Suggestion: Make wheels act like wheels instead of round sleds.

[Talavar]

26 minutes ago, Arsonide said:

Unfortunately these two statements directly contradict each other. Polish does not come from the polish fairy. Every second we spend on Feature X is a second that Feature Y does not get.

 @Arsonide  Don't get the wrong idea from my OP. I'd never bash anything squad has accomplished in other areas simply because the wheels don't work "correctly", The game has really come along nicely as far as optimization goes. The frame rate is killer now, and all the added features look/feel great. Yet, this wheel thing is simply a game breaker for me. I enjoy creating aircraft/SSTO the most in KSP, and roving around. As it stands, It's simply too frustrating. I was wondering..Was the added slip a mandatory function to override a greater problem? If not, I'm all for taking it out. lol... Sometimes less is more.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Talavar

[steve_v]

25 minutes ago, Arsonide said:

Every second we spend on Feature X is a second that Feature Y does not get.

So if I am to read between the lines, this statement + pointed not-answering of "Why not multiple raycasts" == "Too much work to fix properly"??

[Talavar]

4 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Well, I just flew 2 different SSTOs (mixture of small & medium retractable gear) to orbit and back, takeoff from the runway, landed on some random lumpy grass, no real problems. The gear still slide sideways more than they should IMO, but not exactly "Disney on ice" and quite manageable really. The demon possessed pogo stick effect on touchdown is also much reduced.

Which gear are you using anyway? Takeoff speed? Craft Mass & gear layout?
Pics? demo vid? proof? You know the old saying...

   This really isn't necessary.. everyone knows the wheels slide too much.. I just threw together an aircraft using the tools provided (drag, weight, thrust vector). All aligned perfectly as I had done 1000 times before in 1.0.5 .. It should have flown. but before it took off, it just turned sideways like a car doing a powerslide.. I don't want to have to break out a slide rule to keep the aircraft from slipping completely sideways in the wind while moving around 70mps on the runway, which is completely absurd with an aerodynamic craft.. It shouldn't be overly complicated. Though, I'm glad it worked out for you, enjoy.  

[steve_v]

9 minutes ago, Talavar said:

This really isn't necessary.

Not sure I agree, because:

9 minutes ago, Talavar said:

everyone knows the wheels slide too much

I don't, they seem much better to me.
Sliding, yes. Unable to take off level sliding, no.

9 minutes ago, Talavar said:

I don't want to have to break out a slide rule

And I didn't need a slide-rule, just a mk.1 eyeball. Didn't expect the thing to fly TBH, I'm used to FAR.

9 minutes ago, Talavar said:

slipping completely sideways in the wind while moving around 70mps on the runway, which is completely absurd with an aerodynamic craft..

What wind? KSP has no wind.

The last craft I flew got up to a borderline absurd 186m/s on the runway, a little drifting to the left, but no sliding. I'm genuinely curious as to what you are doing so differently from me.
Random thought, you have disabled steering on the rear gear, right?

Edited September 16, 2016 by steve_v

[ZooNamedGames]

Squad adds wheels.

People demand superior wheel physics.

Squad improves wheel physics.

People complain about wheel physics.

Life is a vicious cycle  .

[Arsonide]

20 minutes ago, steve_v said:

So if I am to read between the lines, this statement + pointed not-answering of "Why not multiple raycasts" == "Too much work to fix properly"??

You could read between the lines and probably come up with all sorts of things, but unfortunately I will still not be able to answer any questions regarding future decisions.

[Talavar]

1 minute ago, steve_v said:

Not sure I agree, because:

I don't, TBH.
Sliding, yes. Unable to take off level sliding, no.

And I didn't need a slide-rule, just a mk.1 eyeball. Didn't expect the thing to fly TBH, I'm used to FAR.

What wind? KSP has no wind.

The last craft I flew got up to a borderline absurd 186m/s on the runway, a little drifting to the left, but no sliding. I'm genuinely curious as to what you are doing so differently from me.

 You yourself admitted previously that they slide more than they should.  You're taking my exaggeration of the slide-rule too seriously, I'm simply implying something that took off before should still take off now, which it doesn't unless you tweak it perfectly, I guess.. The same design does fly well with a vertical take-off when attached to a lifter stage...   The wind, as in "headwind" created by moving forward..  My craft was literally 14 parts, cockpit, 2 small tanks.  an engine, 2 intakes, 2 deltawings, 2 canards, a tail-fin and 3 landing gear. nose slightly elevated from the gear.. same design I've always used for a simply fly-around. The only thing I can think of is that there wasn't enough "friction" on the tires since the craft was so light... Anyway, around 60-70 mps, The craft literally fishtails sideways, which is completely bizarre because the drag is behind the center of mass. I don't currently have recording software, so no video's today, unfortunately. 

[steve_v]

17 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Squad adds wheels.

People demand superior wheel physics.

Squad improves wheel physics.

People complain about wheel physics.

Life is a vicious cycle  .

Someone points out a flaw in the game.

You inevitably turn up to complain about people complaining.

Anything, you know, wheel related to add to the discussion of wheels? Constructive ideas on how to improve wheel physics perhaps?

7 minutes ago, Talavar said:

same design I've always used for a simply fly-around.

Small fixed gear perchance? I will admit I have not tried those.

Building small fixed-gear craft now.

Another random thought: You're not actually trying to take off from that tier 1 runway construction site are you? That's bound to end in disaster...

Edited September 16, 2016 by steve_v

[ZooNamedGames]

1 minute ago, steve_v said:

Someone points out a flaw in the game.

You inevitably turn up to complain about people complaining.

Anything, you know, wheel related to add to the discussion of wheels? Constructive ideas on how to improve wheel physics perhaps?

Yeah I got commentary.

I've never once have experienced your issues that you've spent months complaining over, in a fashion that was unsolvable. I build, I fly, I repeat the process. In fact I've been working with wheels more now than ever and yet I still have not experienced your issue.

[Tr1gg3r]

Ive hardly played ksp as ive been waiting for wheel fix and i gotta say, they are alot better now, not perfect (granted) mine are on default settings and seem to be working better. Im yet to test just how much changing any settings will effect behaviour? Id be interested to hear ppl's feedback on that?

[Talavar]

7 minutes ago, Tr1gg3r said:

Ive hardly played ksp as ive been waiting for wheel fix and i gotta say, they are alot better now, not perfect (granted) mine are on default settings and seem to be working better. Im yet to test just how much changing any settings will effect behaviour? Id be interested to hear ppl's feedback on that?

 I may go dig up some recording software, as suggested earlier... It makes things much simpler, .. we can compare then.. seeing is believing.. lol.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Talavar

[steve_v]

Well, flew a little (16 part, sorry) delta, 2 juno, trycycle gear craft. Couldn't make it spin out at all. Easy enough to make it flip with unwise steering input on the runway, but no sliding whatsoever.
I did, on the other hand, discover a most disconcerting camera bug after crashing it into the VAB, which I am about to report...

Edited September 16, 2016 by steve_v
more typo

[ZooNamedGames]

1 minute ago, Talavar said:

 I may go dig up some recording software, as suggested earlier... It makes things much simpler, .. we can compare then.. seeing is believing.. lol.

I've got OBS sitting and waiting to show you that I've got a fleet of rovers and aircraft ready to fly without any issue from their landing gear.

[Talavar]

1 minute ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I've got OBS sitting and waiting to show you that I've got a fleet of rovers and aircraft ready to fly without any issue from their landing gear.

 lol.. I'd be happy with a simple two tank aircraft, and the actual assembly of it, before you fly it. I can compare yours to mine then.

[ZooNamedGames]

Just now, Talavar said:

 lol.. I'd be happy with a simple two tank aircraft, and the actual assembly of it, before you fly it. I can compare yours to mine then.

I can share the craft file which may be easier. I got an old reliable aircraft that has never really been impacted by KSP's updates. Want me to share?

[Tr1gg3r]

1 minute ago, Talavar said:

 I may go dig up some recording software, as suggested earlier... It makes things much simpler, .. seeing is believing.. lol.

Lol might be worth it mate, altho im well aware that just cause my wheels work doesnt mean someone elses doesnt  i take it uve messed about with all the spring & damper settings etc? Are there more settings now thru the adv tweakable fingy? Im gona fire ksp up in bit and hava mess about.

[ZooNamedGames]

2 minutes ago, Tr1gg3r said:

Lol might be worth it mate, altho im well aware that just cause my wheels work doesnt mean someone elses doesnt  i take it uve messed about with all the spring & damper settings etc? Are there more settings now thru the adv tweakable fingy? Im gona fire ksp up in bit and hava mess about.

I've never needed to. I have tried to fiddle with the controls but the impact seems minimal at best so I just ignore it and alter the design of the craft.

I love how I started bickering with @Talavar and now we're coming to a peaceful resolution  . That's awesome!

[Talavar]

6 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I've never needed to. I have tried to fiddle with the controls but the impact seems minimal at best so I just ignore it and alter the design of the craft.

I love how I started bickering with @Talavar and now we're coming to a peaceful resolution  . That's awesome!

 And so are the days of our lives... lol.... anyway, I have OBS now, myself. I redownloaded KSP and am building my craft. I'll show you what I'm referring to.

[steve_v]

Well, since I made it for the bug I now cannot reproduce... Here's me being silly on the takeoff roll. No slidey. Almost flippy, and some bouncy-bouncy on landing... but no slidey.

[Shadowmage]

I'm just going to leave this here:

KerbalFoundries is working on wheels that are actually -round-.  Yes you can tilt them.  Yes you can angle them.  Yes they act like circles instead of rays (actually that behaviour is configurable between spheres, rays, and a compound capsule shape approximating the wheel).  Note:  Working on -- doesn't mean they are fully working yet.

These are a completely custom solution and do not use the Unity 5 wheel collider at all.  If/when it is finished we will be including a patch that will apply the custom wheel-collider to the stock wheels as well.

[steve_v]

4 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

I'm just going to leave this here:

Aw man, that's just cruel. Want. Now.

That looks awesome.

Edited September 16, 2016 by steve_v

[Talavar]

OBS is giving me grief for some reason.... Gonna be a few... lol

[Talavar]

58 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I've got OBS sitting and waiting to show you that I've got a fleet of rovers and aircraft ready to fly without any issue from their landing gear.

 I forgot to hit The HD button on upload, but none-the-less, here it is.. This one didn't turn completely sideways. but still slides and goes Ape....

 

[Tr1gg3r]

30 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

I'm just going to leave this here:

KerbalFoundries is working on wheels that are actually -round-.  Yes you can tilt them.  Yes you can angle them.  Yes they act like circles instead of rays (actually that behaviour is configurable between spheres, rays, and a compound capsule shape approximating the wheel).  Note:  Working on -- doesn't mean they are fully working yet.

These are a completely custom solution and do not use the Unity 5 wheel collider at all.  If/when it is finished we will be including a patch that will apply the custom wheel-collider to the stock wheels as well.

Yer been following KF progress, me needs tracks

sounds like things going well, fingers crossed for y'all.

[ZooNamedGames]

I know you made that in like 30 seconds but there are build flaws that have to be solved before completely blaming the game.

1. Put control surfaces on those wings
2. change those static vertical stabilizers to ones that can angle themselves otherwise your lacking yaw control.
3. shorten the plane, longer the more issues your going to encounter unless you move the landing gear further out.
4. Move the forward control surfaces further up

That's it for now. Do that and try again.