Simple Plane Design - Help

[bewing]

10 minutes ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

This seems to happen everytime I attach a landing gear to an aerodynamic part.

Is there any way to verify that a game downloaded properly on an XBone? The behavior you are describing with wheels is supposed to only happen under very particular circumstances (excessive clipping).

Can you please open the context menu of one of the wheels? At the top it will say "Wheel Blocked: Yes/No". If it always says "Yes" -- then that would explain what you are seeing, but the fact that it says yes is a big bug.

-- And you say this only happens with aerodynamic parts? What happens if you attach the rear wheels to the fuselage before you attach the wings?

Edited July 19, 2016 by bewing

[Arch3rAc3]

Just now, bewing said:

Is there any way to verify that a game downloaded properly on an XBone? The behavior you are describing with wheels is supposed to only happen under very particular circumstances (excessive clipping).

Can you please open the context menu of one of the wheels? At the top it will say "Wheel Blocked: Yes/No". If it always says "Yes" -- then that would explain what you are seeing, but the fact that it says yes is a big bug.

It doesn't say anything, like, there's not even a Wheel Blocked text. But the Wheel Stress bar keeps jumping up to 10 or 5 and if the wheel was hitting the ground (although it is in a way). 

 

-With the fuselage it seems to work properly (it doesn't keep jumping around) - Although the problem is still present when I connect the landing gear to a girder strut .

Edited July 19, 2016 by Arch3rAc3

[bewing]

OK, time to be really really clear here: Please check this context menu and match it to yours. You say the "Gear Blocked" text is completely missing?

 

And with the wheels connected to the fuselage, can you take off (carefully, from the grass, SAS *on*) and fly?

Edited July 19, 2016 by bewing

[Arch3rAc3]

Just now, bewing said:

OK, time to be really really clear here: Please check this context menu and match it to yours. You say the "Gear Blocked" text is completely missing?

 

And with the wheels connected to the fuselage, can you take off (carefully, from the grass, SAS *on*) and fly?

Aye. Completely missing. With the wheels connected to the fuselage they seem to work, though every plane I made can barely go past 20m/s on the grass, it slows the craft down too much, I can't even reach takeoff speed.

By the way, I've just made a plane that flies . Although it was supposed to have a rocket-assisted launch, which came to fail when the rocket itself hit the ground and went boom, I manage to takeoff with the rest of the plane from the runway somehow. It was being pretty stable in the air until I tested how well it would get out of a stall (it never did )

 

Edited July 19, 2016 by Arch3rAc3

[bewing]

Well, there are definitely several bugs there, then -- that all need to be reported. The Gear Blocked thing is very important. And the grass is not supposed to have any more friction/drag than the runway.

You should easily be able to accelerate to 100 m/s on both surfaces. Just so long as you have your brakes turned off?

 

[Arch3rAc3]

Over grass, brakes off, full throttle, not enough acceleration. I'm wondering if I should start a thread listing all the bugs I've found so far (it will be quite a list I believe).

[bewing]

You definitely should, here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/forum/81-technical-support-playstation-4-xbox-one/

But the stunning thing is that the game is supposed to be basically identical across all platforms ..... and it's not! That's going to make life a lot harder for people trying to give out help.

BTW -- on your main start screen, does it give a version number of the game? I'd just like to know what it is for myself.

 

Edited July 19, 2016 by bewing

[Arch3rAc3]

Just now, bewing said:

You definitely should, here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/forum/81-technical-support-playstation-4-xbox-one/

But the stunning thing is that the game is supposed to be basically identical across all platforms ..... and it's not! That's going to make life a lot harder for people trying to give out help.

BTW -- on your main start screen, does it give a version number of the game? I'd just like to know what it is for myself.

 

Aye. Version: v1.1.0.1157

[bewing]

Oh crap .... They are 3 months behind on the console version software? No wonder it's got issues ..... Current version on PC is 1.1.3, and has had a lot of bugfixing since 1.1.0 ..... Hmmmmm.

[Arch3rAc3]

Just now, bewing said:

Oh crap .... They are 3 months behind on the console version software? No wonder it's got issues ..... Current version on PC is 1.1.3, and has had a lot of bugfixing since 1.1.0 ..... Hmmmmm.

Best PC to Console porting ever! xD

[bewing]

1 hour ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

Best PC to Console porting ever! xD

Heh! One thing I'm certain of -- you'll get upgraded to ver 1.1.3 very soon, and it will be a big upgrade in playability.

[Snark]

On 7/18/2016 at 3:41 PM, Ferrius said:

Make sure you have S.A.S. turned on, and check if the center of mass and the center of lift are close during the construction phase.

<tutorial graphic by Keptin>

Just wanted to note, for anyone reading this:

That tutorial graphic by Keptin is awesome, but it's also very badly out of date.  It pre-dates the new aerodynamics that came with 1.0.  Everything in there was great advice before 1.0, and much of it still is, but not all of it.  So if you're reading through that, be aware.

The part that changed the most radically with 1.0 is drag, so just about everything in there that mentions drag is going to have some significant inaccuracy, or even be flat-out wrong in some places.

 

[Arch3rAc3]

Just now, Snark said:

Just wanted to note, for anyone reading this:

That tutorial graphic by Keptin is awesome, but it's also very badly out of date.  It pre-dates the new aerodynamics that came with 1.0.  Everything in there was great advice before 1.0, and much of it still is, but not all of it.  So if you're reading through that, be aware.

The part that changed the most radically with 1.0 is drag, so just about everything in there that mentions drag is going to have some significant inaccuracy, or even be flat-out wrong in some places.

 

Yup. Although it mentions FAR and says that KSP didn't simulate Drag at the time. So he explains it based with FAR. How are current aerodynamics compared to it? Does FAR still makes a huge difference?

Edited July 20, 2016 by Arch3rAc3

[Snark]

25 minutes ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

Yup. Although it mentions FAR and says that KSP didn't simulate Drag at the time. So he explains it based with FAR. How are current aerodynamics compared to it? Does FAR still makes a huge difference?

FAR is still considerably more sophisticated than stock.  However, stock has come a long way, and for purposes of that tutorial, most of what he says about FAR is reasonably accurate for 1.0 aero.

For example, nosecones do make a difference in stock, now.

[Arch3rAc3]

42 minutes ago, bewing said:

Well, there are definitely several bugs there, then -- that all need to be reported. The Gear Blocked thing is very important. And the grass is not supposed to have any more friction/drag than the runway.

You should easily be able to accelerate to 100 m/s on both surfaces. Just so long as you have your brakes turned off?

 

Hey, I've been trying to takeoff from the grass with a better experimental engine, and it seems to work.
It's just weird that with the smaller engines, even with two of them, I don't have enough thrust to make it go fast enough to takeoff.

[Arch3rAc3]

I've made another plane and upgraded the runway. Everything was going well until the BLOODY RUNWAY EXPLODED.

There's something very wrong with the physics. Seems like the wheels are always somehow stuck into the ground. The Landing Gear stress keeps jumping to 10 when I'm rolling on the runway, and when I try pitching up it just goes up even more (causing the gear to *poof* or the runway to explode at the most extreme scenarios).

I don't even know how to report this since it's quite hard to tell how can one replicate it. It just feels like there's something very glitchy in the game.

[bewing]

30 minutes ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

I've made another plane and upgraded the runway. Everything was going well until the BLOODY RUNWAY EXPLODED.

There's something very wrong with the physics. Seems like the wheels are always somehow stuck into the ground. The Landing Gear stress keeps jumping to 10 when I'm rolling on the runway, and when I try pitching up it just goes up even more (causing the gear to *poof* or the runway to explode at the most extreme scenarios).

I don't even know how to report this since it's quite hard to tell how can one replicate it. It just feels like there's something very glitchy in the game.

Ummmmm, sorry to tell you this -- we definitely saw the exploding runway problem, and the wheel stress problem, and the wheels stuck into the ground problem, and the landing gear going *poof* problem ...... waaaaaay back in the olden days, in April, when we were dealing version 1.1.0. But all that's been fixed now.  For us. Version 1.1.0 makes a good practice area to play around in, until you get upgraded to 1.1.3 where lots and lots of things work much better.

Honestly, I'm going to suggest that you put this career game on hold. Start a new sandbox game. Try out all the hardware and other goodies. Fly some planes around to get a feel for the aerodynamics. Try getting a rocket into orbit as efficiently as possible. To the Mun as efficiently as possible. Try out direct launches and gravity turns and compare them to each other. But don't torture yourself anymore by beating your head against version 1.1.0's bugs. It will just be frustrating and non-productive. I'm sure it will only be a matter of days until you have a 1.1.3 upgrade. The software is modular, and it's only the UI frontend that had to change to support consoles. So Squad can drop in the upgraded physics pretty fast. And I am absolutely shocked that they haven't done it yet.

You may want to look at this:

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/projects/prerelease/issues?utf8=✓&set_filter=1&f[]=status_id&op[status_id]=*&f[]=&c[]=tracker&c[]=votes_value&c[]=priority&c[]=status&c[]=cf_7&c[]=subject&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=updated_on&c[]=done_ratio&c[]=fixed_version&group_by=

This was the special bugtracker used during beta testing for version 1.1.0. A few of these issues got fixed before 1.1.0 was actually released. But you see all the ones that say "closed" or "resolved"? Those are bugs that have been fixed in 1.1.3, that you would probably run into if you really tried looking hard for them.

 

Edited July 20, 2016 by bewing

[Arch3rAc3]

33 minutes ago, bewing said:

Ummmmm, sorry to tell you this -- we definitely saw the exploding runway problem, and the wheel stress problem, and the wheels stuck into the ground problem, and the landing gear going *poof* problem ...... waaaaaay back in the olden days, in April, when we were dealing version 1.1.0. But all that's been fixed now.  For us. Version 1.1.0 makes a good practice area to play around in, until you get upgraded to 1.1.3 where lots and lots of things work much better.

Honestly, I'm going to suggest that you put this career game on hold. Start a new sandbox game. Try out all the hardware and other goodies. Fly some planes around to get a feel for the aerodynamics. Try getting a rocket into orbit as efficiently as possible. To the Mun as efficiently as possible. Try out direct launches and gravity turns and compare them to each other. But don't torture yourself anymore by beating your head against version 1.1.0's bugs. It will just be frustrating and non-productive. I'm sure it will only be a matter of days until you have a 1.1.3 upgrade. The software is modular, and it's only the UI frontend that had to change to support consoles. So Squad can drop in the upgraded physics pretty fast. And I am absolutely shocked that they haven't done it yet.

You may want to look at this:

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/projects/prerelease/issues?utf8=✓&set_filter=1&f[]=status_id&op[status_id]=*&f[]=&c[]=tracker&c[]=votes_value&c[]=priority&c[]=status&c[]=cf_7&c[]=subject&c[]=assigned_to&c[]=updated_on&c[]=done_ratio&c[]=fixed_version&group_by=

This was the special bugtracker used during beta testing for version 1.1.0. A few of these issues got fixed before 1.1.0 was actually released. But you see all the ones that say "closed" or "resolved"? Those are bugs that have been fixed in 1.1.3, that you would probably run into if you really tried looking hard for them.

 

OK. My phone went mad slow, I might have clicked on a lot of buttons and it seems like I deleted or upvoted your last reply or something making it disappear for me xD.

Anyway. No worries. I'll reply from I read from the E-mail notification I got. My reply:

Thanks. It's somehow comfortable to know that many of these issues already existed and were able to be fixed. I may give up of this until it's fixed and will do as you said. I been missing fun for +two days and been having headache instead. Not sure how I didn't rage quit from this game yet xD.

Btw, I don't believe we can disable collisions on the Xbox version. I don't think we have that "cheat" console here unfortunately (it was pretty useful back on PC :/ )

Edited July 20, 2016 by Arch3rAc3

[danowat]

Just wanted to add, I am also on the XBO version, and I am building planes, and they just immediately explode on the runway too.

[Zophos]

In the hopes that this will help the console crowd, I'll show the early-career tail-dragger biplane I put together for a Redditor yesterday. Nothing above the 45-science tier, no tweaks to anything except control surfaces, and it takes off from the grass with no control inputs other than starting the engines (at least in 1.1.3 on the PC).  It can also hit 20km altitude (once) to complete survey contracts. Some construction notes in the album:

And the takeoff roll (EDIT: on grass, to avoid using the hilariously bad starting runway). The only control inputs come from SAS (which keeps the nose up).

 

Edited July 20, 2016 by Zophos
Noted takeoff roll was on grass, and why

[Arch3rAc3]

Just now, Zophos said:

In the hopes that this will help the console crowd, I'll show the early-career tail-dragger biplane I put together for a Redditor yesterday. Nothing above the 45-science tier, no tweaks to anything except control surfaces, and it takes off from the grass with no control inputs other than starting the engines (at least in 1.1.3 on the PC).  It can also hit 20km altitude (once) to complete survey contracts. Some construction notes in the album:

And the takeoff roll (EDIT: on grass, to avoid using the hilariously bad starting runway). The only control inputs come from SAS (which keeps the nose up).

 

Thank you, but still, the steerable landing gear gets stuck into the ground and the side static landing gears get clipped into the ground and start jumping in place more than they should.

But thanks for the design as well, as soon as the console version gets fixed (if it gets fixed...) I'll be sure to try out this craft

[kBob]

If it's just the steerable landing gear getting stuck don't use it.  If you have a reaction wheel the plane can taxi quite well with just the fixed gear.  With the caveat that I don't know what is true on the console versions especially since they are using an older version of KSP.

But the grass drag problem is strange, does that happen when you build a rover?  A stable rover going straight with a juno engine should be able to get well over 20m/s (turning may flip it unless you use a wide wheel base).  And again you don't need the steerable gear with a rover if you have a reaction wheel it will turn on the proverbial dime.

Edited July 21, 2016 by kBob

[Arch3rAc3]

Just now, kBob said:

If it's just the steerable landing gear getting stuck don't use it.  If you have a reaction wheel the plane can taxi quite well with just the fixed gear.  With the caveat that I don't know what is true on the console versions especially since they are using an older version of KSP.

But the grass drag problem is strange, does that happen when you build a rover?  A stable rover going straight with a juno engine should be able to get well over 20m/s (turning may flip it unless you use a wide wheel base).  And again you don't need the steerable gear with a rover if you have a reaction wheel it will turn on the proverbial dime.

Rovers seem to work fine (if I can even say that what I built was a rover) as they don't have to reach takeoff speeds. And trying to control a plane on the ground at high speeds relying only on the control wheels makes it go crazy. Most of the times a small input whether will do nothing or will suddenly make the plane to swerve to one of the sides (they are too sensible or do nothing).

Edited July 21, 2016 by Arch3rAc3
Grammar correction

[kBob]

45 minutes ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

 And trying to control a plane on the ground at high speeds relying only on the control wheels makes it go crazy. Most of the times a small input whether will do nothing or will suddenly make the plane to swerve to one of the sides (they are too sensible or do nothing).

Did you try setting the wheel to SAS only? I had a similar problem as I recall, but setting it to SAS only, for whatever reason, seemed to fix it.  Otherwise maybe your controller is overly sensitive.  Try turning down the sensitivity in the KSP settings dialog (from the main menu assuming it's the same on Xbox).  Also if trying to taxi then slow is best the higher the speed the harder it is to taxi-- if it won't steer hit the brakes a bit then try.  At least on the PC I have no problem with the fixed gear--very easy to taxi I've even landed in water taxied over to an island and used the plane like a rover (while keeping under 20m/s) being able to steer fine to see the sights then taken off.

Rovers can easily reach take off speeds and should be able to.  I was just wondering if there was some problem with weight on the gear and rovers are usually a lot less mass.

 

Edit:

Are you saying you are trying to steer the plane while taking off?  You shouldn't be, planes aren't really meant to do that.  If your plane is not tracking straight ahead during take off something it wrong.  Check the wheel alignment and make sure it is really balanced.

Edited July 21, 2016 by kBob

[Arch3rAc3]

Just now, kBob said:

Did you try setting the wheel to SAS only? I had a similar problem as I recall, but setting it to SAS only, for whatever reason, seemed to fix it.  Otherwise maybe your controller is overly sensitive.  Try turning down the sensitivity in the KSP settings dialog (from the main menu assuming it's the same on Xbox).  Also if trying to taxi then slow is best the higher the speed the harder it is to taxi-- if it won't steer hit the brakes a bit then try.  At least on the PC I have no problem with the fixed gear--very easy to taxi I've even landed in water taxied over to an island and used the plane like a rover (while keeping under 20m/s) being able to steer fine to see the sights then taken off.

Rovers can easily reach take off speeds and should be able to.  I was just wondering if there was some problem with weight on the gear and rovers are usually a lot less mass.

 

Edit:

Are you saying you are trying to steer the plane while taking off?  You shouldn't be, planes aren't really meant to do that.  If your plane is not tracking straight ahead during take off something it wrong.  Check the wheel alignment and make sure it is really balanced.

Nope, didn't know I could set it to SAS Only, gonna try again later. I don't believe the sensitivity was a problem since I can see how much I'm turning by the indicators on the lower left of the screen, and what was happening is that there was like a limit I could turn without the craft doing anything (it would be like stuck going forwards), if I try turning a bit harder, past this point, it would swerve to one of the sides, making it impossible for me to correct it (might be, as you said, because I was trying to correct it's course while taking off, though everything is aligned and some of my planes just randomly start deviating to one of the sides).

I'll test again over the grass, but it seems like the wheel stuck is the problem, not the grass itself. Someone posted a picture on another older thread when PC still had this glitch. My front wheel is like this:

Although I believe this plane from the picture wasn't moving because the engine is pushing that horizontal stabilizer in the back, pushing the plane backwards while it tries to go forward as someone said on that same thread

Edited July 21, 2016 by Arch3rAc3