[1.12.x] TAC - Life Support v0.18.0 - Release 19th Sep 2021

[JPLRepo]

1 hour ago, KerikBalm said:

Sorry for my dumb post on an old thread last night, reposting it here (with correct version numbers... (1.3, not 1.1.3)

I updated KSP and TAC with 1.3, but I'm having a problem with one (maybe more) of my vessels that I launched in 1.2. I did briefly play on the save after KSP had updated to 1.3, but before updating TAC.

I've got a craft  with 2 gigantors and 1x large battery (4000 EC). Initially, it showed I had about a day's worth of EC. Then I spent some time focused on other vessels, and I was told that the craft ran out of EC.  I switched to it, and the EC meter begian to go back up, but it stoped at about 4 hours... this cycle happened again except it told me that it had 2 hours of EC.

I went into the save file and lastOxygen/Food/Water had identical values, but EC didn't. I gave it the same value as the other resources, and it showed I had over a day's worth of EC. It seems anytime I run out of EC, it starts to build up a deficit.

Why is the EC draining at all? I have 2 gigantors on the thing, and its not being blocked. Do you have any solution? is it supposed to act like this?

I may have to just turn off EC use, because I don't want to store a years supply of EC, and I don't want to check in on every vessel every day.

This is because TAC LS now drains EC for unloaded vessels (not the active vessel). But stock KSP does NOT produce EC for unloaded vessels.
You have two options:
1) Go into the difficulty settings menu at the KSC (hit esc, settings, difficulty settings button at the top) and then select TAC Life Support settings. Turn off background EC usage option.
2) Download and install the BackgroundProcessing mod (here is the link) which when installed WILL produce EC for unloaded vessels, and leave the TAC LS setting ON to consume EC for unloaded vessels.
I've updated the OP to reflect this as I had neglected to do so, which I think is creating a bit of confusion. sorry!

[SkyRender]

Not sure if this is intentional (probably not), but I keep finding that vessels using the smallest battery type don't count that battery's charge towards the life support of the vessel for electric charge in the tally.  So I have the rather absurd situation of a station with over 5000 stored EC that is claiming that I have only 2 hours of electricity left for the two Kerbals on board.

Edited June 4, 2017 by SkyRender

[Tommy59375]

10 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

... the BackgroundProcessing mod (here is the link) which when installed WILL produce EC for unloaded vessels ...

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask about the BackgroundProcessing mod but I'm really not sure where would be more appropriate...

If I install this, will it cause EC to be consumed for other things too?  Eg. Will Commnet relays start to lose EC when I transmit science through them, or will the science lab use EC when I'm not focused on the vessel?

Will BackgroundProccessing also allow other processes to occur e.g. resource gathering when not focused on the vessel, or is it only for EC consumption?

Thanks!

[KerikBalm]

11 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

1) Go into the difficulty settings menu at the KSC (hit esc, settings, difficulty settings button at the top) and then select TAC Life Support settings. Turn off background EC usage option.

I don't see a background EC usage option, only a "unloaded vessel processing" option

For the time being, I've just turned off EC use completely.

Spoiler

 

Edited June 4, 2017 by KerikBalm

[SkyRender]

So I've done a bit more research on this issue I'm having, and it seems it's not the problem I thought it was.  I launched a new vessel with around 800 overall EC on board (more than enough for the solitary Kerbal riding), only for the TACLS panel to unceremoniously inform me that he had around -2 days' worth of power left.  Something somewhere is off in the math, although it seems like the internal math for Kerbal survival is correct (at the very least, I haven't seen any Kerbals get offed due to this reading; it just keeps killing timewarp to incorrectly tell me that vessels are out of EC).

EDIT: Well now I have a save that can faithfully recreate the issue at will.  When the game loads, both Kerbal-carrying vessels report correct power levels.  Upon EVAing from either vessel, one or both vessels will erroneously report a massive deficit of power.  The problem seems tied to going on EVA.

Edited June 5, 2017 by SkyRender

[JPLRepo]

4 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I don't see a background EC usage option, only a "unloaded vessel processing" option

For the time being, I've just turned off EC use completely.

  Hide contents

 

Yeah sorry - it's the one that says 'unloaded vessel processing'

1 hour ago, SkyRender said:

So I've done a bit more research on this issue I'm having, and it seems it's not the problem I thought it was.  I launched a new vessel with around 800 overall EC on board (more than enough for the solitary Kerbal riding), only for the TACLS panel to unceremoniously inform me that he had around -2 days' worth of power left.  Something somewhere is off in the math, although it seems like the internal math for Kerbal survival is correct (at the very least, I haven't seen any Kerbals get offed due to this reading; it just keeps killing timewarp to incorrectly tell me that vessels are out of EC).

EDIT: Well now I have a save that can faithfully recreate the issue at will.  When the game loads, both Kerbal-carrying vessels report correct power levels.  Upon EVAing from either vessel, one or both vessels will erroneously report a massive deficit of power.  The problem seems tied to going on EVA.

Ok I'll have to take a look. Do you have a save file? Or it has lots of other mods installed?

[SkyRender]

It would be best to list off the mods installed first, as there's likely some synergy between mods going on that's causing this issue.  Particularly if it's not showing up on anyone else's save, which I suspect it's not given that it would have been mentioned by now!  The mods currently installed are:

Kerbal Engineer Redux 1.1.3.0
Kerbal Inventory System 1.5.0
Kerbal Attachment System 0.6.3
TAC Life Support 0.13.2
Kerbal Alarm Clock 3.8.5.0
Kerbal Planetary Base Systems 1.4.3
Environmental Visual Enhancements 1.2.2.1
Background Processing 0.4.5.0 (as provided in this thread)
Stock Visual Enhancements 1.2.3

There's no need to test all of those mods, however, for compatibility.  The problem exists between the first four mods on the list, as the problems began as soon as I installed TAC and after I'd installed the other three at the top.  I have done additional testing, incidentally ,and discovered that it's actually two issues.  The first one is the aforementioned EVA causing the game to go nuts and predict negative electric charge remaining on vessels.  The second one is that somehow it's calculating electricity usage based on the total Kerbal capacity of the vessel instead of the actual Kerbals on board.  So when I load the save, it's reporting 2h10m of power on a station with a 9-Kerbal capacity and 5110 Electric Charge which has a crew of 2 Kerbals on board.  Enabling and disabling power sources on board shows that each battery and capsule is contributing to the calculation.

[JPLRepo]

5 hours ago, SkyRender said:

It would be best to list off the mods installed first, as there's likely some synergy between mods going on that's causing this issue.  Particularly if it's not showing up on anyone else's save, which I suspect it's not given that it would have been mentioned by now!  The mods currently installed are:

Kerbal Engineer Redux 1.1.3.0
Kerbal Inventory System 1.5.0
Kerbal Attachment System 0.6.3
TAC Life Support 0.13.2
Kerbal Alarm Clock 3.8.5.0
Kerbal Planetary Base Systems 1.4.3
Environmental Visual Enhancements 1.2.2.1
Background Processing 0.4.5.0 (as provided in this thread)
Stock Visual Enhancements 1.2.3

There's no need to test all of those mods, however, for compatibility.  The problem exists between the first four mods on the list, as the problems began as soon as I installed TAC and after I'd installed the other three at the top.  I have done additional testing, incidentally ,and discovered that it's actually two issues.  The first one is the aforementioned EVA causing the game to go nuts and predict negative electric charge remaining on vessels.  The second one is that somehow it's calculating electricity usage based on the total Kerbal capacity of the vessel instead of the actual Kerbals on board.  So when I load the save, it's reporting 2h10m of power on a station with a 9-Kerbal capacity and 5110 Electric Charge which has a crew of 2 Kerbals on board.  Enabling and disabling power sources on board shows that each battery and capsule is contributing to the calculation.

With TAC LS and Background Processing installed I am not seeing this issue at all.
I'm going to need some specific logs, saves, and description.
I launched several vessels with large capacity with a few kerbals on board.

EVAing one or two of them, switching  vessels, etc and I did not see negative/go nuts EC remaining or any readouts indicating it was calculating based on crew capacity (and I know it doesn't, because I wrote the code and double checked it).
EC usage and the time remaining is based on how many kerbals are on a vessel and the number of crewed parts there are at any given time.

[JPLRepo]

12 hours ago, Tommy59375 said:

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask about the BackgroundProcessing mod but I'm really not sure where would be more appropriate...

If I install this, will it cause EC to be consumed for other things too?  Eg. Will Commnet relays start to lose EC when I transmit science through them, or will the science lab use EC when I'm not focused on the vessel?

Will BackgroundProccessing also allow other processes to occur e.g. resource gathering when not focused on the vessel, or is it only for EC consumption?

Thanks!

 

As per the BackgroundProcessing thread which explains what it does.

 

[Tommy59375]

2 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

As per the BackgroundProcessing thread which explains what it does.

 

 

Thanks for posting that... now I realise I should have posted there!

It provides some details but it only really mentions charging batteries. So I'm wondering if it will allow other modules (e.g. The science lab) to consume EC when I'm not focused on the vessel.  The original thread also doesn't say anything about other processes eg. Resource harvesting and converting.  

And of course since the last "proper" update was for 1.1 (although you have kindly maintained it for 1.3) it's not clear whether the mod causes Commnet relays to lose EC if you transmit science through them (which I think would be a really cool feature!)

[SkyRender]

8 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

With TAC LS and Background Processing installed I am not seeing this issue at all.
I'm going to need some specific logs, saves, and description.
I launched several vessels with large capacity with a few kerbals on board.

EVAing one or two of them, switching  vessels, etc and I did not see negative/go nuts EC remaining or any readouts indicating it was calculating based on crew capacity (and I know it doesn't, because I wrote the code and double checked it).
EC usage and the time remaining is based on how many kerbals are on a vessel and the number of crewed parts there are at any given time.

I'm having trouble reproducing it on a new save too.  So I've uploaded the offending save and the log file: http://www.skyrender.net/tac_error.zip

The Mun Station Alpha craft is the afflicted one.  Any time you EVA from any craft, the station reports negative power remaining.  As well, it reports much-too-low power remaining before anyone goes on EVA.  Mods you'll definitely need installed to test it are TACLS (obviously) and KER.

Edited June 5, 2017 by SkyRender

[EoD]

Whenever I use CKAN to upgrade TACLS from v0.13.0 to v0.13.2, I get the following error:

Module BackGroundResources required but it is not listed in the index, or not available for your version of KSP.


Error!

 

[JPLRepo]

1 hour ago, EoD said:

Whenever I use CKAN to upgrade TACLS from v0.13.0 to v0.13.2, I get the following error:

Module BackGroundResources required but it is not listed in the index, or not available for your version of KSP.


Error!

 

That is a CKAN error, not a TAC LS error.

[panicvector]

I also have an issue with Life Support v0.13.2 and the electric charge (I'm using it with background processing). I made a screen shot to illustrate the problem. Electricity charge is near the maximum, but the life support monitoring shows that I'm without electricity for almost 2h. But it seems to be only an issue with the calculation for the display because the Kerbals don't die.

 

Save and log file: https://ufile.io/q5ogv

Edit: It looks like the same problem as  KerikBalm said

Quote

I switched to it, and the EC meter begian to go back up, but it stoped at about 4 hours... this cycle happened again except it told me that it had 2 hours of EC.

But I have the BackgroundProcessing mod installed.

Edited June 6, 2017 by panicvector

[SkyRender]

Good, I'm not the only one who's run into this!  More data points means more angles to attack the problem from.

[JPLRepo]

On 6/5/2017 at 9:31 PM, Tommy59375 said:

 

Thanks for posting that... now I realise I should have posted there!

It provides some details but it only really mentions charging batteries. So I'm wondering if it will allow other modules (e.g. The science lab) to consume EC when I'm not focused on the vessel.  The original thread also doesn't say anything about other processes eg. Resource harvesting and converting.  

And of course since the last "proper" update was for 1.1 (although you have kindly maintained it for 1.3) it's not clear whether the mod causes Commnet relays to lose EC if you transmit science through them (which I think would be a really cool feature!)

It allows what you suggest, but it doesn't do it. As the OP says, it supports mods using it to do what mods want. But out of the box it produces EC for unloaded vessels. TAC LS is using it to produce EC for unloaded vessels (but I would like to make that part of TAC when I have time). Given the number of issues people are reporting about EC with TAC in the last version I will try to find some time this weekend to work through the problems and fix things up for EC consumption/production for TAC. (But I can't promise it, I will try to do so).

[dlathro1]

I may have missed it, but TACLS does not seem to be updated on CKAN.

[JPLRepo]

2 hours ago, dlathro1 said:

I may have missed it, but TACLS does not seem to be updated on CKAN.

That is a problem to take up with the CKAN mod.

On 6/6/2017 at 9:57 PM, panicvector said:

I also have an issue with Life Support v0.13.2 and the electric charge (I'm using it with background processing). I made a screen shot to illustrate the problem. Electricity charge is near the maximum, but the life support monitoring shows that I'm without electricity for almost 2h. But it seems to be only an issue with the calculation for the display because the Kerbals don't die.

 

Save and log file: https://ufile.io/q5ogv

Edit: It looks like the same problem as  KerikBalm said

But I have the BackgroundProcessing mod installed.

After I got through all the clickspam of that file hosting site. there's nothing in that log that helps me unfortunately. and the save file I can't really use as it's a save with a ton of other mods installed.

[Rogirgg]

Make anyone  a Russian translation?

[Gougou]

Hi JPLRepo

First, thanks for your mod, I start playing with it recently and i love it, it brings a little more of realism I do only short mission for now but my future missions, it should be a challenge !!

But, I have the exactly same issue panicvector has. When I warp, "electricity remaining" goes down although the charge is stable. I don't know if this could help you but, i noticed that if i go for an EVA and reboard, the Life Support countdown is recalculated and the good value is shown after boarding.

[JPLRepo]

I have a dev version that I think fixes the problem. Anyone willing to test it for me?

1 hour ago, Rogirgg said:

Make anyone  a Russian translation?

Anyone willing to do the translations is most welcome.
The file with all the texts is in \GameData\ThunderAerospace\TacLifeSupport\Localization.cfg
If anyone wishes to do so for any of the languages you can submit a pull request on github or send/post the file here with translations in it. If you wish to translate and have questions about any of the texts, please ask.
Appreciate anyone who takes the time to do this.

[Gene Kerantz]

I'm happy to test if you would like.

[Gougou]

I can test it too if you want.

[Tirathangil]

10 hours ago, Rogirgg said:

Make anyone  a Russian translation?

I'm almost finished translation. I'm testing it now. I think, pull request will be literally tomorrow.

[JPLRepo]

2 hours ago, Gougou said:

I can test it too if you want.

Other world - (read Job) got in the way today. I'll try to get a dev build up on github in the next 24 hours so some of you fine folks can test my fixes.

Thanks.