The New O-10 Puff Engines

[luizopiloto]

The new Puffs are a lot bigger than the old ones, but have the same performance...
What about increase it's performance or scale it down to be at the same size of the old ones?

[Alshain]

They aren't even released yet.  Maybe you should try them first.

[luizopiloto]

I confirmed with some streamers that have access to the pre-release version, that the new O-10 Puff have the same specs of the old ones... but got a lot bigger... 

[Temeter]

They are going to come in big and small:

[Jarin]

On 9/13/2016 at 11:51 AM, luizopiloto said:

I confirmed with some streamers that have access to the pre-release version, that the new O-10 Puff have the same specs of the old ones... but got a lot bigger... 

Probably part of why the new parts aren't officially making it into this release.

[Stoney3K]

The O-10 was based on the ol' Shuttle OMS, so it should have been bigger from the start. The rocket engine overhaul was scrubbed from 1.2, but it may still make it into future releases, I guess.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Stoney3K

[regex]

14 minutes ago, Temeter said:

They are going to come in big and small:

DELIVER UNTO ME THAT SKIPPER AND EVERY SINGLE COMPACT ENGINE EVAR

God, those look so good, I can't wait.

[TheDestroyer111]

16 minutes ago, Temeter said:

They are going to come in big and small:

This looks like something terribly terrible! The vector is already quite underpowered, and making it larger and less thrust will NOT make it better suiting what it is best at (space shuttles, as well as submarine ballast ) also a twin nozzle poodle looks very ugly and would deffo look even uglier on an apollo spacecraft, which the old poodle probably is based on.

Edited September 14, 2016 by TheDestroyer111

[Temeter]

Just now, regex said:

DELIVER UNTO ME THAT SKIPPER AND EVERY SINGLE COMPACT ENGINE EVAR

God, those look so good, I can't wait.

Don't they? And here squad said they released that pack to help with the anticipation

2 minutes ago, TheDestroyer111 said:

This looks like something terribly terrible! The vector is already quite underpowered, and making it larger and less thrust will NOT make it better suiting what it is best at (space shuttles, as well as submarine ballast ) also a twin nozzle poodle looks very ugly and would deffo look even uglier on an apollo spacecraft, which the old poodle probably is based on.

The vector is one of the most obviously OP engines there is. It's a better mainsail at 2/3rd scale.

Also, you're wrong about the poodle.

[Frozen_Heart]

9 minutes ago, TheDestroyer111 said:

This looks like something terribly terrible! The vector is already quite underpowered, and making it larger and less thrust will NOT make it better suiting what it is best at (space shuttles, as well as submarine ballast ) also a twin nozzle poodle looks very ugly and would deffo look even uglier on an apollo spacecraft, which the old poodle probably is based on.

I'm not sure what version of KSP you're playing, but in mine it is the most OP engine in the game...

[Tweeker]

13 hours ago, TheDestroyer111 said:

This looks like something terribly terrible! The vector is already quite underpowered, and making it larger and less thrust will NOT make it better suiting what it is best at (space shuttles, as well as submarine ballast ) also a twin nozzle poodle looks very ugly and would deffo look even uglier on an apollo spacecraft, which the old poodle probably is based on.

I agree, and disagree,

    It does look terrible, KSP needs a lot of thing, An art pass/engine balancing is not one of them.

    The vector is greatly overpowered, And SUCKS for building {realistic} shuttles, It needs to be beat with the nerf bat.

    The new poodle is ugly as sin, infact all the those engines are. I'll say it again, there are a lot of other things KSP needs more than an rebalancing the engines {again}, and re-doing the artwork.

 

[KSK]

15 hours ago, TheDestroyer111 said:

This looks like something terribly terrible! The vector is already quite underpowered, and making it larger and less thrust will NOT make it better suiting what it is best at (space shuttles, as well as submarine ballast ) also a twin nozzle poodle looks very ugly and would deffo look even uglier on an apollo spacecraft, which the old poodle probably is based on.

It's all personal opinion of course but the current Poodle makes a pretty lousy Apollo SPS too, aesthetically at least. A compact Rhino would be a better fit. Assuming that I'm understanding compact correctly of course, which is 'fits onto the next sized down fuel tank to the standard version', and so the compact Rhino will fit onto a 2.5m tank.

[KSK]

1 hour ago, Tweeker said:

 I'll say it again, there are a lot of other things KSP needs more than an rebalancing the engines {again}, and re-doing the artwork.

I disagree. Overhauling the rocket part artwork is long overdue and with any luck it's going to be more than an art pass anyway, if we're getting three versions of each engine to play with and (fingers crossed) upgradeable engines too. New game features, new scope for creative designs, all wrapped up in a prettier box. I can't see any downsides to that.

[Red Iron Crown]

15 hours ago, TheDestroyer111 said:

The vector is already quite underpowered...

Literally the first time I've ever seen anyone claim this. By what metric is it underpowered?

[ImmaStegosaurus!]

21 hours ago, Temeter said:

Spoiler

 

They are going to come in big and small:

 

 

New engines? GREAT!

 

[Temeter]

22 minutes ago, ImmaStegosaurus! said:

New engines? GREAT!

Yep, and a full rebalance around those new parts, probably including the upgrade system over the tech tree, improving old parts!

Not to mention 1.3 should come with a big visual upgrade i general!

[Tweeker]

2 hours ago, ImmaStegosaurus! said:

New engines? GREAT!

 

Don't fall for it, It's a trick

The 303 is redundant, it is only 2 KN off in thrust from the spark, "Boat tail" designs are not that much different from the existing designs, the "skirt " is just longer.

The "compact" design is just a way to sneak in the magic nozzle school of thought.

Instead of wasting time with this they could be adding the outer planets, or life support, or maybe some thermo-/arc/resisto- jet engines, or any other amount of actually new content,.

[Temeter]

57 minutes ago, Tweeker said:

The 303 is redundant, it is only 2 KN off in thrust from the spark

^ He doesn't know upgrades, ...

Quote

"Boat tail" designs are not that much different from the existing designs, the "skirt " is just longer.

... lacks understanding of aerodynamics ...

Quote

wasting time

... and is wrong.

[Capt Snuggler]

1 hour ago, Tweeker said:

Don't fall for it, It's a trick

The 303 is redundant, it is only 2 KN off in thrust from the spark, "Boat tail" designs are not that much different from the existing designs, the "skirt " is just longer.

The "compact" design is just a way to sneak in the magic nozzle school of thought.

Instead of wasting time with this they could be adding the outer planets, or life support, or maybe some thermo-/arc/resisto- jet engines, or any other amount of actually new content,.

That is some tin-foil-hat lunacy there brother.

Chances are they're not final stats of the 303. Also don't know weight, vector angle, drag, cost, isp...

the boat tail is clearly an option to reduce drag on launch stages and space planes.

the "compact" design is to allow large engines to neatly be fitted to smaller tanks eg. Mainsail to a 1.25 tank. Also makes engine clustering easier with less clipping.

this revamp has been on the cards for a long time. Porkjets been working on this in paralel to development. One artist doing one job independently.

The Dev team has been producing "new" content. No time has been wasted.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Capt Snuggler

[Guest]

The Puff is very small for the thrust it produces; now it's more appropriate. That said, I would prefer it to keep its original size and be reduced to 10kn thrust.

[ImmaStegosaurus!]

I'm very happy to see the new Poodle. One of my favourite engines atm! I just hope it has four bells like SLS second stage, which it is modelled after I think, has.

I'm definitely happy to see Vector get maced hard by the nerfbat but I think Boar should have even higher thrust and lower ISP. Real RS-25 produces around 1000 kN of thrust while F-1 puts out around 7200 kN. Maybe it would have been more logical to have Mainsail give 900 kN and give 1500 kN for Boar and 3000 kN for Twin Boar.

[TheDestroyer111]

22 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Literally the first time I've ever seen anyone claim this. By what metric is it underpowered?

A typical space shuttle needs much more than 3 vector engines and 2 kickback boosters to lift off and be able to carry reasonable payload. By typical. I mean something in the american STS layout.

I totally agree with you @Tweeker now the vector should be named mainsail and given less gimbal range, while mainsail should become called vector and given larger gimbal.

Edited September 16, 2016 by TheDestroyer111

[cfds]

17 minutes ago, TheDestroyer111 said:

A typical space shuttle needs much more than 3 vector engines and 2 kickback boosters to lift off and be able to carry reasonable payload. By typical. I mean something in the american STS layout.

The problem is that the SRBs are to weak. The SSME where pretty much second stage sustainer engines that were just started together with the SRBs, they did provide roughly a sixth of the total thrust at liftoff. In KSP, the three Vectors would provide two thirds...

Edited September 16, 2016 by cfds

[Stoney3K]

5 minutes ago, cfds said:

The problem is that the SRBs are to weak. The SSME where pretty much second stage sustainer engines that were just started together with the SRBs, they did provide roughly a sixth of the total thrust at liftoff. In KSP, the three Vectors would provide two thirds...

^^^ That. Tweakscale a pair of Kickbacks to 1,5 of their original size and you have enough thrust to get into orbit while keeping a decent amount of control while still staying true to the STS replica.

But even though I can see the charm of discussing rocket part balance once again, this thread was about the Puff engine only.

[mattinoz]

I thought the point of the compact versions would be to have cluster plates for building mix and match engines. Also would be great if higher level cluster plate allowed thrust vectoring to avoid using more expensive engines.