Jump to content

Cannot Deploy While Stowed "Mechanic"

AlamoVampire

By AlamoVampire
in KSP1 Discussion

 Share

Recommended Posts

AlamoVampire

AlamoVampire

Posted
Posted

I would like to ask all of you on this forum something. Who here has been impacted by this "mechanic" that is supposed to "help" us? What I am specifically asking is this:

1. Have you been impacted by this so called mechanic?
2. How did it impact you? Positively? Negatively?
3. Can you share more on number two, namely specifics, screen shots are welcome if you have any.
 

For me, I have been impacted several ways and none of it was positive in the slightest. The nature of my experiences with this so called "helping hand mechanic" put missions in jeopardy. The first was when it refused to allow solar panels to deploy. They were the 1x6 SHIELDED solar panels affixed to the OUTSIDE of the shuttle as seen in the picture:

r4neWvG.png

As  you see above, that thing is CLEARLY on the OUTSIDE and it is "stowed" in its own box and should deploy normally as intended, but, this "helping hand mechanic" refuses to let it do so. Running out of power is a minimal risk sure, but, a risk that is exacerbated by this pointless mechanic. Next is a prime example of pure and pointlessly putting a vessel into jeopardy. The next 2 shots show that while attached to the launch clamps everything works, but, disengage them and fly up 30 feet and the vessel refuses to let the gear deploy.

BFmpEM9.png
On the pad? Sure, they work. Next: Launch and the game refuses:

rueNq5a.png
Stowed nose wheel eh? Ya, no KSP its not. I want to point out something very important. This shuttle was designed in KSP 1.0.4. Its seen here sans launcher for clarity of its ventral side and landing gear. The shuttle its self is UNALTERED beyond removal of Launcher and is EXACTLY as built pre-1.1.X. Also, between the first shot where you see its nose gear operating as one expects and where you see the game crabbing? 20 seconds.

When this mechanic first showed up, we all know how that went, suddenly doing faithful Soyuz style missions became a thing of the past as the game refused to let us hot stage and for what? No really good reason was given. Then they "fixed" it, but clearly did not, as now, its affecting things like solar panels <that one was back in December 2015> or communication dishes <other players> or in my case now, landing gear. I am sorry, but, having to open a cargo bay in ATMOSPHERE just to deploy the gear is unacceptable. It is beyond unsafe.

So, with that, I leave this here for all of you to chime in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
FizzerUK

FizzerUK

Posted
Posted (edited)

I am getting this ALOT..

Been searching an answer, there is a thread to post error into started by SQUAD. But it is for can not Activate

I have it on all devices (solar panels, aerials, dishes) on this ship.

0Hc106Q.png

Have a docked module on my refuling station that has all these errors also.

I am looking into a svaed game hack for this, if possible. Everything I am launching so far with fairings has the error.

Alot of these errors I am searching point at loading bays. BUT I have not used them yet, all my errors are when I use fairings.

Edited by FizzerUK
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AlamoVampire

AlamoVampire

Posted
  • Author
Posted

@klgraham1013 1.2.FOUR? are you some sort of space time traveler like who coached wesley crusher in STTNG? but, in seriousness, shouldnt it be 1.2.ZERO or something like that for the  next major update? But, ya, it needs to go. I just wish we could get a dev to reply here and tell us that its being taken away. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
klgraham1013

klgraham1013

Posted
Posted
Just now, AlamoVampire said:

@klgraham1013 1.2.FOUR? are you some sort of space time traveler like who coached wesley crusher in STTNG? but, in seriousness, shouldnt it be 1.2.ZERO or something like that for the  next major update? But, ya, it needs to go. I just wish we could get a dev to reply here and tell us that its being taken away. 

I bet my cat 5 pennies there would be 4 patches.  I can't back down now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AlamoVampire

AlamoVampire

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

@klgraham1013 lol. i just wish SOMEONE at squad @Claw or @KasperVld or @Arsonide or @NathanKell or @Porkjet or anyone else would just come out and say something on this. its not helping us, its hurting us to have this garbage in and they need to say something and not ignore it. clearly its not helping. clearly we are asking for it to be taken away. but all we get back, all ive gotten back is silence.

Edited by AlamoVampire
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Claw

Claw

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AlamoVampire said:

have this garbage in and they need to say something and not ignore it.

Well, we don't necessarily comment on everything we read. There are several threads and PMs flying around about this. I'm not sure what you want me to say, since there's already a mechanic in place to turn it all off. You just have to go in and do it. In fact, I thought someone already created an MM file to do just that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AlamoVampire

AlamoVampire

Posted
  • Author
Posted

@Arsonide Heres the thing, its a so called feature that one of the dev members put in for who knows why. I even pmd you at your request a stock parts ship for the experimentals team to use to see why anything attached to a cargo bay refuses to work after launching for 113. As its a Squad added feature no log can be supplied as sadly its the game doing what yall programed it to do.

to replicate, simple. Attach a part externally to a cargo bay. Launch. Try to deploy. Game will balk. When i get to my machine i will reupload the stock craft again

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AlamoVampire

AlamoVampire

Posted
  • Author
Posted

@Arsonide As per your request, here is the ALL STOCK parts shuttle displaying this behavior.

http://www.filedropper.com/landinggeartestshuttle

here are screen shots of it taken less than 5 minutes ago <as of this post>: 

PJI5RGG.png

I can upload my save if you really do need it, but, since I am not the only player being hit by yalls mechanic that may make for too much data <not a programmer so can only guess at that one>. BUT. here is a step by step on how to see what is in that picture:

1. Choose Landing Gear Test Shuttle and hit launch.

2. Attempt to deploy gear <action group, manual no difference honestly, both cause it>

Again, this is a symptom of the attempt to prevent players from hot staging or deploying things inside fairings or cargo bays. Far as I can tell based on my experience and that being reported by others and roughly confirmed by @Red Iron Crown I think it was in a different thread of course, that this is the check that you guys put in place having seriously negative side effects. I have my Goliath Class Ship that is seeing this as well, but, its a mod part ship. Can upload if needed along with what mods are required to use it. Let me know. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
swjr-swis

swjr-swis

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Claw said:

I'm not sure what you want me to say, since there's already a mechanic in place to turn it all off. You just have to go in and do it. In fact, I thought someone already created an MM file to do just that.

For ALL parts/modules that get deactivated on being 'stowed', not just engines? Where is this magical global setting I've been unable to find so far? And why is it not stock (an MM patch doth not stock make)? I did check both the Physics.cfg and the settings.cfg, but I don't see it.

 

Although I really want to be able to set this individually by part, at this point it has messed up so many times that I'd already be happy with just a general switch in the settings that allows me to turn it off entirely, for all parts and all conditions. I can then set it as soon as the update hits and then just blissfully forget about it forever and never look back. For the very few edge cases where I actually DO want a part to be inoperable when stowed, I can do it manually or use an action group, like we used to before.

The thing is, on top of it being unnecessary and constantly guessing wrong, it's also completely inconsistent. The game has absolutely NO problem whatsoever with me clipping an engine, antenna, panel/radiator, or science instrument entirely inside fully SOLID parts, and will happily deploy and/or activate anything right through or inside solids without protest... but when it's a HOLLOW part in which actual physics laws would pose no obstacle, suddenly it's a special case that has to be singled out and force-avoided even at the cost of constant false-positives, because... well, reasons.

So this mechanic teaches us the valuable lesson that the air and/or vacuum inside a closed bay/fairing is somehow so much more dense than solid metal or fuel that realism/physics/code requires it to be completely prohibitive of any parts suspended inside that hollow to work. But wait, there's more: to ensure we completely satisfy the Law of Conservation of Logic, when bay doors are opened even a micrometer, that same hyper-solid air/vacuum instantly phase-shifts out of existence and immediately allows activation, to instantaneously transform back into pure part-deactivating neutronium when the bay doors close again. Right. :confused:

 

I've been quite ok 'protecting' myself from allegedly risky, undue, or improper deployments and activations all these years (other than outright staging errors, but why does stowed have to be a special case for that?); I'm pretty sure I can keep myself protected going forward.

I have however zero recourse whenever the game stubbornly decides, sometimes mid-flight at complete random and in contrast with just a few seconds before or after, that a part is now suddenly to be considered 'stowed' or 'occluded' and thus inoperable, in 9 out of 10 cases when the aforementioned part was never placed inside a fairing or bay to begin with, is not currently inside one, and sometimes isn't even visibly touching one.

Just please give me the stock option to disable this... thing. For all parts. Please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AlamoVampire

AlamoVampire

Posted
  • Author
Posted

@Arsonide Its been about half a week since I posted that craft file. I hope it was helpful, I hope this "mechanic" or check or what ever anyone wants to call it will be stripped out by 1.2 or some non module manager, non hack way to by pass/over ride it is in place, as its affecting a bunch of us. Happy coding sir.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Arsonide

Arsonide

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

@Arsonide Its been about half a week since I posted that craft file. I hope it was helpful, I hope this "mechanic" or check or what ever anyone wants to call it will be stripped out by 1.2 or some non module manager, non hack way to by pass/over ride it is in place, as its affecting a bunch of us. Happy coding sir.

Another quick search of the public issue tracker shows that this issue has still not been properly reported. Doing so will ensure that the issue gets some visibility when the team is done with the optimization pass that we are currently working on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AlamoVampire

AlamoVampire

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

@Arsonide With all due respect, I do not feel this is suitable <as much as I would love to place it on the bug tracker, i have 0 clue how to use it, and there is 0 clarity on how to add things.> for the public issue tracker as this is a side effect of a "feature" or rather "mechanic" that was placed into KSP INTENTIONALLY by the dev team to prevent things like Hot Staging Soyuz style, or parachutes from opening in fairings. This is something at the very least, we the players have been griping about since at LEAST 13 December 2015 as posted initially by @GregroxMun to whit thread here: 

Again, with all the respect in the world, this is no bug, this is a mechanic that was again, intentionally placed into the game behaving in ways that are harmful and frankly not wanted. If someone who knows HOW to use that bug tracker wants, they can add it. 

Edited by AlamoVampire
Link to comment
Share on other sites
swjr-swis

swjr-swis

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Arsonide said:

Another quick search of the public issue tracker shows that this issue has still not been properly reported. Doing so will ensure that the issue gets some visibility when the team is done with the optimization pass that we are currently working on.

Can you elaborate on what you feel would be a 'proper' report? As in, what needs to be added/changed to the following to make them 'proper' enough to get the visibility we're being teased with:

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/4928

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/4955

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/5955

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/6022

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/6758

Also the result of a relatively quick search, by using the single words stowed/activate/bay/fairing/'occlu'. All of these include examples of a bay or fairing making other parts inoperable at unexpected or unwanted moments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...