Wind Tunnel/Aerodynamics analysis

[p1t1o]

I would love to see a feature which displays some pretty data about whatever craft you are building before you go to the launchpad.

In my head the initial concept looks like this:

Perhaps it is an option in the VAB/SPH to toggle, but it could be cool if it was its own seperate building (I mean there already IS a wind tunnel at KSC!).

Anyhoo, you would load your vessel, as you do, and could toggle on various overlays. A major one would essentially be an extension of the aero overlays we have now, but with some sweet fluid-dynamics-based visualisations.

Im not sure exactly how accurate this "fluid dynamics" needs to be, like I say, more like a graphical extension of the overlays we have now, but in a pre-launch phase.

Even if the data displayed was quite simplistic, as long as it was illustrative and pretty I think it would be a worthwhile/fun feature.

I know that some information is just not available, for example Im fairly sure that KSP does not compute the movement of air as the craft moves through it, just the effects of virtual air on your craft, but you could still probably extract some useful/pretty graphics. 

A very simple model could simply be a room in the KSC where you can see the usual simple overlays of your craft, but as you manual rotate the craft to expose it to airflow from different directions.

This would be prefereable to having to load to launch every time for a round of trial/error.

  

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Gaarst]

We still don't have basic and essential information displayed on vessel view (apo, peri...) or dV readouts anywhere, and you're asking for a wind tunnel simulating airflow?

Priorities 

Edited October 20, 2016 by Gaarst

[p1t1o]

28 minutes ago, Gaarst said:

We still don't have basic and essential information displayed on vessel view (apo, peri...) or dV readouts anywhere, and you're asking for a wind tunnel simulating airflow?

Priorities 

Your objection....is DENIED

 

[Gaarst]

48 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Your objection....is DENIED

 

Not saying this is not a good idea. I'm just saying Squad has its own sense of priorities. I wouldn't be surprised if this was added while we're still missing basic stuff.

[Tex_NL]

A basic wind tunnel should not be that hard.

All you need is the same aerodynamic overlay we already have in flight, a slider that regulates wind speed, an option to rotate your craft and finally the option to completely let go and allow the craft to find its own orientation.

So basically everything you need is already available in the game. It just needs to be combined in a slightly different matter.

[Kerbonaut257]

This would indeed be cool. But as some others have said, entirely unnecessary for stock.

Things like knowing dV is infinitely more useful and also not in stock. 

A wind tunnel isn't TOO hard to simulate anyway. Strap a ton of boosters on it, launch it straight up, and see what happens on the way up & on the way down. Then just revert to editor when done

[p1t1o]

 

15 hours ago, Kerbonaut257 said:

A wind tunnel isn't TOO hard to simulate anyway. Strap a ton of boosters on it, launch it straight up, and see what happens on the way up & on the way down. Then just revert to editor when done

And dV isnto TOO hard to calculate manually

Less talk of what is "necessary"  and this dV nonsense! Yes stock KSP could use a dV readout, but this is the wrong thread if you are interested in that.

If KSP only contained what is necessary, well, I think it would be a lot less of a game. It would have far fewer parts for one thing. No eastereggs. The KSC models would look like poop etc. etc.

And a wind tunnel might actually be of use to some people.

 

19 hours ago, Tex_NL said:

...the option to completely let go and allow the craft to find its own orientation.

Didn't even think of that, even better!

[RatchetinSpace]

What if we did this:

Load a craft in the wind tunnel, either via the KSC screen or as a button inside the VAB/SPH
When it loads your craft is loaded inside a wind-tunnel like it is being launched, however it is unable to move within the chamber.

You can fire-up the engines and indicators (like those toggleable with F12) show acceleration in m/s2, and the total burn time and delta V of said stage. You can also test staging.

The wind tunnel would have toggles which adjust to different planets and altitudes. You can only access these toggles if you have taken the relevant measurements with Science modules (pressure readings in Eve's upper atmosphere for example would unlock the Eve's upper atmosphere setting). The toggles could toggle pressure, speed and gravity, to simulate any scenario you can think of.

Using the wind tunnel would take only a fraction of the funds of launching a real rocket, allowing players to test their designs before launching them for real. Of-course, a wind tunnel would not test a craft to its full extent, but it would give the players a rough idea of what to expect, as well as crucial information like Delta V, Thurst to weight raito, etc, as well as allow players to test their crafts in simulated other-worldly conditions before sending them there for real.

Just a few thoughts, I think a wind tunnel would be tricky to implement, however the game would benefit greatly from its addition.

[Alexander Siregar]

If Anyone Want To Make Wind Tunnel Make It Yourself!!!!!!!!!11 You Can't Just Waiting A People To Load A Wind Tunnel Vessel! I'm Is Building WindTunnel In KSP Using Blender!!! I Tell If I Done!!!!!

[Alexander Siregar]

My Plane Is To Build It Using Blender And After That I Cannot Use Propeller To Make A Wind i don't Wanna To Use KAX Mod The Propeller Is Not Producing Wind. So I Gonna Use Whishplash TurboRamjet Engine I Produced Smoke The Smoke Actualy Gonna Test The Plane That I Merge In The SPH Strengh Streng To How Many M/S (Meter Per Second) That The Plane Can Hold And The Afterburning TurboFan At Below The Plane With Afterburning Engine And It's Gonna Test The Plane Temperature Can Hold. And Make Sure There Are No Kerbal At The Tested Plane! I Gonna Tell When It's Done!

[The_Rocketeer]

On 16/12/2016 at 11:42 PM, Alexander Siregar said:

My Plane Is To Build It Using Blender And After That I Cannot Use Propeller To Make A Wind i don't Wanna To Use KAX Mod The Propeller Is Not Producing Wind. So I Gonna Use Whishplash TurboRamjet Engine I Produced Smoke The Smoke Actualy Gonna Test The Plane That I Merge In The SPH Strengh Streng To How Many M/S (Meter Per Second) That The Plane Can Hold And The Afterburning TurboFan At Below The Plane With Afterburning Engine And It's Gonna Test The Plane Temperature Can Hold. And Make Sure There Are No Kerbal At The Tested Plane! I Gonna Tell When It's Done!

Is this a troll?

[swjr-swis]

1 hour ago, The_Rocketeer said:

Is this a troll?

Has to be. Why else would he leave two words in that entire post uncapitalized? Cruel...

[The_Rocketeer]

2 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

Has to be. Why else would he leave two words in that entire post uncapitalized? Cruel...

Is this a troll? I genuinely cannot tell. vOv

[p1t1o]

10 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

Is this a troll? I genuinely cannot tell. vOv

I dont think so, he PM'd me something similar about it in case I was interested, and there is a youtube channel. I think there is a language barrier at work here.

Im not sure but I think he is saying that he is building a craft in the VAB that when "launched" will perform some kind of wind tunnel function?

Its not exactly what I was getting at in the OP, but if he can produce something interesting Im all ears (eyes?).

Edited December 20, 2016 by p1t1o

[GoSlash27]

The problem with a wind tunnel is that KSP doesn't model airflow. You can get lift and drag data like what's available in the aero overlay, but that's about it.

Best,
-Slashy

[monstah]

1 hour ago, GoSlash27 said:

The problem with a wind tunnel is that KSP doesn't model airflow. You can get lift and drag data like what's available in the aero overlay, but that's about it.

Best,
-Slashy

Which is already something, but we can't see it in the design phase. What I envision is somewhat like @Tex_NL said: an UI to adjust your attitude and mach number, and it shows you aero forces (and torque, if possible).

[Wjolcz]

8 minutes ago, monstah said:

Which is already something, but we can't see it in the design phase. What I envision is somewhat like @Tex_NL said: an UI to adjust your attitude and mach number, and it shows you aero forces (and torque, if possible).

A whole room dedicated to this kind of thing +spring testing (by adjusting a gravity slider) would be pretty useful.

[Tex_NL]

54 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

A whole room dedicated to this kind of thing +spring testing (by adjusting a gravity slider) would be pretty useful.

A separate building would be nice but I prefer to see it integrated into the SPH. Switching back and forth between the SPH and a wind tunnel to make minor adjustments would get very tedious very quickly.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Tex_NL

[GoSlash27]

1 hour ago, monstah said:

Which is already something, but we can't see it in the design phase. What I envision is somewhat like @Tex_NL said: an UI to adjust your attitude and mach number, and it shows you aero forces (and torque, if possible).

I wouldn't mind it. I'd also like a pressure center indication.

[Alexander Siregar]

Yes Is True The Wind Tunnel Does Not Make Aerodynamic Overlay(F12) I Not Sure If There Are The Mod!

 

Visit My Youtube Channel :https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg-pt7vRmTrYfA4uVqX51kQ

 

And Subcribe If You Like And For More Videos And Aircraft

 

I Already Contact KSP Developers VIA Email And I Tell To Make A Mod About Wind Tunnel!

 

THIS IS NOT A TROLLLLLL!!!!!!!

 

So Please Don't Ask Is This A TROLLLLL!!!

[Arugela]

I don't think wind tunnels are uneeded for stock. The point of a wind tunnel like design at it's core is that it reveals what is there. So it is a needed thing to understand what stock is like any thing else you mod in. It's helps understand what you are looking at and using. It is really essential. What it needs to do is help us reveal each patch what it going on and the changes or the designs we choose. It doesn't matter what version we play it is always something needed. And something drastically missing atm. And there could be several ways to implement this.

 

And like others have said it could be used to do all the other stuff we can't do in VAB/SPH. It would/could be great for fine tuning craft etc. I want this more than anything else in the game. Even performance gains. And I love performance gains. It is the single reason I keep stopping playing because of frustration over design issues. I can't stand testing and guessing with every design change from actual flight. It is monstrously time consuming and annoying. My time is the most precious thing. And this does not automate my design. It enables me to work on my design more. which is what I want to do. I want to be able to understand it fully and do the best I can on it. That requires numbers/values and analysis in a way that is actually helpful and convenient. I would be much farther along if this stuff already existed.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Arugela

[Alexander Siregar]

4 hours ago, Arugela said:

I don't think wind tunnels are uneeded for stock. The point of a wind tunnel like design at it's core is that it reveals what is there. So it is a needed thing to understand what stock is like any thing else you mod in. It's helps understand what you are looking at and using. It is really essential. What it needs to do is help us reveal each patch what it going on and the changes or the designs we choose. It doesn't matter what version we play it is always something needed. And something drastically missing atm. And there could be several ways to implement this.

 

And like others have said it could be used to do all the other stuff we can't do in VAB/SPH. It would/could be great for fine tuning craft etc. I want this more than anything else in the game. Even performance gains. And I love performance gains. It is the single reason I keep stopping playing because of frustration over design issues. I can't stand testing and guessing with every design change from actual flight. It is monstrously time consuming and annoying. My time is the most precious thing. And this does not automate my design. It enables me to work on my design more. which is what I want to do. I want to be able to understand it fully and do the best I can on it. That requires numbers/values and analysis in a way that is actually helpful and convenient. I would be much farther along if this stuff already existed.

Yes, But For Knowing The Aerodynamic Overlay On The Plane That's The Needed Stock!

[p1t1o]

21 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

The problem with a wind tunnel is that KSP doesn't model airflow. You can get lift and drag data like what's available in the aero overlay, but that's about it.

Best,
-Slashy

Which would be more than enough for it to be a useful feature, if you get to see the data [for different orientations] before heading to the launchpad. Being able to see how drag changes on different parts of a craft whilst you rotate it can give you a much better "feel" for its properties than a table of raw numbers like what you get from FAR - meaning no offence to that amazing and irrelplaceable mod.

[Alexander Siregar]

I Don't Think So