[1.12.x] Konstruction! Weldable ports, servos, cranes, and magnets!

[Nergal8617]

13 hours ago, MarethyuGamer said:

Idea: weldable construction dock for EPL. Could be used to build an extension of a ship/base, then attach it permanently, disappearing in the process. Could be useful if you want to build a new module for your surface base that is rigidly attached to the rest of it AND attached to the ground with things like pylons or clamps, so cannot be moved to dock.

Unlikely to happen for EPL since it is no longer officially supported by RoverDude.

[RoverDude]

Also not sure how this differs from what we already have.

[Wyzard]

8 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Also not sure how this differs from what we already have.

I think the idea would be to EPL/GC an extension onto an existing vessel, instead of creating a whole new one.  Like a DIYKit that holds a subassembly and docks to a construction port before being built, so the subassembly spawns already attached to the DIYKit's parent vessel.

[RoverDude]

2 minutes ago, Wyzard said:

I think the idea would be to EPL/GC an extension onto an existing vessel, instead of creating a whole new one.  Like a DIYKit that holds a subassembly and docks to a construction port before being built, so the subassembly spawns already attached to the DIYKit's parent vessel.

Yeah, that would be wildly outside of the scope of this mod.  Better for the relevant mod threads.

[Wyzard]

BTW, I have a Minmus base with several parts supported by Konstruction's PAL cradles, and I just noticed today that I get several log messages every second that say "DragCubeSystem: Rendering procedural drag for PAL.Cradle250".  Is that something that others have seen?  (I don't know if it's a new problem, or if it's been happening for a long time; I don't look at log window very often.)

[RoverDude]

20 minutes ago, Wyzard said:

BTW, I have a Minmus base with several parts supported by Konstruction's PAL cradles, and I just noticed today that I get several log messages every second that say "DragCubeSystem: Rendering procedural drag for PAL.Cradle250".  Is that something that others have seen?  (I don't know if it's a new problem, or if it's been happening for a long time; I don't look at log window very often.)

1.3.1 correct?

[Wyzard]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

1.3.1 correct?

Yep, 1.3.1, and still happens with all mods removed except USI stuff (plus bundled dependencies) and KIS.  (KIS isn't really related; it's just that the base has some KIS parts on it.)  I can provide a test save if you need it.

[RoverDude]

Thanks - I have some ideas

[Wyzard]

BTW, I should add that the messages only happen when I'm actually at the base — not when I'm at the KSC, or controlling other vessels that aren't near the base.  And the messages stop if I remove the cradles (with the MKS "disassemble" button).  So it seems to be related (unsurprisingly) to having those parts actually loaded and involved in physics.

[Kerbal Pig]

@RoverDude

I assume this mod is compatible with 1.3.1, can't wait to try it out  

Also if it's not could we have an ETA, and how is Konstruction different than KAS/KIS, and can they work together?

Finally how many of your other mods are compatible with that version yet?

Keep up the great work!

[RoverDude]

@Kerbal Pig - all of them

[Aelfhe1m]

2 hours ago, Kerbal Pig said:

how is Konstruction different than KAS/KIS, and can they work together?

They work very well together.

KAS/KIS is a system for allowing Kerbals on EVA to detach, carry and attach parts or small groups of parts from a vessel. By default a Kerbal can move a part massing up to 1000 kg (plus an extra tonne per nearby Kerbal)

Konstruction provides parts for building cranes, gantries, fork-lifts and other construction vehicles that allow you to move around much more massive parts/vessels. Some of the Konstruction parts act as force multipliers for KAS and allow single Kerbals to move 20t or more.

The other main strand of Konstruction is the Konstruction docking ports. These behave like normal docking ports except that once your craft are docked together you can choose to permanently merge them together with the docking ports disappearing in a puff of smoke.

[aviatorEngineer]

For starters, I'm gonna say I'm running KSP version 1.3.1, Konstruction version 0.3.0.0. Having some trouble with the PAL parts and construction docking ports - namely, I can't normally find them in the SPH or VAB, cause the "construction" category's gone missing. If I use the advanced mode and filter by resource, I can find the PAL Counterweight listed under the "rock" resource, and several other parts listed under "electric charge" but I can't find any of the parts in the simple mode menu. So clearly the parts are still installed, but for whatever reason the category's stopped appearing.

The Akita rover and its relevant parts are under the Rovers tab, which also has all the parts for the Lynx and Malemute. This has got me thinking there's some conflict between those mods. Upon restarting the game just now it was brought to my attention that a new version of USI tools is available - currently in the process of backing up my GameData folder so I can try updating that to see if it works.

Anyone else have issues like that, with missing categories in the editor? Fingers crossed it's just the USI tools update that'll fix it.

Edit: Updating USI Tools fixed it. Hope this helps anyone who has had a similar issue.

Edited November 12, 2017 by aviatorEngineer
Correction to previous statement.

[agrock]

Found a solution to welding rooted parts. Engineer on EVA can detach the port, then reattach it to same part. Afterwards the port is no longer a root part. Requires KAS obviously.

I have been told that construction ports and stock docking ports do not cooperate. Just for those who did not know.

Also, what is the part that allows an engineer on EVA to move heavy parts?

[McFortner]

I have been wondering if it's possible to modify the weldable ports so they can dock with regular clamp-o-trons (not weld, just dock for crew transfer?  It bites having to have two types of docking ports on my early station stages to transfer crew.

[Nergal8617]

4 minutes ago, McFortner said:

I have been wondering if it's possible to modify the weldable ports so they can dock with regular clamp-o-trons (not weld, just dock for crew transfer?  It bites having to have two types of docking ports on my early station stages to transfer crew.

Why not just use Konstruction ports all around?  They still work as a regular docking port, you don't have to weld them.

[Wyzard]

On 11/10/2017 at 3:29 PM, Wyzard said:

BTW, I have a Minmus base with several parts supported by Konstruction's PAL cradles, and I just noticed today that I get several log messages every second that say "DragCubeSystem: Rendering procedural drag for PAL.Cradle250".  Is that something that others have seen?  (I don't know if it's a new problem, or if it's been happening for a long time; I don't look at log window very often.)

I've created issue #59 with an attached save that reproduces the problem.

[McFortner]

On 11/18/2017 at 8:01 PM, Nergal8617 said:

Why not just use Konstruction ports all around?  They still work as a regular docking port, you don't have to weld them.

I've tried that, then accidentally welded my ship to the station several times! 

[goldenpsp]

23 minutes ago, McFortner said:

I've tried that, then accidentally welded my ship to the station several times! 

Maybe click slower?

[Nergal8617]

47 minutes ago, McFortner said:

I've tried that, then accidentally welded my ship to the station several times! 

I have to agree with goldenpsp on this one.  Not trying to be mean or rude, but you are choosing to use two different types of port when you don't have to in order to prevent what is ultimately user error.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Nergal8617

[WuphonsReach]

On 11/18/2017 at 3:15 AM, agrock said:

Also, what is the part that allows an engineer on EVA to move heavy parts?

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/Parts-(Konstruction)#pal-part-movers

As long as the PAL mover part is within 12m of the thing you are moving, the kerbal on EVA can just pick the piece up and move it (assuming that you also have KIS and KAS installed).

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/blob/master/FOR_RELEASE/GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/Konstruction/KIS.cfg

The PAL Magnet part is my preference as it allows the kerbal to move up to 10t while EVA'd.  I don't remember if two of the PAL parts stack in their effect (so you can lift 20t) and kerbals can already lift 1t on EVA (total of 21?).  So put two of the PAL magnets on a rover, park it at the job site, move things around with KIS/KAS.

 

[agrock]

9 hours ago, WuphonsReach said:

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/Parts-(Konstruction)#pal-part-movers

As long as the PAL mover part is within 12m of the thing you are moving, the kerbal on EVA can just pick the piece up and move it (assuming that you also have KIS and KAS installed).

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/blob/master/FOR_RELEASE/GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/Konstruction/KIS.cfg

The PAL Magnet part is my preference as it allows the kerbal to move up to 10t while EVA'd.  I don't remember if two of the PAL parts stack in their effect (so you can lift 20t) and kerbals can already lift 1t on EVA (total of 21?).  So put two of the PAL magnets on a rover, park it at the job site, move things around with KIS/KAS.

 

KIS and KAS installed, I have about ~85 addons actually.

But to the point, I am thinking of putting that PAL mover on the nose of my space shuttle so that the shuttle can just "hover" next to the engineer guy when he is reattaching heavy parts on the space station.

Edited November 21, 2017 by agrock

[McFortner]

5 hours ago, Nergal8617 said:

I have to agree with goldenpsp on this one.  Not trying to be mean or rude, but you are choosing to use two different types of port when you don't have to in order to prevent what is ultimately user error.

I also want to use inline and shielded docking ports with them as well.  I'm just kind of funny that way. 

As far as user error, my brain sometimes has trouble keeping up with what the hands are doing.  I'll click close but just a little too close to the button I want and hit something else instead.  Sucks being 50 and all.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by McFortner

[Nergal8617]

43 minutes ago, McFortner said:

I also want to use inline and shielded docking ports with them as well.  I'm just kind of funny that way. 

Well, after looking at the configs for the parts, it is theoretically possible to modify them so they will work with the stock ports; however, I have no idea if doing so would result in some odd behavior or potentially game breaking errors.

[RoverDude]

5 hours ago, McFortner said:

I also want to use inline and shielded docking ports with them as well.  I'm just kind of funny that way. 

As far as user error, my brain sometimes has trouble keeping up with what the hands are doing.  I'll click close but just a little too close to the button I want and hit something else instead.  Sucks being 50 and all.

 

 

The question still remains why.

i.e. what is the specific use case for joining a non-construction port to a construction port?  If you want to do traditional docking, use regular docking ports.  Construction ports are meant to be transient parts used only for the purpose of welding two vessels together permanently.  

Edited November 21, 2017 by RoverDude