[1.12.x] TAC - Life Support v0.18.0 - Release 19th Sep 2021

[fetusthebard]

Two bug reports, no log necessary unless requested. The first is more of a query than a report, as it could be WAI. Should ~30% CO2 exposure be deadly? If not, then you might want to check up on how CO2 is working when out of power. The second report is about EC again, sorry for reigniting this topic. The dev build fixed the EC bug, but now the game is charging extra EC if you increase the gamespeed. This is not a problem for people with solar panels or generators, as you are gaining more than you are losing due to the multiplication. This is a problem for non-energy generating ships however, even with 9 batteries it makes the trip to the mun cost more energy than you have.  

I'm currently up to date with both KSP and TAC (dev .13.4). If I'm simply missing a key mechanic please shout at me, I haven't played around with TAC in several months

[BlackMoons]

9 hours ago, fetusthebard said:

Two bug reports, no log necessary unless requested. The first is more of a query than a report, as it could be WAI. Should ~30% CO2 exposure be deadly? If not, then you might want to check up on how CO2 is working when out of power. The second report is about EC again, sorry for reigniting this topic. The dev build fixed the EC bug, but now the game is charging extra EC if you increase the gamespeed. This is not a problem for people with solar panels or generators, as you are gaining more than you are losing due to the multiplication. This is a problem for non-energy generating ships however, even with 9 batteries it makes the trip to the mun cost more energy than you have.  

I'm currently up to date with both KSP and TAC (dev .13.4). If I'm simply missing a key mechanic please shout at me, I haven't played around with TAC in several months

It takes surprisingly little CO2 to kill. You'll die of CO2 buildup in an enclosed space before you die of lack of O2!

That said, the death from lack of EC has nothing to do with your CO2 storage tanks %. without EC the life support system can't extract CO2 from the air. a few minutes of 10% CO2 levels have been reported to produce unconsciousness btw.

PS: Your lungs are not so picky about gases. You don't absorb oxygen and release CO2 as much as you absorb whatever gases are in the atmosphere and release whatever gases are building up in your blood that the atmosphere has less of then your blood. Hence small amounts of CO2 produce big problems.

[fetusthebard]

Thank you for part of my answer BlackMoons, I had no idea that the expulsion of CO2 was dependent on EC, I thought the CO2 ticking up was your "max comfortable CO2 percentage" (as you claim 10%) and once you hit it your crew begins to die. 

Didn't make much sense considering I've played with TAC before and went to full CO2 with no negative side effects, but as I said, I've been away a while. 

This does further complicate the multiplication of EC though. The fact that multiplication is happening means you are basically doomed to suffocate in HKO unless you strap ~12 radial batteries to your rocket in the early game, and that'll just bring you to the moon where you need to make the return trip.

[BlackMoons]

10 hours ago, fetusthebard said:

Thank you for part of my answer BlackMoons, I had no idea that the expulsion of CO2 was dependent on EC, I thought the CO2 ticking up was your "max comfortable CO2 percentage" (as you claim 10%) and once you hit it your crew begins to die. 

Didn't make much sense considering I've played with TAC before and went to full CO2 with no negative side effects, but as I said, I've been away a while. 

This does further complicate the multiplication of EC though. The fact that multiplication is happening means you are basically doomed to suffocate in HKO unless you strap ~12 radial batteries to your rocket in the early game, and that'll just bring you to the moon where you need to make the return trip.

Yes your CO2, wastewater and waste tanks can fill to 100% with no issue. All that happens is excess is vented to space and you can no longer use it to create O2/water/food via recyclers.

Actual CO2 level in the air of the command pod is never displayed anywhere. You have 2 hours to restore EC after failure, and then they die.

That said, without a healthy storage capacity for CO2/etc, it seems that recyclers often end up 'losing' CO2/etc if you leave a ship for longer then it can store built up CO2/etc.

And yes, for a one man command pod you need a WHOLE lot of batteries to get to the moon. Thankfully they are VERY light. Its a shame fuel cells don't come earlyer, but basically you should stick to orbital hops and experimenting on various kerbin biomes till you unlock solar panels or take a WHOLE LOT of batteries.

Considering that just a flyby of the mun can get enough science to pretty much unlock solar, its not a huge issue IMO to have one flight where you have a half ton of batteries on your 0.8ton command pod, just add more rockets.

PS: A half ton of the smallest batteries would be 100 of Z-100! or 25 of the Z400. for a total energy capacity of 10,000 either way. Pretty sure thats good for a couple days. IMO its more a fault of the stock batteries being too light per part, then TAC requiring too much electricity. Once you get solar panels (And the nice inline batteries) these problems mainly go away.

Edited August 7, 2017 by BlackMoons

[Gordon Dry]

I should mention this here, too:

Just a spreadsheet for TAC-LS into RealFuels ...

[LosWashos]

Hey,

I have now updated to 13.4dev but now I got the problem that there is no usage of the LS-ressources at all and the monitoring shows somewhat like "minus a few years and hours". (for every ship the same) Background processing is uninstalled but a ton of other mods still is on so a log wouldn't help I guess? Does someone have the same issue or can someone give me a hint how to deal with it? Thx

[NomenNescio]

Hey there, loving the mod so far, particularly the integration with Kerbal Planetary Base Systems, that having been said I'm really pining for a greenhouse module for my space stations. Just a suggestion for future installments. Thank you for your time.

[ExEvolution]

On 7/16/2017 at 2:20 AM, JPLRepo said:

Well that is most strange.... Because that's not what I see....
I launched your vessel. put it in orbit.. went to the KSC.
Open TAC window and timewarp.maximum.. few seconds later (cause it's got very little food or water)... and it doesn't run out of EC? ever..
It runs out of Food and Water before it runs out of EC.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

[Edit] - I don't not believe you.. I see it in the log...
But I don't understand why your results are different to mine.

I'm getting some similar behavior with time warp. TAC doesn't seem to be reading the vessel's current EC at all after hitting a moderate time warp.

 

Check out my negative electrical charge reading. Sending a Kerbal on EVA will reset the EC display

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by ExEvolution

[JPLRepo]

36 minutes ago, ExEvolution said:

I'm getting some similar behavior with time warp. TAC doesn't seem to be reading the vessel's current EC at all after hitting a moderate time warp.

 

Check out my negative electrical charge reading. Sending a Kerbal on EVA will reset the EC display

 

Screen pictures don't tell me much without logs and saves.
What version were you using the very latest development build?

[ExEvolution]

3 minutes ago, JPLRepo said:

Screen pictures don't tell me much without logs and saves.
What version were you using the very latest development build?

Didn't know there was a dev build, I'll try that

[Durendal5150]

6 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

Screen pictures don't tell me much without logs and saves.
What version were you using the very latest development build?

I've been having a similar problem. Can confirm after testing that removing all crew on EVA and then replacing them resets TAC's EC timer.

 

Logs via dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o43jo4md10ninas/KSP.log?dl=0

 

When the game was loaded, my craft had EC full-ish and producing, but timer read in negative hours. I attempted to EVA to reset it as ExEv describes but it didn't work. After attempting to deorbit the craft I EVA'd both crew, and this did reset the timer.

 

After which the game was loaded once again, both crew removed and replaced, and the timer began functioning as intended.

 

The timer became dysfunctional during a few weeks of timewarp at the space center overview screen. Unfortunately, I do not have the logs covering the point at which that occured, merely the startup and load during which it was fixed by method described.

 

EDIT: Hurr Durr version info. This was using TAC v0.13.2.0, KSP v1.3

Edited August 10, 2017 by Durendal5150
herp durp version

[ExEvolution]

I have not had this issue occur since updating to the Dev build, I'll be sure to report if I find any other issues.

[ThirdHorseman]

On 7/26/2017 at 11:09 AM, CptAWatts said:

Ah ok. Not sure if this helps or not, but I noticed that when I eva my kerbal out of the craft and then back in the electricity resets back to where it should be.

I ran into this same issue, with a space station having full EC but the TAC interface showing red and stating there were -23d of EC remaining.  EVAing all 7 of the Kerbals at the same time, so that there were no Kerbals remaining on the station, and then returning them reset the counter.  Then exiting to the Space Center reset the color of the TAC interface to green.

[KosmicRay]

I'm not sure if this is a "bug" or "feature", but TAC-LS does not seem to be processing converters (food, water) in the background. I had the EC bug and the latest dev release fixed that, but now rest of the resources are still depleting. I have a self sustaining ship setup using DSEV's greenhouse. When focused on the ship, I can warp and the resources process correctly. When not focused on the ship, the food continuously decreases. Is that a known issue?

Note: I'm playing extremely mod heavy :-). I can post more details if interested here, or on github.

Edit - I just made an interesting observation - this only occurs at 100,000x Warp. At 10,000x, the resource counter still depletes but when you return to the ship the resources are at the correct levels...

P.S. Sweet mod!

Edited August 10, 2017 by KosmicRay

[LosWashos]

Ok, i have a specification for my problem above. The monitoring is not updating itself so it shows for every resoruce 0 from the start and ticking down into minus forever, even when the ship has landed. And the LS-resources arent used as well. Any help there for this?

[JPLRepo]

24 minutes ago, LosWashos said:

Ok, i have a specification for my problem above. The monitoring is not updating itself so it shows for every resoruce 0 from the start and ticking down into minus forever, even when the ship has landed. And the LS-resources arent used as well. Any help there for this?

See OP. No logs = no support.
Are you running the latest dev build available via GitHub?

It's getting extremely difficult to tell if people are reporting bugs with what version... Please ensure you are running the latest DEV build available ONLY on github before reporting bugs.

Until I can confirm the dev build is working I can't release a full version.

[LosWashos]

Sry, latest dev build is installed but a ton of other mods too, so I assume a log wouldn't be helpful. It was more a question to all users if this occured to them too and if they found a solution. (conflict with other mod, missing mod...)

[TheRagingIrishman]

21 minutes ago, LosWashos said:

Sry, latest dev build is installed but a ton of other mods too, so I assume a log wouldn't be helpful. It was more a question to all users if this occured to them too and if they found a solution. (conflict with other mod, missing mod...)

a log is always helpful

[JPLRepo]

v0.13.5 Release Published.
From a lot of testing in the past week I can't reproduce the errors that had been reported in github.
See the Changelog. Significant changes. Please ensure you BACKUP your saves before upgrading.
I found a number of issues with the way the difficulty settings were being processed by TAC LS - so I have revamped them.
I have also coded a versioning system into TAC LS. Any old saves 'should' ^tm be upgraded automatically. But I highly recommend backing up and checking the TAC LS difficulty settings in any existing saves once you have upgraded and opened the saves.

As always, report any residual bugs or problems here, but also raising them on github, with logs, and saves and as much info as you can always helps me. The more information you can give me the easier it is for me to help you.

[LosWashos]

Installed the latest dev-build from today and still got the same problem. I uploaded the log of my latest crash today (had nothing to do with TAC as far as i can see) and my safefile (with a lot of mods on). Here is the Link

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qhzrk5g25yadfii/output_log.txt?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/88afk6fz1rquvj3/persistent.sfs?dl=0

Here is a Sceenshot of this save with the described problem.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w43joatunddbd72/20170812113453_1.gif?dl=0
 

This occurs in old games as well as in newly started ones. I tried with backgroundprocessing switched on and off - no difference. There is no resource-usage of the LS-resources and no updating to the monitor as well. Thanks for any help, I love the mod and really appreciate your work to maintain it.

[JPLRepo]

36 minutes ago, LosWashos said:

Installed the latest dev-build from today and still got the same problem. I uploaded the log of my latest crash today (had nothing to do with TAC as far as i can see) and my safefile (with a lot of mods on). Here is the Link

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qhzrk5g25yadfii/output_log.txt?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/88afk6fz1rquvj3/persistent.sfs?dl=0

Here is a Sceenshot of this save with the described problem.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w43joatunddbd72/20170812113453_1.gif?dl=0
 

This occurs in old games as well as in newly started ones. I tried with backgroundprocessing switched on and off - no difference. There is no resource-usage of the LS-resources and no updating to the monitor as well. Thanks for any help, I love the mod and really appreciate your work to maintain it.

From your log:

FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'BackgroundResources, Version=1.2.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null' or one of its dependencies.

You do not have TAC LS installed correctly.  You are missing \GameData\REPOSoftTech\BackgroundResources\BackgroundResources.dll
Please follow the instructions in the OP.
Download from one of the three repositories, unzip into the correct location.
 

[ItchyBrother]

11 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

v0.13.5 Release Published.
From a lot of testing in the past week .......
See the Changelog. Significant changes. Please ensure you BACKUP your saves before upgrading.
I found a number of issues with the way the difficulty settings were being processed by TAC LS - so I have revamped them.
I have also coded a versioning system into TAC LS. Any old saves 'should' ^tm be upgraded automatically. But I highly recommend backing up and checking the TAC LS difficulty settings in any existing saves once you have upgraded and opened the saves.

As always, report any residual bugs or problems here, but also raising them on github, with logs, and saves and as much info as you can always helps me. The more information you can give me the easier it is for me to help you.

This has fixed my problem.  Outstanding work.   I was a bit worried at first as both of my crewed ships enroute to Duna started at -170d + of Electricity remaining and then started counting down pretty rapidly from there back to a positive number.   I am one happy camper and of course my Kerbals are pretty happy right now too!  Thank you!

[Nashtoitsa]

I love the challenge on this mod.  However after installing ver. 13.5, my "Rescue Kerbals" are still kicking the bucket when I approach them.  I may know the reason way.  KSP is placing the Kerbal in a TAC supported module (MK1 Crew Cabin/K&K Corridor Airlock) but the module has no supplies of its own so they die.  I can not get to him fast enough to EVA so he can use the suit.  Is my thought process correct?  Is there anything that can be done to fix this so that KSP will put them in a EVA Suit or in a module that has its own supplies.

[LosWashos]

Ok that fixed it for me. Thank you very much. I don't know why it wasn't installed correcty. There was the .dll but in an smaller version. Thanks again.

[Eugene Moreau]

18 hours ago, Nashtoitsa said:

I love the challenge on this mod.  However after installing ver. 13.5, my "Rescue Kerbals" are still kicking the bucket when I approach them.  I may know the reason way.  KSP is placing the Kerbal in a TAC supported module (MK1 Crew Cabin/K&K Corridor Airlock) but the module has no supplies of its own so they die.  I can not get to him fast enough to EVA so he can use the suit.  Is my thought process correct?  Is there anything that can be done to fix this so that KSP will put them in a EVA Suit or in a module that has its own supplies.

Similar problem with me.  All of a sudden all my scientists on my station died from Oxygen toxicity, even though there was plenty of oxygen and plenty of room for CO2 to be stored.  The pilot in the copula was ok, but the scientists in the TH-NKR research lab kicked the bucket.  

 

Player Log ->  https://www.dropbox.com/s/d0sdxj5fzje32ta/TACPlayerLog.zip?dl=0