Jeb vs Sans

[RocketSquid]

I would argue that they probably would come to a logical agreement. Kerbals are typically portrayed as peaceful, and Sans only ever fights when the fate of the universe is at stake, so... I vote that they would come to some sort of an agreement, and that Jeb would probably die first in an unrelated firey explosion.

[ZooNamedGames]

4 hours ago, Souper said:

Just like surviving a fall from space by landing on your head isn't counted.

Then what is counted? Every form of combat for Jeb would simply be abusing the KSP physics to do what he needs which borders lines on your definition of a "glitch". Unless you want the rules to be arbitrary and include one but not the other.

4 hours ago, Souper said:

I'm pretty sure the devs didn't intend for you to fall from space and land on your head to survive.

 

Also, read the rules, the battle just happens, nothing gets in its way.

I'm also pretty sure the devs never meant for Jeb to get into combat. 

[Xannari Ferrows]

7 hours ago, Galacticvoyager said:

HEY MAN YOU STOLE MY SPOTLIGHT. NOW YOUR GONNA PAY!

*swings fist*

*Miss*

What? You think I'm just gonna stand there and take it?

[Souper]

1 hour ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Then what is counted?

Jeb can use his large head and his craft, and his determination since he can quicksave and quickload.

3 hours ago, RocketSquid said:

I would argue that they probably would come to a logical agreement. Kerbals are typically portrayed as peaceful, and Sans only ever fights when the fate of the universe is at stake, so... I vote that they would come to some sort of an agreement, and that Jeb would probably die first in an unrelated firey explosion.

Consider the description of the STEADLER agency and the description of the LV-N.

 

Also, peace is ignored. They will fight.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Souper

[Bill Phil]

6 hours ago, Souper said:

I'm pretty sure the devs didn't intend for you to fall from space and land on your head to survive.

 

Also, read the rules, the battle just happens, nothing gets in its way.

I did read the rules, and you added an addendum afterwards, which I also read. Cherry picking the rules.

35 minutes ago, Souper said:

Jeb can use his large head and his craft, and his determination since he can quicksave and quickload.

Consider the description of the STEADLER agency and the description of the LV-N.

 

Also, peace is ignored. They will fight.

You're allowing saving and not glitches...?

Edited September 11, 2016 by Bill Phil

[Planetace]

3 hours ago, Xannari Ferrows said:

*Miss*

What? You think I'm just gonna stand there and take it?

Erm... You know, being 2d in a 3D world is not a good idea...

Also your not sans...

[Souper]

20 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

I did read the rules, and you added an addendum afterwards, which I also read. Cherry picking the rules.

You're allowing saving and not glitches...?

Is saving a glitch?

[Bill Phil]

9 minutes ago, Souper said:

Is saving a glitch?

No, it's far worse. It makes Jeb super OP.

[Souper]

Just now, Bill Phil said:

No, it's far worse. It makes Jeb super OP.

Then jeb stomps.

[ZooNamedGames]

Your rules are too arbitrary, Jeb doesn't want to play! 

[DaElite101]

On 9/10/2016 at 2:52 PM, Souper said:

Just like the Apollo astronauts did. And can they survive being blown away by a Gaster Blaster? I don't think so.

Easy. Mount a heat shield onto a tiny rover and use that for cover and for running Sans over. NO WITNESSES!

[Slam_Jones]

Okay, so for those of us to whom the word Sans simply means "without," (AKA those who have not played UnderTale) can you describe just who this character is and what he is capable of?

As it is, I have to vote Jeb because I have not the slightest idea of who Sans is, or what he may be capable of.  And being a KSP forum, I imagine many folks are in the same boat.

TL;DR - Who is Sans and why should I vote for him?

[Bill Phil]

21 hours ago, Souper said:

Then jeb stomps.

What does that mean?

[Souper]

8 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

What does that mean?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CurbStompBattle

[temporalExile]

Alright guys, in order to answer this question, we need to analyse each character, and compare them.

 

SANS:

First off, Some context.

Sans is a goofy skeleton who lives with his brother Papyrus in the quaint little town of snowdin. While at first, it seems that the full extent of is abilities is telling bad jokes, over time, he is shown to posses an immense amount of power. However, it isn't until a player attempts a genocide run (killing every character in the game) that true scope of his capabilities are revealed. Near the end of a genocide run, he passes judgement upon the player for their sins, and proceeds to give them the ass-whooping of a lifetime.

Now that you have some basic info, here are his actual strength and weaknesses in battle:

Powers:

Gravity manipulation (telekinesis?) - Like his Brother papyrus, Sans hurl the player about the area. It is unclear whether he is simply using some kind of telekinetic magics, or if he is actually changing the gravity affecting the player. I'm going to choose the second one, as it makes for a more interesting fight between the two.

The Gaster Blaster - Sans can summon an object resembling a canid skull capable of firing a massive beam of energy. The resulting attack is probably equivalent to an exhaust plume from a rhino engine

Dodging/Short Range Teleportation - Sans is shown to be able to teleport himself across short distances, no more than ~30m. He can use this ability to dodge just about anything thrown at him, unless he happens to be caught off guard. 

Throwing bones - Can throw bones. Lots of 'em

Karmic Retribution - Arguably the strongest of his abilities, and the one that makes the least sense in a game like KSP. Karmic retribution removes the player's invincibility frames, meaning that every frame that one of his attacks is in contact with the player, it converts 1 normal hp into 1 poisoned hp. While that may not sound like a lot, it's worth noting that Undertale runs at 60fps, meaning that a player with the maximum amount of health (92) can be reduced to the brink of death in less than 2 seconds. As for how the poisoned hp works, I never figured out the specifics, but it seems as if the more poisoned hp a player has, the faster that hp decays (like uranium, and other things with half lives!). BUT, as if this ability wasn't already complicated enough, it's actually strength depends on how evil the target is. Since by the time you fight Sans, you're basically Satan incarnate. As for how "evil" Jeb is, I have no idea, so we'll just have sans be as powerful as he is in his boss fight

Awareness of timelines and Save/Load cycles - Although it's unclear whether or not sans can actually see into other timelines, he is definitely aware of their existence. This basically means that Sans will be able to figure out if Jeb is quicksaving/loading

Puns: He's got a ton of them. A skele-ton

 

Weaknesses:

Low stats - With incredible stats of 1 atk - 1 def, sans is technically the weakest enemy in the game.

Terrible Endurance - Sans cannot keep up a fight for too long before he might actually fall asleep. ~15 minutes before he has to take a rest

Nihilistic Viewpoint - Sans' awareness of save/load cycles have made him just about give up in life. The only reason he fights the player is because they threaten to end ALL timelines. This won't affect a fight much, since we're assuming he has a good reason to fightJjeb, I just think it's a cool part of the character

 

 

Jebediah B. Kerman ("Boosters" is his middle name)

If you're posting here, you probably already know all about KSP's golden pale green boy. You probably also know that you really can't do much with only 4k funds. That's only enough to afford 10 RT-10's, and that's ignoring any guidance systems to make it useful in a fight. SO, instead of a wimpy 4k funds, I say Jeb gets a more reasonable 100K funds to use, and 30 kerbal days with all the info listed above to prepare for a more fair fight. Now then, since KSP is a space exploration game, not a fighting simulator, Jeb is essentially limited to blowing something up something as far as attack methods go. Lucky for him, KSP has no shortage of ways to make things go boom.

1. Missiles: The first thing that comes to mind is a short range ballistic missile, like the ones we all used to make on accident.

2. Bombs: Though there aren't too many ways to build bombs, they are still a viable option

3. Some sort of specialized attack vehicle: Pretty much anything else he can do is just find a different way delivering one of the first 2 items to the target, whether it be by plane, tank, rocket, orbital bombardment structures, or an ion powered solar glider.

Basically it all boils down to Jeb coming up with a way to make a lot of "boom" happen, without giving sans a chance to teleport to safety. He could blanket an area with so many explosions that sans doesn't have a chance to dodge it, but there's nothing stopping Sans from just slamming whatever Jeb built into the ground, or sending it on a nice Kerbin escape trajectory.

 

IN CONCLUSION...

Given enough funds, Jeb could probably manage a hit on Sans, and a hit is all it takes, but at 100k, it's unlikely, and at 4k, it's practically impossible. Sans probably wins, although it depends on what Jeb can come up with.

Honestly I think his best option is invoking the Mighty Space Kraken for help, which makes me wonder...

How would Gaster hold up against the Kraken?

[ZooNamedGames]

37 minutes ago, temporalExile said:

Alright guys, in order to answer this question, we need to analyse each character, and compare them.

 

SANS:

First off, Some context.

Sans is a goofy skeleton who lives with his brother Papyrus in the quaint little town of snowdin. While at first, it seems that the full extent of is abilities is telling bad jokes, over time, he is shown to posses an immense amount of power. However, it isn't until a player attempts a genocide run (killing every character in the game) that true scope of his capabilities are revealed. Near the end of a genocide run, he passes judgement upon the player for their sins, and proceeds to give them the ass-whooping of a lifetime.

Now that you have some basic info, here are his actual strength and weaknesses in battle:

Powers:

Gravity manipulation (telekinesis?) - Like his Brother papyrus, Sans hurl the player about the area. It is unclear whether he is simply using some kind of telekinetic magics, or if he is actually changing the gravity affecting the player. I'm going to choose the second one, as it makes for a more interesting fight between the two.

The Gaster Blaster - Sans can summon an object resembling a canid skull capable of firing a massive beam of energy. The resulting attack is probably equivalent to an exhaust plume from a rhino engine

Dodging/Short Range Teleportation - Sans is shown to be able to teleport himself across short distances, no more than ~30m. He can use this ability to dodge just about anything thrown at him, unless he happens to be caught off guard. 

Throwing bones - Can throw bones. Lots of 'em

Karmic Retribution - Arguably the strongest of his abilities, and the one that makes the least sense in a game like KSP. Karmic retribution removes the player's invincibility frames, meaning that every frame that one of his attacks is in contact with the player, it converts 1 normal hp into 1 poisoned hp. While that may not sound like a lot, it's worth noting that Undertale runs at 60fps, meaning that a player with the maximum amount of health (92) can be reduced to the brink of death in less than 2 seconds. As for how the poisoned hp works, I never figured out the specifics, but it seems as if the more poisoned hp a player has, the faster that hp decays (like uranium, and other things with half lives!). BUT, as if this ability wasn't already complicated enough, it's actually strength depends on how evil the target is. Since by the time you fight Sans, you're basically Satan incarnate. As for how "evil" Jeb is, I have no idea, so we'll just have sans be as powerful as he is in his boss fight

Awareness of timelines and Save/Load cycles - Although it's unclear whether or not sans can actually see into other timelines, he is definitely aware of their existence. This basically means that Sans will be able to figure out if Jeb is quicksaving/loading

Puns: He's got a ton of them. A skele-ton

 

Weaknesses:

Low stats - With incredible stats of 1 atk - 1 def, sans is technically the weakest enemy in the game.

Terrible Endurance - Sans cannot keep up a fight for too long before he might actually fall asleep. ~15 minutes before he has to take a rest

Nihilistic Viewpoint - Sans' awareness of save/load cycles have made him just about give up in life. The only reason he fights the player is because they threaten to end ALL timelines. This won't affect a fight much, since we're assuming he has a good reason to fightJjeb, I just think it's a cool part of the character

 

 

Jebediah B. Kerman ("Boosters" is his middle name)

If you're posting here, you probably already know all about KSP's golden pale green boy. You probably also know that you really can't do much with only 4k funds. That's only enough to afford 10 RT-10's, and that's ignoring any guidance systems to make it useful in a fight. SO, instead of a wimpy 4k funds, I say Jeb gets a more reasonable 100K funds to use, and 30 kerbal days with all the info listed above to prepare for a more fair fight. Now then, since KSP is a space exploration game, not a fighting simulator, Jeb is essentially limited to blowing something up something as far as attack methods go. Lucky for him, KSP has no shortage of ways to make things go boom.

1. Missiles: The first thing that comes to mind is a short range ballistic missile, like the ones we all used to make on accident.

2. Bombs: Though there aren't too many ways to build bombs, they are still a viable option

3. Some sort of specialized attack vehicle: Pretty much anything else he can do is just find a different way delivering one of the first 2 items to the target, whether it be by plane, tank, rocket, orbital bombardment structures, or an ion powered solar glider.

Basically it all boils down to Jeb coming up with a way to make a lot of "boom" happen, without giving sans a chance to teleport to safety. He could blanket an area with so many explosions that sans doesn't have a chance to dodge it, but there's nothing stopping Sans from just slamming whatever Jeb built into the ground, or sending it on a nice Kerbin escape trajectory.

 

IN CONCLUSION...

Given enough funds, Jeb could probably manage a hit on Sans, and a hit is all it takes, but at 100k, it's unlikely, and at 4k, it's practically impossible. Sans probably wins, although it depends on what Jeb can come up with.

Honestly I think his best option is invoking the Mighty Space Kraken for help, which makes me wonder...

How would Gaster hold up against the Kraken?

I know some people that have made some frighteningly effective combat vehicles in stock KSP... so powerful that they can survive the exhaust of a Rhino long enough to cause enough damage to justify the defense. As well as easily deflect chunks of calcium. In this armored vehicle, Sans' telekenises would be rendered null since it's going to be massive. As to Karmic Retribution is as you said, pretty useless in this context, but in my case the 60fps aspect is futile! Games run at 20 fps for me so ha! As to the awareness of quicksaves and quickloads despite his awareness, this gives Jeb a "Ground Hog's Day" esque chance to fail, repeat, endlessly until he learns the extent of Sans' powers and actions. It may take millions of attempts, but seeing as Kerbals do not require food/water/sleep, he can do this endlessly until he wins.

Lastly, one aspect that Jeb has that even Sans can't manage, is the ability to control time. He has two aspects he can control. Physics Warp and Time Warp. With Physical Warp he could likely cause enough error in the physical calculations that some of his attacks would phase through Jeb and his vessel. Not to mention cause additional strain on Sans himself. Granted; the opposite side of the coin is that Jeb experiences the same issues. However the greater of his two abilities would be Time Warp. Despite Sans' abilities, even the developers of the game would agree that Sans likely would in time; erode away. I take it he is made of calcium and that he exists in an atmosphere that also contains water? If so; then he will erode into dust and eventually cease to exist. So Jeb would win by default seeing as Jeb does not.

The only challenge that Jeb cannot account for is his teleportation. Which again, his ability to endlessly retry battles, he can account for, in time. With this in mind, it becomes a chess battle where Jeb must slowly through logic and thought, push Sans back into a place where he is trapped and then beat.

As to the Kraken... well it'd be a third player that wouldn't play nice for either. Sans and Jeb would be jiggled and crushed into oblivion. Granted, Sans has health and the Kraken would likely degrade it over time, and Jeb (if he can survive not "popping") can survive indefinitely. So even with the Kraken in mind; Jeb would win... as long as the Kraken isn't too agitated. If Jeb causes a Hell Kraken then it's a draw seeing as it would end space and time. Granted if Jeb is controlled by Danny2462, then the Kraken's will be merciless and Sans stands no chance!

So Jeb wins... even after a detailed analysis of both fighters.

[Xannari Ferrows]

Alright, this has gone on long enough. Time for my special attack. Here goes nothin'

...

Yeah, that's right. It's literally nothing. I know I can't beat you. And one of your turns, you're just gonna kill me. So, uh, I've decided it's never gonna be your turn, ever. I'm just gonna keep having my turn until you give up, even if it means we have to stand here until the end of time. Capiche?

...

Yeah yeah this isn't my quote. Whatever. Anyway, I know how you work. I can see it in you. It's not determination, but it seems to be similar in function. Several breaks in the timeline just seem to randomly happen, and I bet I know who's responsible. You've got some nerve, you know that?

...

I've seen how this game ends. You'll eventually do everything there is to do. See every line of text, collect every bit of science, go to every moon or planet thing out there, and then what? You'll do it over and over again, just for "fun". It's not like you'll ever be satisfied, so why persevere?

...

You've got some patience, I'll give you that. But I gotta wonder... Why? You can just go back right now, and I wont remember any of this. It's not like I can stop you or anything. I can't control that kind of stuff, so I can't beat you, but you can't beat me either. If worse comes to worse, which I hope doesn't happen, I can terminate this timeline for good. Maybe I can't move along it or control how it works, but I can get rid of it

...

I don't know. I'll never be able to understand you. You're a strange being, you know that? You don't really make any sense. I don't even know if you understand any of this, so I'll do the one thing I elected to do. We're gonna stand here forever, either until you leave here, or the universe ends. Whichever comes last

[Firemetal]

Woah. I know I said that neither would win but... Sans just has special powers. He just attacks until his opponent is dead. But Jeb has brains. He would quickly know how to dodge all of Sans' attacks and how to beat him. Then Jeb just comes in with a fighter jet and takes Sans out. Sorry guys. Jeb wins.

Fire

[Spacetraindriver]

Sans: Do you wanna have a bad...*gets hit by random rocket*

Jeb wins.