Satellite Suicide Mission

[Wixit]

Hi folks, I recently accepted a mission to deploy a satellite into an equatorial Kerbin orbit. No problem, easy money, and I'll collect either way, but the orbital parameters are... unfortunate: before the satellite will perform a single orbit around Kerbin it will crash into Mun. In picture form:

The satellite in question is in the blue orbit which I'll extend into the red orbit and right around the required periapsis a Mun encounter will occur with terminal results. Now I realize rapid unplanned disassembly is the norm for Kerbals but it seems like such a waste of perfectly functional hardware to me. Does the game perform any checks to ensure orbits are stable or does it just hope for the best when the mission is generated?

[regex]

2 hours ago, Wixit said:

Does the game perform any checks to ensure orbits are stable

Not that I know of.

Think of the contract as an impactor experiment.

[SpacedCowboy]

Hi Wixit, welcome to the forums. You only have to meet the required parameters of the orbit for ten seconds. Do that, and then simply get out of the way!

[samstarman5]

I actually have zero problems with that sort of circumstance, as long as it isn't necessary to have the satellite for long term.  Once you meet all the parameters, and I have yet to see one that requires completing an orbit, the contract is complete.  Allowing the Mun to dispose of the satellite after?  That's frosting on the cake.  That sounds like an excuse to ride the satellite down and see the boom.

Once you hit a certain point in your career, satellites are quite cheap compared to your overall income, especially compared to what satellite deployment contracts pay.  It's a bit silly to worry about losing one satellite when you can follow up with another for maybe not even a tenth of what you got paid for the contracted one. Especially when you can piggy-back it with another mission.

That contract you got with its timing? That's a rarity you should not pass up in taking advantage of. You get some nice spending money and a chance to put a new crater on the Mun. That's a win-win in my book.

[magnemoe]

I have also got contracts who put an satellite into SOI of Mun after some orbits but never an impact trajectory. 
I also got an task to rescue an kerbal and his ship around Duna who would soon get into Ike SOI, luckily I had an ship on Ike who could handle this, however had I not had KIS and could put an docking port on the ship it would end up in solar orbit best case, 

As for this satelite, putting it into Mun orbit might be smart if it has fuel left, it can be used for science around mun contracts. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by magnemoe

[Wixit]

Had I known it was such a rarity I would have recorded the impact for you guys. I'll chalk this one up to Jeb's Junkyard needing a new garbage disposal location.

4 hours ago, WildLynx said:

Wait a little before boosting from LKO to intermediate orbit - the Mun will move out of the way.

Tried that, but it would have fallen into the SOI eventually anyway. I could have simply made the orbit slightly larger (the tolerance feels larger than it used to) but where's the fun in that?

3 hours ago, SpacedCowboy said:

Hi Wixit, welcome to the forums. You only have to meet the required parameters of the orbit for ten seconds. Do that, and then simply get out of the way!

Thanks. Yeah like I said I'll collect either way, but this was mostly a mechanics question; I'm guessing a rescue mission could be generated under similar circumstances and knowing this might happen to the poor sap in the heap will make me at least do a quick check for this scenario.

2 hours ago, samstarman5 said:

Once you hit a certain point in your career, satellites are quite cheap compared to your overall income, especially compared to what satellite deployment contracts pay.  It's a bit silly to worry about losing one satellite when you can follow up with another for maybe not even a tenth of what you got paid for the contracted one. Especially when you can piggy-back it with another mission.

As I'm too lazy to do rocket science to play a game I have both revert flight and quickload available, so money's not really an issue. A pre-launch planner would be nice though.

[SpacedCowboy]

Sorry, you said "satellite", that I assumed "unmanned"

When I do unmanned probe contracts (within the Kerbin SOI), I put chutes and shields on to return home and hope for the best! Get your money back as much as possible.

Why crash your ship into the Mun, not gaining any science, and not getting any return on parts?

[samstarman5]

1 minute ago, SpacedCowboy said:

Sorry, you said "satellite", that I assumed "unmanned"

When I do unmanned probe contracts (within the Kerbin SOI), I put chutes and shields on to return home and hope for the best! Get your money back as much as possible.

Why crash your ship into the Mun, not gaining any science, and not getting any return on parts?

Well, nobody's saying you can't land on the Mun, gain some science, and then return it.  For a satellite that isn't carrying anything like heavy kerballed modules, that wouldn't require much more fuel to accomplish.  And you would still get credit for the orbital satellite mission.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing more with a mission than just what the contract specifies.  I've taken advantage of tests that sent a craft into solar orbit by making it a fully functioning probe on the off chance I either manage a rendezvous with Eve or Duna, or just cross either's orbit for a future rendezvous. At the least, I can radio back the science and gain something off of that.

[Brainlord Mesomorph]

AFAIK most of those contracts only require that you maintain that orbit for 10 SECONDS.

13 hours ago, Wixit said:

Thanks. Yeah like I said I'll collect either way, but this was mostly a mechanics question; I'm guessing a rescue mission could be generated under similar circumstances and knowing this might happen to the poor sap in the heap will make me at least do a quick check for this scenario.

I had a rescue contract "In Kerbin Orbit" and within one orbit the Mun comes by and flings the poor guy interplanetary.

I actually got a ship to him in solar orbit! (a year later) he still not back yet.

[Wjolcz]

20 hours ago, Wixit said:

Does the game perform any checks to ensure orbits are stable or does it just hope for the best when the mission is generated?

It probably doesn't care. Oh, the things we do to get paid!

This just proves that contracts as they are now are pretty ridiculous, because of their randomness. Would be better to create your own instead of sitting in the Mission Control for hours and hoping for the best.

[Curveball Anders]

4 hours ago, Veeltch said:

Would be better to create your own instead of sitting in the Mission Control for hours and hoping for the best.

That'd called sandbox and vidid imagination

[Wjolcz]

3 minutes ago, Curveball Anders said:

That'd called sandbox and vidid imagination

That'd be called a proper career, not a quasi career mode that offers you random objectives all the time.

[Alshain]

I complained about this back when it was the Fine Print mod.  I got ignored.  It is very irritating if you need to move around to the other side of your orbit to tweak the position of the Ap or Pe to meet the contract requirements and end up hitting the Mun.  The only choice is to wait for the Mun to pass before completing the contract.  These contracts shouldn't give you orbits that intersect the path of a moon within range of it's SOI.  It could be easily fixed with an higher or lower inclination.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Alshain

[AlexisBV]

15 hours ago, SpacedCowboy said:

Why crash your ship into the Mun, not gaining any science, and not getting any return on parts?

... because it's fun?

[Curveball Anders]

14 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

That'd be called a proper career, not a quasi career mode that offers you random objectives all the time.

The problem is that it's hard to get more than 3 people to agree on what a "proper career" even is.

I have no issues combining the hints from the contracts in the game with the voices inside my head. But I'm afraid we all hear different voices.

If someone knew the commons answer it would have been the top downloaded mod, but so far we haven't seen anyone offering a working solution.

[magnemoe]

2 hours ago, Alshain said:

I complained about this back when it was the Fine Print mod.  I got ignored.  It is very irritating if you need to move around to the other side of your orbit to tweak the position of the Ap or Pe to meet the contract requirements and end up hitting the Mun.  The only choice is to wait for the Mun to pass before completing the contract.  These contracts shouldn't give you orbits that intersect the path of a moon within range of it's SOI.  It could be easily fixed with an higher or lower inclination.

I tend to do one burn to put satellite in position if in high orbit using adding an normal and often radial component on the burn. Yes its more expensive but I tend to have good margins here anyway. 

Else I agree satellites and recovery contracts should not have orbits who intercept moons. 

[Corona688]

8 hours ago, Veeltch said:

This just proves that contracts as they are now are pretty ridiculous, because of their randomness. Would be better to create your own instead of sitting in the Mission Control for hours and hoping for the best.

You can do both, contract missions and the missions you pay for yourself.  And a combination of those, accomplishing some contract goals while achieving your own goals.

[magnemoe]

5 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

You can do both, contract missions and the missions you pay for yourself.  And a combination of those, accomplishing some contract goals while achieving your own goals.

This is how I play, the paid missions pay for the space program, my own missions is the space program. 
The paid missions also set the schedule, I planned to Dress before Moho but got an explore and a mine contract on it so it was pushed forward, the contract paid for the base. 

[Curveball Anders]

13 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

This is how I play, the paid missions pay for the space program, my own missions is the space program.

This is how I do play too.

And the kerbonauts saved (often at least l1 when landed) are added to my program without me having to pay for them

 

[magnemoe]

29 minutes ago, Curveball Anders said:

This is how I do play too.

And the kerbonauts saved (often at least l1 when landed) are added to my program without me having to pay for them

 

Do not talk about it, Kerbals goes for 3 million credit. An large 13 kerbal base with mining, science lab and greenhouse cost around 250k in LKO. 
Only thing who is more expensive is the orion nuclar pulse engine powered motherships. They cost 7 million but tend to be crewed by 5 kerbals. 

At my stage to recover an kerbal is always an bargain, even an Eve surface rescue or an low solar orbit one. 
For an Kerbal in an large module on Eve surface I would probably rescue kerbal and destroy the pod after kerbal was home. 
Trying to pull something heavy out of Eve atmosphere would be too hard but the kerbal is too expensive to loose. 

 

[StrandedonEarth]

I took 2 contracts to rescue kerbals around Duna, but when I went to get them I could only find one. I eventually located the other in Kerbol orbit; he must have been flung out there by Ike. I should catch up to him soon, then it'll just be the question if I can get him home with my limited dV before the contract expires 

[Curveball Anders]

1 hour ago, StrandedonEarth said:

 then it'll just be the question if I can get him home with my limited dV before the contract expires 

My rescue contracts have several years on them once accepted. So I'd leave that one for a bit and do a special rescue for hir

 

[Stargate525]

11 hours ago, Alshain said:

I complained about this back when it was the Fine Print mod.  I got ignored.  It is very irritating if you need to move around to the other side of your orbit to tweak the position of the Ap or Pe to meet the contract requirements and end up hitting the Mun.  The only choice is to wait for the Mun to pass before completing the contract.  These contracts shouldn't give you orbits that intersect the path of a moon within range of it's SOI.  It could be easily fixed with an higher or lower inclination.

Small point of order; an inclination change will greatly reduce the chance of an SOI interaction, but not eliminate it. Unless they're in a perfectly resonant orbit, anything within a SOI-shaped shell around Kerbin will eventually succumb, as long as the orbit is inside the nominal SOI on the ecliptic.

[Alshain]

8 minutes ago, Stargate525 said:

Small point of order; an inclination change will greatly reduce the chance of an SOI interaction, but not eliminate it. Unless they're in a perfectly resonant orbit, anything within a SOI-shaped shell around Kerbin will eventually succumb, as long as the orbit is inside the nominal SOI on the ecliptic.

It depends on where you have the AN/DN are and the actual inclination, but an inclination change could completely eliminate chance of contact.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Alshain

[Stargate525]

21 hours ago, Alshain said:

It depends on where you have the AN/DN are and the actual inclination, but an inclination change could completely eliminate chance of contact.

Let me rephrase. If any part of the orbit intersects with anywhere the SOI can be, there is a chance of deflection. It becomes less likely, but it is still non-zero.