0.16: No more x2 time warp?

[rkman]

Let\'s just leave it at 'it\'s not that big of a deal, and we don\'t really need a rage-thread for it', okay?

It was not a rage thread until some people instead of just leaving it at the reason why the feature was removed, started blaming others for wanting 2x warp.

[drwolf]

were not all hardcore space sim players. im lucky if 1 in 5 mun landings end with a successful landing. the landings ar a lot of fun but geting there with aut 2x is tedious. especially when i like to slow burn out of kerbal\'s orbit. but if the game engines can\'t cope with 2x this is all mute. still we need something to replace it.

[closette]

Well I guess I\'m one of the 'impatient' crowd as well (although I am a Mac user and have to wait for the Patcher to be fixed to even get 0.16, grrr...). If x2 warp is so bad, replace it with x3

Practically, leaving the game to run while you go and make tea / check email / whatever isn\'t the best solution since we\'ll either forget to check back in time or will be constantly checking 'are they there yet?'. Aerobraking is one of the cool features of the game and it sounds like it just got a bit more tedious in 0.16.

[Cthulufaic]

Once we get wind and turbulence we will REALLY need to pay attention during an aerobraking procedure so that the capsule doesn\'t shake about and damage the parachute. And on top of this, once RE-entry heat is added then everyone will be glad that 2x warp is gone because it would\'ve probably made landing a pod on Kerbin with a parachute be so much harder! The wind could change and you wouldn\'t of had time to react.

[Spoot Knight]

Okay, so what are you people doing wrong that make reentries take 11 minutes? I\'m calling hardcore BS on this.

At a relatively flat rate of decline, I went from 70Km to touchdown in four minutes. I just did this on one of my launches literally no more than two minutes ago.

It takes longer to establish orbit than it does to make reentry.

[leopardenthusiast]

Okay, so what are you people doing wrong that make reentries take 11 minutes? I\'m calling hardcore BS on this.

At a relatively flat rate of decline, I went from 70Km to touchdown in four minutes. I just did this on one of my launches literally no more than two minutes ago.

It takes longer to establish orbit than it does to make reentry.

It takes ESPECIALLY long to get into orbit if you keep your thrust as low as possible while still accelerating upwards... the reward is saving a bunch of fuel, so it\'s worth it.

[RayneCloud]

Cool way to address a customer\'s complaint, mate.

It\'s not addressing a complaint, it\'s giving my opinion. I\'m not customer service my friend, I don\'t get paid and neither does the rest of the mod team. I\'m a volunteer just like every other green and blue on these forums. There are several very good reasons why time warp in atmo is gone, some of them...will be obvious later down the line.

[Shadownailshot]

I actually hardly ever used the 2x warp. I enjoyed having the higher level of control over my ship on leaving and re-entering the atmosphere. Especially since most of my ships are spaceplanes of sorts, usually SSTO. They\'re very hard to control on re-entry, I tried it on 2x (because I was impatience), and I blew it up in a ball of fire. It\'s not bothering me in the slightest bit that it\'s gone . The 100,000x makes me hope that another planet is coming soon, but I will wait and see. As far as whoever said something about 'nobody orbits the sun' or something... I do that quite often. Attempting to practice for when planets ARE added. i want to get an idea of what trajectories I will need to make it.

[Vostok]

Once re-entry effects are in, you\'ll forget about the 2x warp on re-entry. It\'ll be too damn cool to watch your pod either plough through the atmosphere or explode in a massive trailing fireball.

[Naiba]

Would be less painful if you could leave a ship to land by itself the moment you stage its parachute.

[Endeavour]

Okay, so what are you people doing wrong that make reentries take 11 minutes? I\'m calling hardcore BS on this.

At a relatively flat rate of decline, I went from 70Km to touchdown in four minutes. I just did this on one of my launches literally no more than two minutes ago.

It takes longer to establish orbit than it does to make reentry.

From a low orbit, burn retrograde until you periapsis is at 30km. It is a relatively comfortable reentry because the Gs never go above 2. And it takes around eleven minutes.

[antbin]

would it be possible to make some tradeoff like 'leave delta_t x1 , but make as many calculations per second as you can, even lowering FPS\'. You know, something like TURBO mode. So the actual TURBO speed up would depend on computer speed, without changing physics.

This seems technically possible and possibly a good idea?

Certainly I miss 2x warp, if only because long distance atmospheric flights are now super dead boring. Not that they were the 'point' of KSP, but they were fun. Also, spaceplane re-entry from orbit is now an even more tedious process.

[KevinTMC]

However tedious being stuck on x1 speed may be, it\'s not half as tedious as most Internet arguments.

It\'s alpha software; inconveniences are to be expected. We can survive the loss of x2 for now, since keeping it would cause worse problems. And I personally rather enjoy keeping a book close at hand, catching up on my reading when tedious things need to be waited out.

But on the other hand, we don\'t have to pretend that unaccelerable tedium is a virtue either. It simply is what it is: a minor, for-now-unavoidable inconvenience.

[Capt'n Skunky]

Back in my day we didn\'t have ANY warp.

Damn kids! Now get offa mah lawn!

;P

Cheers!

Capt\'n Skunky

KSP Community Manager

[Reflector]

Might I put in a suggestion for a variable warp setting? 'Old Warp Speeds' ticked = 2x retained, 100k x removed. Untick for 100k warp but no 2x. No GUI assets changed but there will be new lines of code there and a setting.

[Shadownailshot]

Might I put in a suggestion for a variable warp setting? 'Old Warp Speeds' ticked = 2x retained, 100k x removed. Untick for 100k warp but no 2x. No GUI assets changed but there will be new lines of code there and a setting.

I don\'t know any code, but that doesn\'t sound as simple... as it sounds?

[Reflector]

You\'ll end up with two trees of code plus a variable (See: 'oldWarpSpeeds == true;') that splits you between making the time warp variables from the old and new modes. Tie your warp speed indication text to each tree.

Unless you want to imply making graphical assets is easier than that.

[silent_prtoagonist]

Back in my day we didn\'t have ANY warp.

Damn kids! Now get offa mah lawn!

;P

Cheers!

Capt\'n Skunky

KSP Community Manager

Haha you beat me to it, Skunky.

Seriously, try waiting in real time for half an hour watching the altitude and vertical speed indicators tick by, just to see what your apogee and perigee will be, and then come and talk to me about long waits. TBH I never really used 2x all that much anyway, it\'s wasn\'t really enough of a difference to satisfy my impatience (if it\'s gonna take 'several minutes' to do at 1x, it\'s still gonna take 'several minutes' at 2x) and caused too many problems, especially in atmosphere.

That said, it would be nice if there was maybe a way to enter 'reduced physics mode' at 5 or 10x, say treat craft as rigid bodies, and maybe still lock orientation, but apply external forces such as engines or aerodynamics. That\'d cut down a lot on the calculations that have to be done. It\'d probably not as simple as that, but it might be doable...

[KevinTMC]

Obviously, Skunky is a young whipper-snapper. Growing up without any warp? Ha! Spoiled brats!

In my day, we grew up with negative warp. And turning it on was compulsory, as you walked to and from school, uphill both ways...

[Bluejayek]

Oh, that must be why we got 100000x warp.

100,000x time warp was not to make it into a \'superaction\' game. It was to make yearlong + missions bearable. On 10,000 time warp 1 year gametime is ~1 hour, 100,000x cuts it to 6 minutes which is huge, not this little 6 mintues on re-entry you are discussing.

The longest mission I did in 0.15 was a bielliptic transfer to reverse kerbin orbit; I went out to around 200 billion meters for a flight time of around 7 years. Realtime it was about 6 hours on 10,000 time warp. Flying a similar mission in 0.16 took me a total of around an hour, hardly \'superaction fast\' but much more bearable. There are things to do in kerbol orbit without planets, and I am very happy squad made them bearable. Now if the kraken would just go away....

[s20dan]

OH well it\'s a shame, but I\'m sure Squad will make it up with some nifty atmospheric effects.

But, if the problem was related to atmospheric flight, why not just stop timewarp in an atmosphere? X2 was useful on and around the Mun, other than that I only really used it occasionally with aircraft.

[CobraA1]

x2 just seemed buggy to me, and the new warp should make future interplanetary missions easier.

If you\'re approaching Kerbin with very little fuel after a mun mission, perhaps it\'s time to rethink your setup and/or strategy? I just did a Minimus mission and had plenty of fuel on the return trip. Using the small capsule, at least. My next plan is to try the larger three man capsule. That might be tougher, since you have to pretty much use the large parts exclusively.

The new parts make it a lot easier to have plenty of fuel - I\'ve found that the large rockets with their large tanks can actually haul a lot of weight. Should be able to bring plenty of fuel with you into space now. At the very least, the small one man capsule is easy to take pretty much anywhere you want.

[N10do64]

You\'ll end up with two trees of code plus a variable (See: 'oldWarpSpeeds == true;') that splits you between making the time warp variables from the old and new modes. Tie your warp speed indication text to each tree.

Unless you want to imply making graphical assets is easier than that.

So put a removed feature back in, when the entire dev team felt that it was a broken feature?

[Randox]

Can\'t say I really miss it. I never flew with it on because it was super buggy, and it was way too slow for coasting. Not sure why people would descend from 70km without warping a few times, unless that\'s part of the high precision aiming process. I normally go in and out of x10 warp or higher to keep my speed and orientation under control as needed. I only do maybe the last 30km fully powered, and that\'s more than long enough for me.

[ElectroxSoldier]

How about allow 5x speed in reentry until you hit 15000 or 10000, it\'s about then it\'s necessary for real time, since terrain is alot closer.

Cause yeah, I do a reentry with a Periapsis of 30k, making it in around 10 to 11 minutes, I tend to enter that way because there\'s way less G-Force, and it\'s unrealistic to re-enter at higher than 3 or 5 G, even though the kerbals are pretty resistant since G Force consequences aren\'t added yet, but when they will, EVERYONE will be waiting 11 minutes.

On the other hand, I hated x2, not for reentry, but for takeoff, but I hardly used it since I found a way for fast rockets that still can go anywhere, it\'s call fuel savings.

But yeah, maybe some people are impatient because they might not have the time for it, getting food and coming back to see your kerbals K.I.A. isn\'t very cool either.

Either some form of speeding up the long reentry is added, or SQUAD slap us with a huge feature called, Weather, reentry heat. THEN, we would never even think of speeding up, because things get way, more, tricky.