How to fly a plane with the keyboard

[numerobis]

In Flight Simulator, the stick held pitch steady and sent yaw and roll to neutral. So when you hit the key to pull up, not much changed, you just gradually pulled up; when you rolled you'd roll to where you want to go, then stop rolling. Normally you didn't touch the stick much. It's pretty similar to how you fly actual small planes.

In KSP with SAS off, the stick goes to neutral for pitch, and when you pull up, you very quickly get to the max input. So you jerk wildly all over the place trying to pitch. This is not how planes normally fly.

With SAS on, it's relatively smooth (unless the PID configuration is wrong) but as soon as you touch any key, it throws all the other (automatic) controls to neutral, and after you let go it fights whatever you just did. So if I want to roll a degree leftwards to flatten out my wings, I roll left, pitch down, yaw back to center, then SAS kicks back in again and I roll right undoing what I just tried to do.

With prograde hold, it's better, but you can't walk away unless your plane is *precisely* balanced (which it isn't because it keeps changing mass).

Is there a trick I'm missing?

[Plusck]

Disclaimer: I'm not big into planes in KSP.

Whenever I've wanted to fly planes "properly" (i.e. without having them jerk around all over the place), I've ended up relying completely on the trim controls, with SAS off.
It takes a lot of patience and you really need to act far in advance of whatever you're doing (as nimble and daredevilly to fly as Solar Impulse, I would imagine) but it does work: just keep your finger on Alt the whole time.

[capi3101]

43 minutes ago, Plusck said:

Disclaimer: I'm not big into planes in KSP.

Whenever I've wanted to fly planes "properly" (i.e. without having them jerk around all over the place), I've ended up relying completely on the trim controls, with SAS off.
It takes a lot of patience and you really need to act far in advance of whatever you're doing (as nimble and daredevilly to fly as Solar Impulse, I would imagine) but it does work: just keep your finger on Alt the whole time.

Going to have to try that next time I try to fly...usually I just wind up fighting the damn plane the whole time I'm in the air.

Haven't got anything to suggest unfortunately, @numerobis. I have seen mods before that would replace the stock SAS control, but I could never figure out how to use them properly and ultimately just went back to stock.

[foamyesque]

The answer, such as it is, is to feather your controls. KSP aerodynamic control surfaces have a response time, so if you hit a control key and release it quickly they will not achieve anything close to their maximum deflection. You can therefore control how much you turn by varying the interval between the presses, how long you hold it, or both. It's not ideal but it does allow for smoother turns, particularly with SAS in stability assist mode.

[numerobis]

2 hours ago, foamyesque said:

The answer, such as it is, is to feather your controls. KSP aerodynamic control surfaces have a response time, so if you hit a control key and release it quickly they will not achieve anything close to their maximum deflection. You can therefore control how much you turn by varying the interval between the presses, how long you hold it, or both. It's not ideal but it does allow for smoother turns, particularly with SAS in stability assist mode.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "feathering".

The problem I'm having isn't that the control surfaces respond slowly, but rather that the pitch input always reverts to neutral.

Flying like @Plusck says -- exclusively with trim when I want to change the pitch -- seems to be the way to go; thanks! I wish trim combined better with SAS. I guess I should install MechJeb or something.

[numerobis]

A picture of my plane, which flew basically South from KSC down to a large island in the southern hemisphere (via a great-circle route that took me to just North of the south polar cap) off shore of which there were some observations to observe; then clear over the South pole to the other side for a second set of observations, after which I thought erroneously I'd be able to get to the desert on the continent just West of KSC. A total just over 5,000km.

Super stable, easy to fly, cheap. On SAS it can fly for 5-10 game minutes without input. What annoys me was that when I give that input, e.g. to level out the wings (never quite at zero roll, and on long distances, you start to see the slip), it would lose its pitch control and bob down. Similarly if I wanted to nudge the nose down just a tad, it bounces all over the place. I bet with better controls I'd have been able to land this flight at KSC.

[foamyesque]

7 hours ago, numerobis said:

@PlusckI'm not sure I understand what you mean by "feathering".

Rapidly tapping a control key instead of holding it down, to achieve an averaged deflection. If you're after holding a particular attitude for a long time, trim or SAS is a better route; if you're after manouvering smoothly, rapid pulsed input is how to do it.

[Hotel26]

Very topical as I have the problem that I have never gotten trim to make any discernible difference.  I'm on Linux expecting to use R-shift in combination with the usual control key.  The yaw/pitch/roll indicators do not move and the attitude doesn't change, even holding the key down to repeat.  The only thing I haven't done is gone in to Key Settings and verified the deal nor forced the issue.  I guess trim must work but unsure what's happening?  Looks like nothing.

[FullMetalMachinist]

7 hours ago, Hotel26 said:

Very topical as I have the problem that I have never gotten trim to make any discernible difference.  I'm on Linux expecting to use R-shift in combination with the usual control key.  The yaw/pitch/roll indicators do not move and the attitude doesn't change, even holding the key down to repeat.  The only thing I haven't done is gone in to Key Settings and verified the deal nor forced the issue.  I guess trim must work but unsure what's happening?  Looks like nothing.

Make sure that SAS is off when you try to use trim. It won't work with SAS on. 

[numerobis]

@foamyesque: oh yeah, that's how I always fly in KSP. But that's a very jerky flight -- and SAS still gives up on all axes while you're tapping.

If you did that IRL your plane would fall apart (eg the plane that crashed in Queens shortly after 9/11).

[Rocket In My Pocket]

You can:

1. Reduce the sensitivity of the controls in the options menu to give a slower and thus smoother response.
2. Turn "soft control mode" on by pressing the Caps Lock key.
3. Use a USB controller with an analog stick like an Xbox controller while flying.
4. Use a mod like Mouse Aim Flight;

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by Rocket In My Pocket

[foamyesque]

17 minutes ago, numerobis said:

@foamyesque: oh yeah, that's how I always fly in KSP. But that's a very jerky flight -- and SAS still gives up on all axes while you're tapping.

If you did that IRL your plane would fall apart (eg the plane that crashed in Queens shortly after 9/11).

I've found the control lag in the control surfaces smooths it out pretty well, TBH. Back when control surfaces responded instantaneously things were... more interesting.