My rockets are too kerbal

[Jedi_Mushroom]

Hello, fellow kerbonaut.

I have been playing KSP for a while and decided to become a more advanced player. Started a career mode, began as a total n00b. So, the beginning was pretty ok, but now I encountered a problem: as soon as my missions started being more advanced, the rockets turned into a mess. Now I don't bring the payload where I need it, but rather build the rocket up just to carry it's own weight and make it easier to intercept the orbit. My question is addressed to veteran rocket designers: how do I make it smaller and more effective? What should I remember and what are the presets for atmosphere escape, orbit, mün landing etc for a small rocket?

[GoSlash27]

 

 

1 hour ago, Jedi_Mushroom said:

Hello, fellow kerbonaut.

I have been playing KSP for a while and decided to become a more advanced player. Started a career mode, began as a total n00b. So, the beginning was pretty ok, but now I encountered a problem: as soon as my missions started being more advanced, the rockets turned into a mess. Now I don't bring the payload where I need it, but rather build the rocket up just to carry it's own weight and make it easier to intercept the orbit. My question is addressed to veteran rocket designers: how do I make it smaller and more effective? What should I remember and what are the presets for atmosphere escape, orbit, mün landing etc for a small rocket?

@Jedi_Mushroom,

 A rocket isn't perfect when nothing else needs to be added to it, it's perfect when nothing else can be removed from it. An efficient rocket design will have the bare minimum required in the payload, and is designed to accelerate that payload the bare minimum DV and t/w needed to achieve it's goal. Perhaps with a small safety margin, but stressing *small*.

An efficient rocket design begins with thorough understanding of the mission. What's required by the payload, and what's required of each individual stage.

You design the payload to achieve it's goal as light and cheap as possible. Then you design the final stage to hit it's DV and t/w goals as light and cheap as possible while pushing that payload. Then add a decoupler and repeat for the preceding stage. Continue this process until you are all the way back to the pad.

Some helpful tutorials:

 

HTHs,
-Slashy

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by GoSlash27

[bewing]

I think a point that does not get covered in the tutorials is "don't be impatient". The biggest reason I see people building krazy kerbal rockets is that players get bored launching smaller payloads and doing docking maneuvers. So they start building really giant do-everything payloads so they don't ever have to dock again.

[Hodari]

Too Kerbal?  No such thing unless you manage to make your rocket fit inside its own Kwarzschild radius.

[Streetwind]

Perhaps this writeup I once did on mass fractions will help you out a bit, too:

 

[crackerbal]

14 hours ago, Jedi_Mushroom said:

My question is addressed to veteran rocket designers: how do I make it smaller and more effective? What should I remember and what are the presets for atmosphere escape, orbit, mün landing etc for a small rocket?

1. did u done the tutarials of building rocket + making suborbital lounch + advanced rocked design+ orbiting lounches ?

everythink u r asking for is explain on this 4 tutos ig, especialy done for noobs (like everyone was one day) these rocket designs are even a bit too overpower for what they are suposed to do, but at least it shows u all the basics and u can to train yourself with them, 1. put in orbit 2. orbit + land 3. orbit and rdv with somethign other in space then land (more fuel menagement)

2. a mun landing is pretty hard for a beginner try to land on minmus first; it's easier and let u train before performing a land on mun ( witch also requires more fuel )

3. what do u mean by "presets" ? the trajectory ? the power ? the deltaV ? the Twr ?

[Snark]

@Jedi_Mushroom, aside from the excellent general-purpose advice already in this thread (in particular, lots of useful links from Slashy), it may also be a useful exercise to walk through one of your attempts.  For example:  Pick a ship whose design you're unhappy with ("here's my ship for landing one kerbal on the Mun and bringing them back, why is it so monstrous"), post a screenshot and any relevant stats, and then there are plenty of people here who will happily offer specific and highly educational suggestions for improving it.

 

[Sharpy]

One decent approach:

Set the task for the craft - the *actual* payload. Assemble the absolute minimum required to achieve the task under assumption you've teleported that thing you've just built to the destination and leave it there as soon as the task is completed.

Add the bare minimum of essentials required for return, if return is required. Optionally skip Kerbin reentry and landing - you can always send a drop pod to pick it all up from LKO later.

Add essentials required to get there.

Pack in a fairing and add a launch stage.

 

Essentially, build in two directions, starting from "what I'm gonna do at the destination", following with "how am I gonna return" and that followed by "how am I gonna get there". And assuming you drop everything you don't need anymore. Rocket Equation works in both directions. One Ant and two Oscar B tanks will get you farther than a large Kerbodyne tank and a Rhino - and in many cases, for what you need for the task, the Ant is more than sufficient!

Example:

Task: Fetch science from the Minmus rover.

 

This thingy was launched to LKO in a small fairing on top of a single Kickback augmented with four Hammers. It finished circularizing, flew to Minmus, performed a precision landing 40 meters from the rover, entered Minmus orbit carrying the science, went back to Kerbin and spent last 400m/s at periapsis, to save up on airbraking.

Required for the job: science container,

Bare minimum for survival: battery, reaction wheel, probe core, two solar panels, antenna, some sort of laning legs. The probe core had RW good enough.

Required for return: Engines, fuel, one parachute. Hey, Spiders will make good landing legs. These tanks are just right size to get me there and back.

Total mass? Under 5 tons, but above 2. That's a job for Kickback. (under 2 tons go on two stacked Hammers.)