Yep, if the guys testing the catapult come back with decent reports, the CVL, arresting gear, tailhook, both catapults and the catapult 'shuttle' will be in the next release.  After that, I plan on doing a bit of work on a few 'nautical' aviation parts, then over to the sub to add a few goodies to that and then... I think I'm going sailing.

 

Definitely looking forward to that, hope all goes to plan:D

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PDelta41

PDelta41

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More testing confirms that the center of balance is critical for a straight launch. Loading winches onto the otherwise stable seagull resulted in some nasty pitching. Also, how does one reload the catapult? (Bill and Jeb want to know...)

Also, what are the plans for implementing rotation for these? They don't play nice with Infernal Robotics parts. 

(the one with orange wings is modelled after an SOC Seagull, and the monoplanes are are attempts at a SC-1 Seahawk)

 

Edited by PDelta41
Additional question, airplane kit
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Fengist

Fengist

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On 7/17/2016 at 2:55 AM, BT Industries said:

Wow in a couple of weeks you have done what I always wanted!!!

I say the mod goes back to you no questions asked as you are much more skilled ( I am merely a .CFG Hacker)

All I wanted was to have a playable version and now that your back I don't need to continue working on this.

The community came up with many great ideas on my thread which you are way more qualified to implement.

Thanks again @Fengist

Honestly, thank you for keeping it alive. I'm glad you're happy with the results. I was afraid you'd be offended at me jumping back in the captains chair and shoving all these updates out the door.  A lot of the things coming out now are parts and pieces I had worked on in the past.  The tug was a very early model, I just never could get the Klaw to work right. I just needed to end these e-mails begging me to return and the subsequent voices in my head speaking in C# every time I got one of those e-mails.  I've looked over most of the ideas and some I may actually get around to.  Thanks BT!

On 7/17/2016 at 1:29 PM, PDelta41 said:

Those are exactly the floats I was looking for. And yeah, the PBY idea was totally said in a wistful manner. It would take complexity of parts similar to Nazari's shuttles, I imagine, with specialized air frame and hull parts, and they'd be pretty useless for anything else. 

Further tests with the catapult have shown good results, with consistent (if overpowered launching).

A new issue has cropped up with a new plane: if the root part is above or below the center of mass, the craft is given a nasty downward or upward (respectively) pitch. Right now I'm trying to figure out if I can sidestep that, so my craft isn't sent headlong into the runway or flipped like a coin. But definitely a thorny issue, and re-rooting to a docking port seems not to work at all. 

Also, saving as a subassembly isn't working, unless I re-root to the shuttle (which caused the coin-like backflipping mentioned earlier). 

I tinkered with the float models today and have something sorta decent.  Now to figure out how to attach them to aircraft.

I can fix that!

Coming up, tweakable catapult power. but I warn you. It's set at the default 100.  If you crank it up to the max 200... you'll be scraping Kerbals off the deck.  But, since everyone loves a train wreck...

Ok, here's what I can tell you.  The COM is the critial point.  The root part isn't even looked at.  So, if your COM and COL aren't on centerline, there's a good chance you'll have a pancake.

I have a couple set up as assemblies and they do work but the easiest one, I built the plane first then built the ship under it.

On 7/18/2016 at 6:38 AM, The Engineer said:

Definitely looking forward to that, hope all goes to plan:D

Well, the folding wings idea may be taken off the shelf but as for the other things... keep reading.

 

On 7/18/2016 at 6:42 AM, PDelta41 said:

More testing confirms that the center of balance is critical for a straight launch. Loading winches onto the otherwise stable seagull resulted in some nasty pitching. Also, how does one reload the catapult? (Bill and Jeb want to know...)

Also, what are the plans for implementing rotation for these? They don't play nice with Infernal Robotics parts. 

(the one with orange wings is modelled after an SOC Seagull, and the monoplanes are are attempts at a SC-1 Seahawk)

Yep, the center of mass and the shuttle need to be lined up with the COM above the shuttle.

Reloading?  Ummm... I dunno. I just pitch things.  I can tell you many months ago I tested container ships and using KAS to load and stack containers using docking ports.  It... umm... well it's not pretty. Docking ports were never meant to connect on the ground... and even less so when the two ports are vertical.

I did some testing with IR and the problem I found was wobble.  I use the docking washers for most everything and sitting the catapult on it caused it to be overweight and therefore pitched backwards.  To fix this, I've created some counterweights in 1, 5 and 10 ton increments that you can stick onto the front of the catapult to help balance things out.  You just have to remember that once you launch, it'll be nose heavy.

I also made some progress on another issue, aircraft tipping over once they're undocked.  I've added some duct tape to the sides of the catapult where the shuttle docks to it.  Let me know how this works out.

And now, for the big news.

CVL ALPHA TESTING!

Now in the same package as the C2 Catapult alpha test, you get the CVL alpha.  Included in this package is the following:

  • CVL hull parts (fore, mid and aft)
  • CVL Bridge (No, EVA is NOT working from the bridge, I gotta fix that)
  • C1 flush deck catapult (Works just like the C2 but without the shuttle.  Get close, set your brakes, throttle to 0 and hit the Tab Key)
  • Arresting gear (Right click the arresting gear to activate KLOLS!)
  • Tailhook (It has a collision mesh, make sure you don't drag the ground while landing)
  • C2 Catapult
  • C2 Catapult shuttle
  • C2 Catapult counterweights

Some things to take note of:

  • The CVL is a catamaran!  If you don't know how to build one correctly, please watch the video in the second post in this thread.  I don't expect to hear ANY complaints about wobbly boats.
  • In order for the arresting gear to work, you MUST have a tailhook and it MUST be deployed to some degree.  Otherwise, you're considered a landlubber and will be promptly ignored.
  • The arresting gear works only when you're within range. And it doesn't care if that range is on or above the flight deck.  Make sure you have your wheels on the deck or you're likely to get turned into a pancake.
  • You can turn the KLOLS on (right click the arresting gear) and it will stay on even when you switch to your aircraft.
  • KLOLS currently has a maximum range of 4km.  Since stock visible range is 2.5km, you should see it when you're close enough for KSP to load the carrier.
  • In the video you may have noticed I used 3 arresting gear.  They will all work in tandem to stop your aircraft.  I honestly haven't tested it with just one, but it should work just as well.  The 3 give a bit more 'range' to the arresting gear in determining when it stops the aircraft.
  • The arresting gear will deactivate once your aircraft has either landed or gone into the drink .  To reactivate it, you'll need to fly at least 500m away from the carrier. 
  • The amount of braking power applied to the aircraft is based on it's speed.  I've successfully tested it at speeds from 40 - 85m/s.  It should stop you if you if you can manage to land at faster speeds.  Your minimum speed must be 10m/s
  • Warning: Landing any VTOL on the deck with the tail hook active will likely result in explosions.  The arresting gear expects you to be flying horizontally and will apply braking accordingly.  If you're landing vertically with the tailhook deployed, you'll likely get pitched off the aft end of the deck.

DELETE the Maritime Pack/CVL directory if you have the C2 catapult alpha installed!!!!

There was a minor directory name change and if you don't delete it, you'll end up with two C2 catapults. You have been warned.

DOWNLOAD the Maritime Pack CVL Alpha Test 
Downloads to date: Cattest.png

The purpose of an alpha phase is to give the developer feedback.  

If you don't plan to give feedback, please wait for the final release!

Edited by Fengist
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Fengist

Fengist

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28 minutes ago, V8jester said:

How in "Bob's name" did I not know about your catipult and arrester hook! I know what I'm doing when I get home! Nice work @Fengist

I dunno.  You follow this thread?  If not, I've already seen people cross posting the video of me testing the arresting gear to other places.

Speaking of testing:

94r6Ro8.png

LpwicWk.png

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V8jester

V8jester

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3 minutes ago, Fengist said:

I dunno.  You follow this thread?  If not, I've already seen people cross posting the video of me testing the arresting gear to other places.

Speaking of testing:

94r6Ro8.png

LpwicWk.png

I am now. Perfect timing too, I'm working on aircraft and carriers for my next video. Only problem is I'm still in 1.0.5 for all my serious stuff. I only have a 1.1.3 install around for kicks as so many of the mods I use (especially wheel related mods) aren't yet updated. No chance the catipult / arrester gear work in 1.0.5 hu? Eh if not it'll go in my 1.1.3 instal for sure.

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Fengist

Fengist

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Just now, V8jester said:

I am now. Perfect timing too, I'm working on aircraft and carriers for my next video. Only problem is I'm still in 1.0.5 for all my serious stuff. I only have a 1.1.3 install around for kicks as so many of the mods I use (especially wheel related mods) aren't yet updated. No chance the catipult / arrester gear work in 1.0.5 hu? Eh if not it'll go in my 1.1.3 instal for sure.

To be honest, I dunno if it will work in KSP pre-Unity 5.  I doubt it because the plugin was compiled with the latest .dll's which are Unity 5.  Worst that happens, it crashes your older KSP version and you have to delete it.  Let me know if it does.  If not, I have no immediate plans to recompile for previous versions.

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Fengist

Fengist

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It should be functional. I made the video in the OP with the latest release.  One thing that may cause problems, according to Squad, my animations are reversed.  You see Squad, for some reason, loves to start their animations in the VAB/SPH deployed.  Most of the rest of us don't.   So, try adjusting the slider for deployment limits and see if that works.

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Fengist

Fengist

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Ladies and gentlemen.

As of this post, there have been 72 downloads of the CVL Alpha in the past 6 days.

Thus far exactly ONE person has given feedback on alpha testing.

Am I to assume that this one individual is the ONLY person who's had issues with this alpha test?????  Have I become THAT good at modding?  If so, I'll just skip alpha and beta in the future and jump straight into release.

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strongest_2hu

strongest_2hu

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As requested:

I used the flush catapult, the tailhook, and the arresting gear.  Everything worked as described.  The catapult launch of my 10-ton test aircraft was consistent and smooth, I had no catapult-induced wrecks.  Even when I started doing silly things like activating the catapult with the gear up, resting on an intake, the catapult just sort of levitated me up a little bit and then launched me (not sure if that was intended or a consequence of the slight nose-up attitude it had).  I tried using "control from here" to get it to launch me in unexpected directions but failed; I finally figured out how to break it when I put my root part "backward" which resulted in the craft getting launched backward as expected.  The arresting gear worked well, I would blame all my accidents on me or the stock wheels.  I was landing at around 100 m/s and while I don't think one cable was enough to stop me I was using several so they always got the job done.  All in all, this is the best catapult/arrestor system I think we've ever had for KSP.  I also have two gripes:

Why does the throttle have to be at idle prior to catapult activation?  Some mod engines like AJE's turbojets take a very long time to spool up, I'm keeping my planes out of the ocean by cranking up the catapult power to 200 (works perfectly at 200, no issues there) but it would be nice to be able to launch at a more realistic throttle setting rather than gliding for eternity while the engine spools up.

Is there a reason the tailhook has a collision mesh?  Real tailhooks hang down lower than the main gear in a landing attitude, if you do that with this tailhook it will strike the deck first and, as a rigid collidable object, causes a violent pitch down and roll to one side or the other which ruins the landing.  I've been setting it to a narrow deployment angle so it can't contact the deck in my landing attitude, but the visual appearance of it being only slightly below the stowed position even while deployed kind of ruins it for me, especially because it's really just an aesthetic part.  I would prefer to see it have no collision so it clips into the surface on landing, at least then it would look correct while in the deployed position in-flight.

Keep it up.

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Fengist

Fengist

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2 hours ago, strongest_2hu said:

As requested:

I used the flush catapult, the tailhook, and the arresting gear.  Everything worked as described.  The catapult launch of my 10-ton test aircraft was consistent and smooth, I had no catapult-induced wrecks.  Even when I started doing silly things like activating the catapult with the gear up, resting on an intake, the catapult just sort of levitated me up a little bit and then launched me (not sure if that was intended or a consequence of the slight nose-up attitude it had).  I tried using "control from here" to get it to launch me in unexpected directions but failed; I finally figured out how to break it when I put my root part "backward" which resulted in the craft getting launched backward as expected.  The arresting gear worked well, I would blame all my accidents on me or the stock wheels.  I was landing at around 100 m/s and while I don't think one cable was enough to stop me I was using several so they always got the job done.  All in all, this is the best catapult/arrestor system I think we've ever had for KSP.  I also have two gripes:

 

Thank you!  Definitely good news!  Or at least better than expected.

2 hours ago, strongest_2hu said:

Why does the throttle have to be at idle prior to catapult activation?  Some mod engines like AJE's turbojets take a very long time to spool up, I'm keeping my planes out of the ocean by cranking up the catapult power to 200 (works perfectly at 200, no issues there) but it would be nice to be able to launch at a more realistic throttle setting rather than gliding for eternity while the engine spools up.

Yea, I suspected that would be a problem.  Here's my reasoning.  I'm fully cognizant of the fact that IRL, the jets about to launch crank their throttle up.  There's also a blast deflector that's raised behind them.  The advantages IRL has, any plane launching off the deck of a carrier has to be designed with that in mind.  My situation: I have NO idea what you guys are going to try to pitch off the deck of these carriers.  None.  God knows some of your are going to pitch rovers, rockets, other carriers... you name it.

In order to ensure that I'm not blamed for someone else not being able to get their aircraft off the deck, I needed to do two things.  1. Make sure that whatever they're trying to pitch off the deck has wheels.  Even if they're retracted.  At lest then I won't get blamed for bad coding because they ram their vessels into the deck.  And 2.  Zero throttle.  That way I know exactly how much thrust to apply to a vessel that's not moving in order to get it off the deck and I won't be blamed for parts getting ripped off because they wanted to launch a vessel with an albecurrie drive and it kept getting ripped off because of my catapult.

TLDR: If parts get ripped off, I want to make sure I know it's the catapult's fault and not some crazy engine configuration the user has.

2 hours ago, strongest_2hu said:

Is there a reason the tailhook has a collision mesh?  Real tailhooks hang down lower than the main gear in a landing attitude, if you do that with this tailhook it will strike the deck first and, as a rigid collidable object, causes a violent pitch down and roll to one side or the other which ruins the landing.  I've been setting it to a narrow deployment angle so it can't contact the deck in my landing attitude, but the visual appearance of it being only slightly below the stowed position even while deployed kind of ruins it for me, especially because it's really just an aesthetic part.  I would prefer to see it have no collision so it clips into the surface on landing, at least then it would look correct while in the deployed position in-flight.

Keep it up.

Another issue I knew would come up because I felt the same way.  Here's my reasoning:

As I mentioned, Infinite dice gave the the starting code.  He also passed over his arresting gear.  His is a bit different from mine in that it has a 'skid' plate with a very high tolerance to crashing.  I'm assuming thats should you wish to belly land.  His didn't have a mesh on the tailhook itself but his mount was about 10 times the size of mine.  It was easily the full length of a mk1 fuel tank.  To me, that was just huge.  I wanted something that looked a bit more realistic so I went with a smaller base, something easier to hide.  But then the problem is, if there's no collision mesh on the tailhook, you can't click on it.

TLDR:  I was in a catch 22. I knew the mesh would cause issues.  I wanted a small base that could be tucked under a landing gear and I wanted to be able to click on it.

Thanks for the report, hope those answers gave you an insight into my screwed up thought process...


 

Edited by Fengist
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BT Industries

BT Industries

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13 minutes ago, Fengist said:

My situation: I have NO idea what you guys are going to try to pitch off the deck of these carriers.  None.  God knows some of your are going to pitch rovers, rockets, other carriers... you name it
 

Yep... That is the beauty of KSP the only limit is you imagination (and yours/others modding skills(and your computer))

Thanks again for these amazing parts!!!

Is there anything against launching from a moving vessel???

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Fengist

Fengist

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2 minutes ago, BT Industries said:

Yep... That is the beauty of KSP the only limit is you imagination (and yours/others modding skills(and your computer))

Thanks again for these amazing parts!!!

Is there anything against launching from a moving vessel???

My pleasure... and trust me... you ain't seen nothing yet.

Nope, nothing to prevent a moving vessel either landing or for takeoff and, for the purists, that's the way it's done in reality. If you can switch vessels while moving, the cat and the arrestor won't care.

I may remove that restriction prior to release, but for now, I need a level playing field to see if these parts are going to work.

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freakneek

freakneek

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i am having some issues with the arrester system not working after leaving and reloading ksp.... ill share a you tube link when its finished up loading

EDIT; here is the link to my video.

 

Edited by freakneek
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Fengist

Fengist

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6 hours ago, freakneek said:

i am having some issues with the arrester system not working after leaving and reloading ksp.... ill share a you tube link when its finished up loading

 

Ok, I can see the system isn't even turned on.  So here's what I need you to do.  The next time this happens, go to the Maritime Pack/Plugins/PluginData directory.  There you should see a MPLog.dat file. Open it with something like notepad.  Copy and paste the contents to pastebin.com and then, post that link here.  That file gets reset each time you restart KSP so make sure you paste right after this happens.

Thanks.

 

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