KSP Caveman Challenge 1.2

[Moesly_Armlis]

KSP Caveman Challenge 1.2

Facilities upgrades are forbidden

Crappy runway and launchpad

Part count of thirty and vehicle mass limit of 18.0 tonne

No fancy patched conics, no maneuver nodes or no Deep Space Network

Abhorrent fear of technology as primitive as can be

Acquire 1188 Science Points to unlock twenty nodes of the technology tree.

 

Rules:

Stock career mode

Include pictures of your Science Archives

No mods that alter game play

No cheat menus or any other shenanigans

 

Science Points have many sources just detail the method for the majority of Science Points acquired.

 

The Original KSP Caveman Challenge that GoSlash27 began and the KSP Caveman Challenge 1.1 are excellent resources.

 

Badge Of Honour

pending

Cave Wall

pending

My attempt on hard settings

Spoiler

with modified antenna settings; Signal for Control and Plasma Blackout.

The usual beginning with Jeb and Bob going to explore around KSC.  The beach is always a great place to visit, so Jeb carefully rolls the vessel over there.  Bob enjoys washing the sand off the science equipment in the water.

Jeb then went for an orbit around Kerbin and returned.  Some additional science was completed in the grasslands.  Then followed up with a fly-by of Mun with additional science completed in the highlands and mountains.

 A science rover was created then Bill and Bob went gathering all the science around the KSC facility.

Communication failure was the cause and three probes crashed. A fourth Communication failure occurred during a circularization burn and resulted in depleting the fuel tanks and a probe that is now off towards Moho. 

The program then switched to establishing an early communication network.  Science packages were attached to the communication satellite and returned science from space as well as from other biomes.  A satellite was positioned into orbit under contract then moved to 2.8 Mm circular orbit over the KSC facility.  Satellites were also sent to Mun and a communication relay satellite remained in orbit.

The lifter implemented a pair of Thuds with bamboo style drop tanks.  This style lifter was used throughout the rest of the career with alterations being made to the number of drop tanks. 

Payloads with increased part count required the drop tanks to be combined.  This resulted in four failures resulting from COM and COL issues due to the mid lifter placement of the Thuds.  Easy fix was disable gimbal on the Thuds until lower drop tanks were staged.

Landings on Mun were completed using probes after a rendezvous in low Kerbin orbit with additional fuel tanks.  A communication satellite was launched along with the fuel tanks to provide additional coverage for the scrappy communication network.

The science was returned using the Science Container and a pair of MK12-R parachutes. The science package is dropped to reduce weight.  The lander achieved orbit around Mun and the container was decoupled with a trajectory for Kerbin atmosphere at a 40 km altitude.  This style of landing was repeated three times and once for Minmus. 

The Science Container took considerable abuse on the way home from Minmus.  Entering steeply into the atmosphere with a velocity of 3223 m/s the container's g-force meter was pinned into the red zone and was roasted thoroughly by the plasma. 

The chutes pooped opened and it splashed down safely just off the coast of the Kerbal Space Centre.  Two hundred fifty seven science points were returned and the remaining technology nodes were acquired.

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2016 by MoeslyArmlis

[Mattasmack]

Thanks for starting this thread!  I thought I'd try the Caveman Challenge while waiting on mods to update (Kerbalism, mostly) and I just finished up.  Normal difficulty, 100% stock.

I didn't remember to take many screenshots during the playthrough, hopefully there's enough documentation there.  I started with contracts and crewed flights around Kerbin (and one flyby of Mun), and dinked around a bit to try out planes and the new science canister thing.  But I got most of my science from probes to Minmus and finally a rover to Mun that all transmitted their results home rather than returning.

Imgur album here.

This was fun and a nice change of pace, but it was getting a little tedious by the end and so I'm not tempted to have a go again at a higher difficulty setting.

[GoSlash27]

Finally getting around to Caveman for 1.2.

This is my status at the end of the first day:

http://s52.photobucket.com/user/GoSlash27/slideshow/KSP/Caveman challenge/120

Check out the mission flag

All difficulty settings are default.

 

Best,
-Slashy

[Moesly_Armlis]

"Unga Bunga"

Ya!

Ugh!

 

Ahh! that reminds me of something.

The Caveman Translator

Spoiler

Plot

Atouk (Starr) is a bullied and scrawny caveman living in "One Zillion BC – October 9th".^[1] He lusts after the beautiful but shallow Lana (Bach), who is the mate of Tonda (Matuszak), their tribe's physically imposing bullying leader. After being banished along with his friend Lar (Quaid), Atouk falls in with a band of assorted misfits, among them the comely Tala (Long) and the elderly blind man Gog (Gilford). The group has ongoing encounters with hungry dinosaurs, and rescues Lar from a "nearby ice age", where they encounter an abominable snowman. In the course of these adventures they discover sedative drugs, fire, invent cooking, music, weapons, and learn how to walk fully upright. Atouk uses these advancements to lead an attack on Tonda, overthrowing him and becoming the tribe's new leader. He rejects Lana and takes Tala as his mate, and they live happily ever after.

The film's dialog is almost entirely in "caveman" language, such as:

• "alunda" – love
• "bobo" – friend
• "haraka" – fire
• "macha" – monster
• "aiyee" – help
• "ya" – yes
• "nya" – no/not
• "ool" – food
• "pooka" – broken/pain
• "ugh" – like
• "zug zug" – sex/mate
• "kuda" – come
• "caca" – excrements
• "guwi" – out to get
• "gluglu" – drowned

 

So I was trying to come up with an new badge idea.  I thought maybe to kerbilze our beloved Captain Cavey, but the image was some how not forming too well and what was imagined would certainly of been the seed of nightmares.

The Mission Flag looks great!

 

@Mattasmack Welcome to the cave. The rover wheels are a new addition to a cavemans toolbox.  I am glad to see that you have made use of them.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by MoeslyArmlis

[ManEatingApe]

Finally decided it was time to (cave) man up, and attempt the challenge on Hard mode, with the twist of attempting to do it using as few launches as possible. Re-using and improving upon the some of the designs from a previous Moderate difficulty attempt proved helpful, and after much practice, 6 missions were needed in total.

The first 3 missions were fairly standard, however the last 3 missions involved some delicate teamwork between Jeb and Valentina to construct a space train to Minimus. Using probes probably could have saved a mission, but felt much less Kerbal (and frankly I wanted an excuse to make another space train!)

Mission 1: Escape the atmosphere

Spoiler

The design was improved by moving all the goo containers onto the Mk1 pod, as previously when landing on solid ground the Flea tended to explode scattering the precious science. 

After launching, instead of heading east to splash into the sea the final stage was pointed west instead in order to land in the highlands or mountains near the KSC. This was to squeeze a few extra science out of the Kerbin biomes, as subsequent missions were likely to land in the sea.

Contracts: Launch our first vessel, Escape the atmosphere, Gather scientific data from Kerbin

Nodes Unlocked: Basic Rocketry, Engineering 101, General Rocketry, Survivability

Mission 2: Orbit Kerbin

Spoiler

The design was improved by moving the goo canister to the top of the pod and using a radial parachute instead. This protected the delicate canister during re-entry (crucial with no quicksave/quickload) and allowed a steeper re-entry profile.

There was just enough fuel to get above the crucial high Kerbin threshold (250km)

Contracts: Orbit Kerbin

Nodes unlocked: Advanced Rocketry, Basic Science

Mission 3: To the Mun and back

Spoiler

A fresh design for the Hard difficulty level - the 60% science rewards (versus 90% on Moderate) meant that progressing through the tech tree was much slower, and the previous design no longer sufficed.

Valentina took over from Jeb in order to gain some 1 star pilot experience, the prograde/retrograde hold ability would prove useful in subsequent missions. 

Contracts: Explore the Mun (flyby), Explore the Mun (orbit)

Nodes Unlocked: Stability, Aviation, Miniaturization

Missions 4 - 6: Space Train to Minimus

Spoiler

This was the fun part!

First Jeb flew the locomotive into an 80km x 80km Kerbin orbit.

Next Valentina flew 2 supply missions, bringing essential scientific equipment and snacks into orbit, and after some patience successfully docked with the locomotive. Valentina re-entered safely after each mission.

Then Jeb drove the train to Minimus and pottered about the surface collecting science from various biomes. There was some extra fuel left over so a quick peek into Kerbol orbit also gathered some bonus science (though this was surplus to requirements).

Since these videos are a little long (~25 min each), I've split them into two parts, the space train assembly and the actual mission to Minimus itself. Also provided is a table of contents so you can skip to the good parts!

 

• 1st supply mission launch 2:20
• 1st supply mission rendezvous 7:55
• 2nd supply mission launch 13:40
• 2nd supply mission rendezvous and final assembly 21:30

 

• Lining up Minimus rendezvous 2:55
• Minimus Landing 13:00
• Science gathering/ditching used up equipment 16:45
• Into Kerbol orbit 22:10
• Unwanted close encounter with the Mun 26:50
• Re-entry 28:00

Contracts: None

Nodes unlocked: All remaining

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by ManEatingApe

[Atubara]

I can draw up design for the new badge, if anyone would like it. Is there anything I should consider?

Edited October 30, 2016 by Atubara

[Atubara]

http://imgur.com/a/C9DKK

If it loads correctly. I made it in MS Paint so I couldn't use the text very well.

[Moesly_Armlis]

@ManEatingApe That first launch vehicle made me do a quadruple take.

That was an impressive first launch!

Why though were girders used?

 

The Mun space science exploration was also neatly done.  Great  job on the return trajectory your video could be a caveman training film on how to get to Mun and back.

 

Something I am noticing about increasing the difficulty; the missions become unmistakably kerbal. 

My recent travels gathering science using the extreme hard settings.  The challenge often brings new experiences.

Spoiler

Try setting the Kerbal G Limits and move the slider to the left.  If you do not laugh after launching a few kerbals than you are not playing kerbal space program.

 

Finding the KSC Main antenna by using signal strength and triangulation.

Who Buried the Main antenna 5 metre beneath the Crawlerway?  No wonder why we have krappy signal strength.

 

Traversing in the long cold dark nights of the northern parts of kerbal.

 

 

A new discovery was made in the great white north.

The Northern Ice Shelf and Ice Caps Biomes.

All caveman eventually learn to EVA in space.

"Is this safe?" asked Bob.

\

The radiator panels do not keep a kerbal cool.

Progressing the idea of a kerbal EVA to space and after many iterations the introduction of the streamlined, non encumbered, with having state of the art stowage doors and capable of traversing to Mun, completely safe and practical; the Hornswaggle.

In previous versions the service bay was used to safely stow a kerbal and now they spaghettfiy.

I was quite surprised when testing fuel flow and the radial attached FLT-100 was able to deliver fuel to the engine.

 

Bob was sent into orbit around Mun. 

There he had rendezvous with Val to complete the materials science and obtain the EVA science.

I am almost to the docking ports which is a key strategy. 

The ability to construct in LKO or on the ground allows landing a recyclable science vessel on Mun. 

Bob is integral to those missions.  His EVA pack is almost used up though and will need to return to a command pod and then return to kerbal.

Science around Minmus will have to be done next.  I was holding off till completing land on Mun contract.  The use of a probe would have been used to land on Mun but now the signal strength is very weak.  Testing of a relay network will have to be completed.

This trial is showing promise and I am looking forward to going at this without any saving and without KER.  I had not used saves until sending kerbals to EVA in space and used revert to experiment with different vessel designs.

 

 

 

On 10/30/2016 at 4:11 PM, Atubara said:

http://imgur.com/a/C9DKK

If it loads correctly. I made it in MS Paint so I couldn't use the text very well.

That is bedrock fashion at its finest.  My scary idea had a kerbal covered head to toe in hair similar to Cavey. 

Now I am thinking of pairing Cavey with your KSP caveman.  Maybe the two of them standing triumphantly on Mun.

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by MoeslyArmlis

[ManEatingApe]

2 hours ago, MoeslyArmlis said:

Why though were girders used?

Interestingly, the heat flow model now transfers heat to adjacent parts so effectively that without the girder the 5 lowest fleas can soak up all the abuse from the next stage without exploding. The girders are necessary to ensure a clean and rapid separation.

2 hours ago, MoeslyArmlis said:

Progressing the idea of a kerbal EVA to space and after many iterations the introduction of the streamlined, non encumbered, with having state of the art stowage doors and capable of traversing to Mun, completely safe and practical; the Hornswaggle.
Bob is integral to those missions.  His EVA pack is almost used up though and will need to return to a command pod and then return to kerbal.

Nice progress on the toughest of tough settings. Great ship name and I laughed out loud at Bob peering nervously out from his corral.

[rocketbuilder]

Challenge accepted and what is plasma blackout?

[ManEatingApe]

13 hours ago, rocketbuilder said:

Challenge accepted and what is plasma blackout?

Plasma blackout models this real world effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_blackout#Spacecraft_reentry

In a nutshell, you'll lose full probe control during the toasty part of re-entry (whenever heat effects are shown).

You'll regain control once your craft slows down enough or hits the ground, whichever comes first 

[rocketbuilder]

Ok, but don't you get reentry effects during launch also, won't that make unmanned launches impossible?

[ManEatingApe]

1 hour ago, rocketbuilder said:

Ok, but don't you get reentry effects during launch also, won't that make unmanned launches impossible?

It only seems to trigger during re-entry. Just to test I stuck a probe core on the craft below and it remained controllable during ascent.

But I would say that if you're getting heat effects during your launch, then you might want to lower your TWR to avoid losing too much fuel to drag.

Edited November 1, 2016 by ManEatingApe

[rocketbuilder]

You get heat effects in your second stage going about 1600 m/s, I doubt my terrier has too much twr.

[ManEatingApe]

3 hours ago, rocketbuilder said:

You get heat effects in your second stage going about 1600 m/s, I doubt my terrier has too much twr.

You should still be safe from control loss. For testing purposes I slapped a probe on top of my Caveman designs.

No matter what I tried I couldn't get the probe to lose control during ascent. Even when the probe exploded from overheating it still retained full control until that point!

[GoSlash27]

 

End of day 2. I'm running out of science to collect from Kerbin, but my Munar flyby probes are almost there.

http://s52.photobucket.com/user/GoSlash27/slideshow/KSP/Caveman challenge/120/Day2

They've got to survive reentry if I hope to complete this challenge quickly.

Best,
-Slashy

 

[rocketbuilder]

Slash, those probes don't look aerodynamically stable lol...

[GoSlash27]

8 hours ago, rocketbuilder said:

Slash, those probes don't look aerodynamically stable lol...

rocketbuilder,

Only the skinny part above the decoupler is returned, and it's *definitely* stable.
The part I'm worried about is the okto probe core overheating. The corners stick out past the ablator and they do catch heat.

I ran the math to see if I can get by with just transmitting the science back, and it comes up about 100 points short. I have no choice but to cross my fingers and do it.

 Best,
-Slashy

[rocketbuilder]

I meant that the top probe doesn't look aerodynamically stable (I've used probes like that before and they went...)

[ManEatingApe]

@GoSlash27 You should be fine - even if the probe core melts, as long as the parachute is staged it will still open, and the Science container is extremely heat resistant. (unless of course you need the core for recovery bonus or contract fulfillment).

[GoSlash27]

1 hour ago, rocketbuilder said:

I meant that the top probe doesn't look aerodynamically stable (I've used probes like that before and they went...)

rocketbuilder,

 I know what you mean. This design tumbled pretty badly at first. I fixed it

Best,
-Slashy

[rocketbuilder]

Can I have an insight on how you got those probes stable? I just lost  one from minus.

[GoSlash27]

3 minutes ago, rocketbuilder said:

Can I have an insight on how you got those probes stable? I just lost  one from minus.

rocketbuilder,

 It just so happens I made a post about it.

Happy science-ing!
-Slashy

[Moesly_Armlis]

That there is an excellent guide, I have always had trouble with re-entry of an un -balanced load.  Thanks @GoSlash27!

 

Another tip I can offer is using the COM tool and then translate a part.  The arrows now grow when zooming out.  Something got foxed because previous this was always a problem to line up the COM with the COT.  The go to space with a Thud challenge is where I can remember having problems.

 

Use COM and COT tools and Part Translate to align them. 

Zooming out increases the Part Translation arrows to reach the COM ball.

Spoiler

Sometimes adjust the viewing angle upwards to have the green arrow point up rather than down.

 

 

Another tip I have just stumbled on deals with the contract conundrum.

Spoiler

The Extrreme Hard career was going well but decided to restart the career

With an EH career the funding is minimal and doing Science from Kerbin Space contracts are the most lucrative.

Having negative one thousand reputation is not that bad.  Declining contracts has no effect.  Earning a nest egg before working on reputation is how I do it.

Now these contracts for science in space no longer just appear after declining a few contracts.  The opposite occurs and the contract never appear.  

The fix was to complete some contracts to allow the Science from Space to appear.  Now this is where I learned how to complete contracts so easy.

Decline contracts until there are contracts for parts that can be recycled for another contract.  Landed and splashed only.

Then send something like this Frankenstein monster onto the launch pad.

The engines can all be staged and new contracts will be completed upon focusing on the vessel. 

So from Mission Control to Launch Pad and the engine test will auto complete. Just remember to not recover the vessel. 

The heat shields use run test so can be recycled over and over.

The same vessel can be sent to the beach and the splashed contracts can be repeated over and over again.  Even mix contracts that have landed and splashed.  Use the "[" to change vessel focus and contract is completed automagically.

The Science From Space contracts are completed in between the other contracts. 

This is a Science From Space Farm. 

Each of those goo containers is then collected for each SFS contract that appears.

This is the vessel that plants the farm.

 

Once the nest egg is accumulated then mission mindset is now on reputation.  The High G adventures are the easiest to complete and reputation is increased quickly just spending fuel cost as the vessel recovers 100% on the launch pad.  Straight up to pass out the tourist and then pop chutes and down to the launch pad.

This approach certainly reduces the grind.

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by MoeslyArmlis

[Moesly_Armlis]

Another example of kerbal engineering and "we can build it" thinking at its finest.  Just needs duct tape.

New fuel flow allows the lander to use the FLT-100 as landing legs.  The tanks are already dry and were used during ascent.  The lander has a full FLT-200 with roughly 1200 m/s delta V budget and is cutting it quite close.

Docking ports?  We don't need no stinking docking ports!

Well in fact that is the next node I am trying to unlock. With docking ports the EH career becomes less grinding and more constructing.

Limited technology and no contract to explore Minmus determined this mission profile.  Attempt to land on Mun and return

This was my first shove attempt and was pleased at the results.  The vessels stayed together during the burn with minimal wobble.  Having SAS enabled in the lander and pointed towards prograde helps significantly.   In previous version of KSP the SAS would disengage and this type of maneuver was tough to pull off.

Usually I send off a probe to land and return but with the EH career this has proved difficult.  The relay network limits probe use.

The idea is to shove a lander vessel into a higher orbit.  Then land and return to Mun orbit.  Rendezvous and shove back to kerbin.

The question is would a relay network be cheaper to implement? 

Since the Probodobodyne does not act as a relay, relays will need to be manned command pods. 

The other option is a hybrid where the lander is a probe and the relay network shoves the lander into Mun orbit.

edit

The shove method might be the best option.  It takes three shove ships to get the lander to Mun.  A fourth Shove ship will be used at Mun to assist with the de-orbit maneuver.

With the intention of crashing the lower tanks I attempted to land the lander.  Only two tanks broke.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited November 6, 2016 by MoeslyArmlis