totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[Windspren]

I might be being stupid, but where's the airlock on the Karibou and Malemute rover cabins? I have one of each on Duna and can't seem to get inside, even when I go near the "Crew Access" text on the Malemute cabin.

[voicey99]

3 minutes ago, Laythe Dweller said:

I might be being stupid, but where's the airlock on the Karibou and Malemute rover cabins? I have one of each on Duna and can't seem to get inside, even when I go near the "Crew Access" text on the Malemute cabin.

The Karibou hatch is on the bottom of the cab bubble window and the Malemute hatch is also on the bottom of the cab window. If you mouse over it you should see "crew hatch" text appear under the mouse.

Edited March 5, 2017 by voicey99

[Windspren]

Thanks!

[TauPhraim]

1 hour ago, voicey99 said:

Looking at the efficiency mults, the end efficiency seems to be a pretty bizarre number that I can't find a decent formula of with relation to the Kolonisation bonus-A 2.5m MPU on Minmus making chems has an apparent efficiency of 682% from a base of 200%, despite the Kolonisation rating being only 177%. How odd.

I didn't test them in the field yet, but looking at the part files, the MPUs should be getting the Geology Bonus twice (ie squared), and nothing related to efficiency parts (when they're converters). Does that match your numbers ? (with a geology around 184% you should be getting that, with full machinery).

[voicey99]

3 minutes ago, TauPhraim said:

I didn't test them in the field yet, but looking at the part files, the MPUs should be getting the Geology Bonus twice (ie squared), and nothing related to efficiency parts (when they're converters). Does that match your numbers ? (with a geology around 184% you should be getting that, with full machinery).

Hm, I thought converters were Kolonisation-related (your maths checks out, it is geology²). Still, squared seems a bit much (a 184% geology rating should not more than triple the production).

Edited March 5, 2017 by voicey99

[Gilph]

I have Geology:221, Botany: 180; Kolonization: 174 (rounded). That gets me to 442 and I run at 481.

Regardless, it still creates a large Machinery upkeep logistic issue.  If you cannot pull from PL, and cant transfer using Local Logistics from a supply lander, it doesn't seem useful. If you are making Machinery in a large manufacturing base, getting it to remote locations is pretty complicated.

Since the drills are very OP with the bonuses, I am turning off the converters and land more refineries centrally. The drills will upload to PL and the refineries, attached to logistics, will just do the resource conversions. It's not what was intended, but it's the best way to run at the moment.

[TauPhraim]

1 minute ago, Gilph said:

I have Geology:221, Botany: 180; Kolonization: 174 (rounded). That gets me to 442 and I run at 481.

No, it's squared  221 squared is close to 481.

Any MKSModule gets *geology.

Then depending on its "BonusEffect", it also gets either *geology (which is the default effect), or *Botany, or *Kolonization.

So parts with a default MKSModule get geology squared.

 

[voicey99]

This has been touched on before here, but processing parts really need some kind of production governor to keep the runaway efficiencies down, otherwise some parts become very OP and impractically power/resource-hungry very quickly. Either that or the bonuses need a huge nerf. The point is that the MPUs are supposed to be left for long periods without maintenance, when they are running at 3x normal pace they lose their automation perk completely and make the stock ISRUs look a very attractive alternative.

[Gilph]

I would definitely give the bonuses a nerf in lieu of a governor.  Seems silly to earn something one way and then take it away in another way

[Windspren]

How do you reconfigure drills/smelters while on EVA? I keep on getting a message, "Missing X SpecializedParts", even though I have 500 on board.

[voicey99]

19 minutes ago, Laythe Dweller said:

How do you reconfigure drills/smelters while on EVA? I keep on getting a message, "Missing X SpecializedParts", even though I have 500 on board.

500 spec parts or materialkits? If so, screenshot (showing the locations of the kontainer and part to be reconfigured) pls.

[Windspren]

The container is right next to the Kerbal (Bill), who is standing next to the Ranger Smelter, which I am trying to configure to metal smelting.

[jd284]

Is it a warehouse container with the local warehouse option enabled?

[Windspren]

It's a 2.5 m Kontainer. I don't see any options for warehousing.

Wait, no, those were Material Kits. The SpecializedParts are in the Ranger Workshop.

[TauPhraim]

1 hour ago, Gilph said:

I would definitely give the bonuses a nerf in lieu of a governor.  Seems silly to earn something one way and then take it away in another way

While I agree that they're too strong in general (and with that square thing, they're also coming stronger later, when you need them less), for MPUs, does it matter as much as for sustainable bases ? If you consider an unmanned base's goal is to convert a given supply of machinery into something else, it should not come as a problem that this happens faster than expected.

[voicey99]

2 minutes ago, TauPhraim said:

While I agree that they're too strong in general (and with that square thing, they're also coming stronger later, when you need them less), for MPUs, does it matter as much as for sustainable bases ? If you consider an unmanned base's goal is to convert a given supply of machinery into something else, it should not come as a problem that this happens faster than expected.

What';s the point in them being unmanned and autonomous if you have to go over and replace the machinery every few weeks?

[Enorats]

On 3/3/2017 at 3:21 PM, WuphonsReach said:

My current automatic miners have:

 

• 2.5m MPU (or four 1.25m MPU) configured to convert an input to an output
• 1.25m USI reactor for power
• (2) large non-extendable radiators attached to the reactor
• (2) medium extendable radiators (extended after landing for extra cooling)
• probe core, antenna, small battery capacity
• (2) Karibou saddle tanks / cargo (with PW=on in right-click menu) to hold the input and output
• (2) drills (the "automated" -100 series)

When landed somewhere with a ~5% concentration of the input, the drills will harvest more then what the 2.5m MPU can process.  Because both input/output storage tanks have PW turned on, the excess gets pushed into planetary storage.

 

Note: I figure it will be a few years before the machinery wears out (have not done the math yet).  In which time, I should be able to harvest/convert enough for whatever purpose I had in mind.

 

And if I just want to harvest the input and stuff it into planetary storage, then a few drills and the MPU installed (but not doing any work) would likely not consume any machinery, so it would run until the reactor runs out of power.

 

So.. now I have another problem. I more or less built several of these sorts of automated miners, then sent them out to Vall. They mined away and made raw materials and processed goods for years before I sent a few base components out. A few years later I sent a crew of around 20 to assemble all the base components.. a couple of each stock kerbal and maybe five kolonists, geologists, and biologists. Several technicians and mechanics as well.

Now the problem is this.. for all those years my auto miners worked happily away. Now that I've landed a crew and have about a 310% bonus to everything my MEU-500A is draining all battery power (with a 1.25m USI reactor running) and overloading four different radiators in like 5 seconds flat. It's churning out stuff at a whopping 2800% speed.. and using inputs equally as fast. Since my miner was never designed to suddenly have to put out like 30 times its normal output across the board.. it won't work anymore. Because I landed a crew on the other side of the planet.

Feel like I need a throttle limiter on my drill X_X

Anything I can do to make it work again? The 600k units of fertilizer in planetary storage will certainly last awhile, but unfortunately the water miner's 4.3 million unit supply of water for my Kerbitats' purifiers is going to get eaten up VERY fast.

[TauPhraim]

2 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

What';s the point in them being unmanned and autonomous if you have to go over and replace the machinery every few weeks?

Take the 250MPU: with a full cargo of machinery, it can convert 470 000 minerals into 94 000 chemicals.

Suppose it would take 3 years to do so with reasonable rates.

Now with crazy bonuses, what if it takes only 30 days ? In the end you can still send your engineer for maintenance every 3 years, and you'll still have 94k chemicals every 3 years.

 

 

[voicey99]

7 minutes ago, Enorats said:

So.. now I have another problem. I more or less built several of these sorts of automated miners, then sent them out to Vall. They mined away and made raw materials and processed goods for years before I sent a few base components out. A few years later I sent a crew of around 20 to assemble all the base components.. a couple of each stock kerbal and maybe five kolonists, geologists, and biologists. Several technicians and mechanics as well.

Now the problem is this.. for all those years my auto miners worked happily away. Now that I've landed a crew and have about a 310% bonus to everything my MEU-500A is draining all battery power (with a 1.25m USI reactor running) and overloading four different radiators in like 5 seconds flat. It's churning out stuff at a whopping 2800% speed.. and using inputs equally as fast. Since my miner was never designed to suddenly have to put out like 30 times its normal output across the board.. it won't work anymore. Because I landed a crew on the other side of the planet.

Feel like I need a throttle limiter on my drill X_X

Anything I can do to make it work again? The 600k units of fertilizer in planetary storage will certainly last awhile, but unfortunately the water miner's 4.3 million unit supply of water for my Kerbitats' purifiers is going to get eaten up VERY fast.

Nope. That's the point I'm making. The only way to limit the speed of processors would be to manually transfer machinery out and let the efficiency drop, but this would require regular checkins to maintain the level.

2 minutes ago, TauPhraim said:

Take the 250MPU: with a full cargo of machinery, it can convert 470 000 minerals into 94 000 chemicals.

Suppose it would take 3 years to do so with reasonable rates.

Now with crazy bonuses, what if it takes only 30 days ? In the end you can still send your engineer for maintenance every 3 years, and you'll still have 94k chemicals every 3 years.

Then what's the point of the bonuses? And what if it also massively overloads the power supply and heat diffusion (coming soon) in the process?

Edited March 5, 2017 by voicey99

[Gilph]

3 minutes ago, TauPhraim said:

Take the 250MPU: with a full cargo of machinery, it can convert 470 000 minerals into 94 000 chemicals.

Suppose it would take 3 years to do so with reasonable rates.

Now with crazy bonuses, what if it takes only 30 days ? In the end you can still send your engineer for maintenance every 3 years, and you'll still have 94k chemicals every 3 years.

 

 

I had made that point earlier.  Not sure if that is the intended behavior. If it is, there are other, better solutions.

It all makes good sense at 100% load.  It does not at 481%

[TauPhraim]

11 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Then what's the point of the bonuses? And what if it also massively overloads the power supply and heat diffusion (coming soon) in the process?

I agree this can be a problem, but not specific to unmanned bases (a power shutdown could kill your Kerbals or something). A governor on all converters would be cool.

[voicey99]

Just now, TauPhraim said:

I agree this can be a problem, but not specific to unmanned bases (a power shutdown could kill your Kerbals or something). A governor on all converters would be cool.

Yes it would, but it shouldn't be needed in the first place.

This discussion is going in circles now with the same points being repeated again and again-maybe we should put this one to bed until @RoverDude gives his verdict?

[Enorats]

1 minute ago, TauPhraim said:

I agree this can be a problem, but not specific to unmanned bases (a power shutdown could kill your Kerbals or something). A governor on all converters would be cool.

This is the problem I'm having actually. My automated miners were designed to run at the rate I sent them out at, enough power to keep the radiators, drills, and MPU's running. Now, they overload and shut down almost instantly, making my entire production line grind to a halt. My crew arrived counting on a constant influx of supplies that'd keep them going indefinitely.. now suddenly the same machines that would have kept them alive just fine won't give them any resources at all because they won't run anymore. My drill needs a governor to stop it from sucking in 30 times the power I designed it for.

[TauPhraim]

By the way I think the governor on efficiency parts can be simply removed, as it probably dates from a time when efficiency part bonuses were running wild. But now (and even before the removal of Kolony bonuses on them to a lesser degree), they don't have a killer impact anymore, so tuning things by switching them on/off is enough.

This would free some room/name in the interface, should a governor be added for converters. (though I must say "governor" is not the best of names to me, it makes me think of a person  But I'm not native english speaker).

Edited March 5, 2017 by TauPhraim

[Windspren]

How do you convert Hydrates into Water?