Jaeleth Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Who agrees that the next upgrade should return rover wheels behaviour to prior to 1.1.x? 1.1.3 is excellent... But for the wheels... The new wheels simply do not work... Maybe keep the new suspension, suspension is fine. But friction and grip... Total disaster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brownhair2 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I was under the impression they had to rework the wheels when they switched to Unity whatever-number-it-was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket In My Pocket Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 9 minutes ago, Brownhair2 said: I was under the impression they had to rework the wheels when they switched to Unity whatever-number-it-was You are under the correct impression. There is no going back. 14 minutes ago, Jaeleth said: Who agrees that the next upgrade should return rover wheels behaviour to prior to 1.1.x? New wheels are fine, and they will only get better/less buggy with continued patching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaeleth Posted July 8, 2016 Author Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) Achhhhh... Friction can be dealt with by maxxing it out but there's this engine problems not having power to drag a truck uphill... Maybe increasing 10 fold the wheel engine power? Edited July 8, 2016 by Jaeleth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swjr-swis Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I voted no, because I like and want to keep the added options to tweak friction and suspension spring and damper (in fact, I wish those last two options were 'live' and not just in the editor - would be so helpful to level different parts of a landed base for docking/coupling). They just need to fix them to work right. And so the whole 'blocking' thing isn't necessary anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Disaster Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Read dev blogs, the wheel physics library is getting updated in 1.2 ( along with a move to a newer Unity, iirc ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gojira1000 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 This is not fixable until the unity upgrade occurs. This has been gone over in detail in the devnotes. As of the 1.2 engine upgrade we should see wheels work more like they used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wjolcz Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Nope. They are way better than they used to be. Just need some tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) If they could be scrapped, I would say yes. However I know they can not be scrapped while using Unity 5 and I know we aren't going backward. I agree they are absolutely terrible and I just want the wheels to behave more like they did in 1.0.5 so I can finally use a Unity 5 version of KSP. However, the only option is to look forward and hope Unity 5.4 fixes them adequately, and then try to forget 1.1 ever existed. Hopefully they remove the cheats with it as well. It makes no sense to be able to alter the laws of physics on a tweakable. Edited July 8, 2016 by Alshain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corona688 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 You just want definitive proof of who was using alt-f12, in the form of ragequits More options is a good thing. If you don't want to use it, don't. As "suggestions" go, "make things less bad" isn't really a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Corona688 said: You just want definitive proof of who was using alt-f12, in the form of ragequits More options is a good thing. If you don't want to use it, don't. As "suggestions" go, "make things less bad" isn't really a suggestion. Well then it shouldn't appear until enabled by an alt-f12 option. Any persistence of the options should be removed if the alt-f12 option is disabled. If you are going to add cheats, be consistent about it. Edited July 8, 2016 by Alshain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corona688 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 You're welcome to your opinion, but I don't understand why you have it. Why do you even care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scientia1423 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 What are spring and damper on the wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Disaster Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Standard spring ( Hooke's law ) & damping equation coefficients, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Corona688 said: You're welcome to your opinion, but I don't understand why you have it. Why do you even care? Because it alters the laws of physics and goes against the gameplay. It's no different than Hack Gravity, and that is where it belongs. When you start sharing craft it becomes an issue if one person is using it and another is not, in one case the craft works just fine because it is altering the laws of physics and in the other case it no loner works. Then there is the Multiplayer functionality that we know is coming, if a server ends up configured to block cheats in the Alt-F12 menu that should include any ability to alter the way physics behave. It is best to correct this now, rather than allow it to continue and become the 'norm'. Really it should have never been put in the game to begin with. Edited July 8, 2016 by Alshain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corona688 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Alshain said: Because it alters the laws of physics and goes against the gameplay. "I don't play the game that way, therefore nobody should." You are entitled to your opinion, but you don't actually speak for us all. I dislike non-stock parts and excessive modding but nobody is actually forcing me to use these mods, so I don't have to care. For multiplayer, that's fair enough. The physics on the server would probably dominate in any case. Edited July 8, 2016 by Corona688 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Corona688 said: "I don't play the game that way, therefore nobody should." You are entitled to your opinion, but you don't actually speak for us all. I could say the same, and I will... You are welcome to your opinion, but you don't actually speak for all of us. This isn't a case of me wanting everyone to play the game like I do, it's a case of wanting the game to have a consistent rule set. Otherwise, why not just make HyperEdit a stock function? A game has to have a rule set to play by, even in single player, otherwise there is no point to it. If I can just alter physics, then I can do everything in the game in a matter of minutes and then KSP suffers from that. I can be at Jool in the amount of time it takes to type in the HyperEdit window, but then it isn't really much of a game. All I am saying is the cheats belong behind the cheat menu. They don't have to remove them, just put them where they belong. That's why the cheat menu is there. (Note: I'm using the word "Cheat" because that is what the menu is called, this isn't a debate over cheating) Edited July 8, 2016 by Alshain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corona688 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 I speak for nobody but myself when I say, I see no reason to care how other people play their single-player sandbox games. When I ask you why it matters, you tell me why it matters to you, why you wouldn't use it. This is not a convincing reason to remove everyone's ability to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, Corona688 said: I speak for nobody but myself when I say, I see no reason to care how other people play their single-player sandbox games. When I ask you why it matters, you tell me why it matters to you, why you wouldn't use it. This is not a convincing reason to remove everyone's ability to use it. " I speak for nobody but myself" "why it matters to you, why you wouldn't use it. This is not a convincing reason" So what you are saying is it's ok for you to speak for yourself but not ok for me to speak for myself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corona688 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 No. I suggest reading what I actually said, and considering the difference between what we're suggesting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Corona688 said: No. I suggest reading what I actually said, and considering the difference between what we're suggesting here. What you actually said was that you have the right to express your opinion, but if I express mine, you feel the need to clarify that my opinion is an opinion. So either you feel I am not entitled to my opinion or for some reason you feel that no one else of the forums can discern what is an opinion and it must be called out (even though nobody actually called out your opinion as such). You also assume that everyone on the forum agrees with your opinion because you said "but you don't actually speak for us all." So why exactly do you suppose it is that you are somehow superior in this regard? The truth is, you disagreed with my opinion so you tried to dismiss it as an opinion, even though every post in this thread is an opinion and there is nothing wrong with opinions. Edited July 8, 2016 by Alshain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corona688 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) You're reading too much into it. I simply think you're wrong. In a single-player sandbox game, gameplay is what you make of it. I am not preventing you from expressing yourself by disagreeing with you. How could I possibly do that? I also think removing that feature would mean imposing your view of gameplay onto people who don't always share it. Right now, you get what you want and they get what they want. Why does it bother you that what they want isn't what you want? Edited July 8, 2016 by Corona688 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Corona688 said: You're reading too much into it. I simply think you're wrong. In a single-player sandbox game, gameplay is what you make of it. I also think removing that feature would mean imposing your view of gameplay onto people who don't always share it. Right now, you get what you want and they get what they want. Why does it bother you that what they want isn't what you want? But that's what I'm telling you, it's not imposing my way of gameplay, it's imposing a 'physical world' gameplay that KSP was designed to be. Being able to wave your magic wand and alter the friction of a particular set of tires is not something physically possible in a real world scenario. It's magic, and KSP is supposed to be science, not magic. I can't alter the friction on my cars tires. I can alter the spring and damper by inserting spring rubbers and tightening the suspension, those aren't the issue here. Without replacing the wheels I can not alter their friction. But now Squad has added a way to alter the friction of the same set of wheels to be several different settings. More over, it's too fluid, even if it were simply changing the tires, there are set standards of rubber compositions and tread to choose from, you can't just turn a slider from 0 to 1 and go. This goes against the design of KSP, in a rather major way, it's no different from the Hack Gravity option that allows you to completely ignore the physical laws of gravity. Edited July 8, 2016 by Alshain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rocketeer Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 @Alshain what 'cheats' are u referring to exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said: @Alshain what 'cheats' are u referring to exactly? The friction control. That is the main one that I know of. I haven't spent a lot of time playing 1.1, but being able to alter the friction is being able to alter the physics which is fine that you can do that, but it should be something you do in Alt-F12 or in the physics config file by modding. It was only added as a stop gap measure because the wheels are so awful anyway. When the wheels are fixed it should be isolated or removed out of the main gameplay. Edited July 8, 2016 by Alshain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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