Constantly active science experiments and graphs

[Wjolcz]

I really don't like to deal with the way the science points and research works, but what's even worse is the science clickfest.

I propose redo the science instruments as graphs. They would gather data as long as they are active (turned ON). Here's a simple example:

Science - the amount of science points (obviously)
Time - as you travel/orbit around a planet the mission time passes and that's what it means (duh)
New biome - this is where you enter a new biome. It gives you a fixed amount of science (though I really wish it wouldn't) once you enter it and that's why it's represented as a spike on the graph (though I would really prefer if the science points were gone and were replaced with actual scientific data and/or reputaton. More on that in my sig).

Now you may say "But you can bind them to action groups!". Yeah, maybe I can, but that still makes me guess if I am in a low/high orbit of a body. And guessing is not helpful when you are on a fast and low Moho flyby. The science experiments need electricity when active anyway, so why don't make them gather data all the time instead? That would highly reduce the clickfest that has to be done when gathering science (especially when someone forgets to bind all the experiments to action groups, or the action groups are simply not yet available because it's an early career stage).

TL;DR science experiments eat EC when active anyway, so at least make them do something useful and more independent.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Veeltch
Added the second picture

[tater]

I agree. Something like scansat, really. From a gameplay standpoint, what matters is what orbit you put things into, right? So make that matter. Put your instrument in a polar orbit, and "get all the science," put it in an equatorial orbit, and you get a lot less of the science.

 

[Wjolcz]

Oh and by the way, graphs would unclutter the R&D's science section as each body would have it's own graph instead of tons and tons of separate messages. Maybe the spikes on the graphs could also be selected to read those witty messages that accompany the experiments performed.

Anyway, it would be easier and cleaner UI-wise to navigate sth like this.

[r4pt0r]

I agree about the clickfest. I use my "1" key as my SCIENCE! button, do them all at once easily. (edit: I somehow see I missed you already mentioned action groups, carry on)

I enjoy reading the fluff text for the various experiments, would your idea remove those?

Edited August 15, 2016 by r4pt0r

[Wjolcz]

1 hour ago, r4pt0r said:

I enjoy reading the fluff text for the various experiments, would your idea remove those?

Nope. I think they should be viewed when hovering over the "spike" bit on the graph. Let me MS Paint it real quick.

This is horrible, but hopefully you get the idea:

Edited August 15, 2016 by Veeltch

[r4pt0r]

I see. Would there be different spikes for each instrument so you can see the fluff for the temperature, seismic, pressure ect.?

Beyond the funny ones, they have scientifically interesting info. A sampling of Duna
-The sensor is able to record the effects of Ike as it orbits Duna.
-There appears to be a larger concentration of heavy isotopes in the atmosphere than on Kerbin.
-There does not appear to be significant seismic activity on the planet. It is possible that it is no longer geologically active.

How would Asteroid samples and surface samples be handled? Realistically they should not "spike up" your science graph until returned to Kerbin, reviewed in a lab or Transmitted.

I'm by no means critiquing, I just want the concept fleshed out more fully.





 

Edited August 15, 2016 by r4pt0r

[Wjolcz]

18 minutes ago, r4pt0r said:

I see. Would there be different spikes for each instrument so you can see the fluff for the temperature, seismic, pressure ect.?

Ideally, yes.

19 minutes ago, r4pt0r said:

How would Asteroid samples and surface samples be handled? Realistically they should not "spike up" your science graph until returned to Kerbin, reviewed in a lab or Transmitted.

Well, I think that's the problem with how the scientific experiments are currently handled. What I would love to see is actual scientific data, so if you for example had a surface sample there would be elements, isotopes and stuff like that all in one graph window looking something like this, I guess (I'm no geologist).

I tried to accomodate this concept to the current science gathering system, which IMO is bad, but it seems people like it and actual graphs would be a nice thing to have. I guess it's mainly a UI change, since it would unclutter the R&D science report part and would easily give a way to look into the results of past experiments around/on a body, thus enabling the player to not go all hectic when gathering science (like in the fast Moho flyby example).

[tater]

I've put craft into polar orbits for survey contracts, and sometimes those are pretty low orbits. It's pretty annoying to have to find the instrument on the spacecraft in the dark and click it within the few seconds allowed as I pass over the target area. It's not just a clickfest, it can be a frustrating, annoying clickfest. After being slow on 2 clicks once, meaning I had to come back in a  month to try again, I f12ed and just completed the contract, as I was in a highly inclined orbit that was always at the right altitude over all the survey locations, and was guaranteed to pass over them all.

[HafCoJoe]

Chiming in from Oregon on vacation, I want to put down my two cents in support of this as well  - It would be far more interesting to play career if it automated it like this. In the long run I think it would make the whole science system feel more coherent and more rewarding as well. - Also thinking further if science was shown in a bar graph, you could add little discrepancies in temperature or gravity around the poles/equator or per biome. They would be easily shown on a bar graph and in the long run would make collecting science feel like you're actually learning about the different attributes of sections of a planet, rather than information on the space near the planet . It would also make it more rewarding in the fact that you would have to do less and get more. - I think the probe core "AI" would be a fantastic reason to make science more automated and easier to manage.

EDIT: Also, hello @tater! I think I recall posting on your entry thread a while ago but I haven't heard from you much recently. In fact it appears as though you must be more obsessed with the forums than I am!  Congrats on breaking 2,000 likes not too long ago .

Edited August 15, 2016 by Avera9eJoe

[tater]

This could also be a mechanism to require astronauts.

Say a probe core can do certain survey contracts. Other contracts might have a wider survey area, but the contract might be worded such that it is to look for interesting features to photograph in a certain area (by taking a crew report). Those require kerbals, the other kind requires probes (mapping).

Ground surveys could be worded similarly. "Place an automated seismometer to do long term studies of Munar geology." That's to leave one on the surface. Taking specific readings could be done and returned to kerbin the usual way.

[Wjolcz]

On 15/08/2016 at 5:37 PM, tater said:

Ground surveys could be worded similarly. "Place an automated seismometer to do long term studies of Munar geology." That's to leave one on the surface. Taking specific readings could be done and returned to kerbin the usual way.

Yeah, I think long-term data gethering would be great to have. Not with the current system though, since it's kinda flawed and broken. It would probably feel punishing and boring to gather the science points over long periods of time.

in a system where experiments grant you meaningful rep points though...