totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[voicey99]

17 minutes ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

can you instead just start KSP again, get it to the point where it starts spamming and then quit and upload the new log? I'm not looking at a file that big, sorry 

Hm, I can't get it to repro after the crash. I'll let you know if it rears its ugly head again.

[Deathninja]

51 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

(Answer)

 

30 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

(Answer)

Thanks both, I foolishly assumed the KSPedia in game had parity with the wiki.

 

Quote

The 'Ranger' Regolith sifter processes 9.0 Dirt per hour using 9,180 ElectricCharge per hour. Output is set at 0.18 units per hour per resource.

The Tundra Industrial Refinery processes 3,420 Dirt per hour using 348,840 ElectricCharge per hour. Output is set at 3600 units per hour per resource.

Was the key bit, so looks like sifting is based on global, not local %, looks like I need to get a Tundra and some reactors over there soon, spare tools too, luckily this is only a testbed on the Mun.

At least I know about the deployables bug/feature/issue now.

[voicey99]

Just now, Deathninja said:

Was the key bit, so looks like sifting is based on global, not local %, looks like I need to get a Tundra and some reactors over there soon, spare tools too, luckily this is only a testbed on the Mun.

At least I know about the deployables bug/feature/issue now.

I don't usually bother with sifting since it gives you so little stuff for your effort. It's good if you want to centralise everything, but it's much better to place MPUs with auto drills where the concentrations are decent.

[Deathninja]

18 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

I don't usually bother with sifting since it gives you so little stuff for your effort. It's good if you want to centralise everything, but it's much better to place MPUs with auto drills where the concentrations are decent.

Terrain makes it a nightmare on the Mun unless you want to go with PL, just trying to get comfortable with the resource chains.

[voicey99]

Just now, Deathninja said:

Terrain makes it a nightmare on the Mun unless you want to go with PL, just trying to get comfortable with the resource chains.

The MPUs have inbuilt PL push capability, all you need as a logistics module on the other end to receive it. Still, I guess you are right in that sifting gives you all the resources at once to toy with.

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, voicey99 said:

I don't usually bother with sifting since it gives you so little stuff for your effort. It's good if you want to centralise everything, but it's much better to place MPUs with auto drills where the concentrations are decent.

I tend to think of it as good for a starter base - you can send out *one* sifter and drill to a planet, and pretty much be sure you have everything you need to keep your colony alive until your bigger industry gets in place.

[Danilo Coelho]

Is there any plans for improve the training process? Not complaining, but the current process feels a little bit cheaty. Would be nice to have a longer period of training and some costs. 

[Terwin]

1 hour ago, DStaal said:

I tend to think of it as good for a starter base - you can send out *one* sifter and drill to a planet, and pretty much be sure you have everything you need to keep your colony alive until your bigger industry gets in place.

If you send a scanner first so you know where some Gypsum is, you can get by with recyclers, Nom-O-Matics, one drill, and a Ranger Crusher set to Fertilizer(g)

That will keep everyone alive with only a single resource(plus power and hab-space of course).

You could even use the small ISRU to make fertilizer from ore if you cannot find a reasonable spot with gypsum or minerals.

[DStaal]

12 hours ago, Terwin said:

If you send a scanner first so you know where some Gypsum is, you can get by with recyclers, Nom-O-Matics, one drill, and a Ranger Crusher set to Fertilizer(g)

That will keep everyone alive with only a single resource(plus power and hab-space of course).

You could even use the small ISRU to make fertilizer from ore if you cannot find a reasonable spot with gypsum or minerals.

That keeps your Kerbals alive - but switch to a regolith drill and a sifter, add on a couple of Ranger parts, and you'll be able to make MaterialKits as well - which gets you Machinery for repairs, via maintenance, which will keep your base alive.  If you're lucky you may even have overflow you can use for constructing new DIY kits to expand your base.  (If not you'll be short something, and you can focus your efforts on that, in the near-term.)

[Terwin]

14 hours ago, Danilo Coelho said:

Is there any plans for improve the training process? Not complaining, but the current process feels a little bit cheaty. Would be nice to have a longer period of training and some costs. 

Currently the training process will allow you to have one additional star compared to what you would have just getting to where the academy is located.

But only if you already have someone who has that additional star where ever you have the academy.

If you have already done the mun-minmus-kerbol training missions(even in parts) then having an academy(with a teacher and life support, etc) on the Mun or Minmus will let you make a shorter training flight if you land near the academy.

Putting one in orbit or on the surface of Kerbin saves almost no effort and seems like a waste of time.

Sure you can train all of your raw recruits up to 1 star for a launch/recover, but they would get that much just from reaching orbit, so why bother?  For me the big savings is letting me short-cut my training flights to just hitting my Mun way-station.  As I have done many many training flights, it is not particularly interesting any more, so I am happy to short-cut it.

[N3N]

Hey, maybe someone can help me, please:

I'm trying to make a MM patch to add "Karbonite drilling" to the "MKS Automated Industrial Strip Miner", because I think the normal(/smaller) Karbonite drills are to small/inefficient for a big base.

My idea was to build an automated drilling base on Minmus, that converts Karbonite to LF+Ox and Monopropellant, for refueling and to fuel the finished DIY-Kits via "Planetary Logistics".

(I tried it with an automated Ore base first, because the "MKS Automated Industrial Strip Miner" can harvest Ore efficient (it has 600% base efficiency), but the stock ISRU (even with the suggested fix) makes some problems, without Engineers. )

 

At the moment:

"BSX-200 Karbonite Distiller" needs for Monopropellant: 5 Karbonite/s
"BSP-250 Karbonite Converter" needs for LF+Ox: 10 Karbonite/s

"DRT-40 Radial Karbonite Drills" (it has 100% base efficiency) needed at Minmus (at best 8,54% Karbonite) for 5 Karbonite/s: ~58,55
"DRT-40 Radial Karbonite Drills" (it has 100% base efficiency) needed at Minmus (at best 8,54% Karbonite) for 10 Karbonite/s: ~117,10
Total for 15 Karbonite/s: ~175,65 "DRT-40 Radial Karbonite Drills"

My idea:

Add the "Karbonite drilling" to the "MKS Automated Industrial Strip Miner", like with the other resources, so that it has 600% base efficiency:

"MKS Automated Industrial Strip Miners" needed at Minmus (at best 8,54% Karbonite) for 5 Karbonite/s: ~9,76
"MKS Automated Industrial Strip Miners" needed at Minmus (at best 8,54% Karbonite) for 10 Karbonite/s: ~19,52
Total for 15 Karbonite/s: ~29,28 "MKS Automated Industrial Strip Miners"

That's much more doable!

 

 

I will try to post my first attempt later on, maybe someone has a good idea or a better suggestion.

I'm new to making MM patches, it's my first attempt.

 

 

Sorry for my english, it's only my third language.

[voicey99]

I've also noticed that under the MKSModule tag in the VAB, it now says what bonuses parts receive-apparently hab modules are supposed to get bonuses now (or did they always-geo*kol, according to the explainer plugin). I tested this and they do, but what is the new formula for this? It seems to be just habtime*kol, but I could be wrong and it also doesn't seem to use any more power than at standard rates.

@N3N That's still a very scary number of ISMs. I think, like the vanilla ISRU, it is more intended as a sink all the karbonite you can mine and not really meant to be filled up. You might also want to use a dot instead of a comma as a decimal point, or else you might confuse people.

[N3N]

2 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

 

@N3N That's still a very scary number of ISMs. I think, like the vanilla ISRU, it is more intended as a sink all the karbonite you can mine and not really meant to be filled up. You might also want to use a dot instead of a comma as a decimal point, or else you might confuse people.

Hey voicey99,

Yes, but I think it's logical, that the MKS drills can harvest Karbonite, too.

Why should they only mine all other resources, but not Karbonite?

But I'm open to ideas and suggestions.

 

And that with the dot instead of a comma is not common in Europe and many other countries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark#/media/File:DecimalSeparator.svg

 

[voicey99]

17 minutes ago, N3N said:

Hey voicey99,

Yes, but I think it's logical, that the MKS drills can harvest Karbonite, too.

Why should they only mine all other resources, but not Karbonite?

But I'm open to ideas and suggestions.

I guess it might be because Ka has its own dedicated drills, and allowing MKS drills to mine it might undermine their usefulness. I'll have a go at adding Ka modes to them at some point when I find some time, but at a lower overall efficiency than the dedicated drills for balance (something about having to be careful around Karbonite).

Your map also shows that the English-speaking world uses the dot. Just a tip so those here can understand you better-for example, if you say '13,574' most people here will think you mean 'thirteen thousand five hundred and seventy-four' instead of 'thirteen point five-seven-four' . You can use the comma if you really want, but be prepared for misunderstandings.

Edited May 9, 2017 by voicey99

[N3N]

1 minute ago, voicey99 said:

I guess it might be because Ka has its own dedicated drills, and allowing MKS drills to mine it might undermine their usefulness. I'll have a go at adding Ka modes to them at some point when I find some time, but at a lower overall efficiency than the dedicated drills for balance (something about having to be careful around Karbonite).

Your map also shows that the English-speaking world uses the dot. Just a tip so those here can understand you better-for example, if you say '13,574' most people here will think you mean 'thirteen thousand five hundred and seventy-four' instead of 'thirteen point five-seven-four' 

Hey voicey99,

That's right, good, that I wrote only two decimals after the comma.

I will try to remember it.

 

And for the MM patch, here is my first try at it (yet untested):

//Adds the possibility to harvest Karbonite and Karborundum with the automated MKS drills.

@PART[MKS_Drill_03A]:NEEDS[MKS&Karbonite]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceHarvester_USI
		HarvesterType = 0
		Efficiency = 6
		ResourceName = Karbonite
		ConverterName = Karbonite
		StartActionName = Start Karbonite Drill
		StopActionName = Stop Karbonite Drill
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 60
		}
		ImpactTransform = ImpactTransform
		ImpactRange = 15
		AutoShutdown = true
		UseSpecialistBonus = false
		
		EfficiencyBonus = 1
		GeneratesHeat = true
		TemperatureModifier
		{
			key = 0 10000
			key = 250 5000
			key = 500 2500
			key = 750 250
			key = 1000 0
		}		
		ThermalEfficiency 
		{
			key = 0 0.1
			key = 250 .1
			key = 500 1
			key = 750 .1
			key = 1000 0
		}
	}
	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceHarvester_USI
		HarvesterType = 0
		Efficiency = 6
		ResourceName = Karborundum
		ConverterName = Karborundum
		StartActionName = Start Karborundum Drill
		StopActionName = Stop Karborundum Drill
	 INPUT_RESOURCE
	 {
		ResourceName = ElectricCharge
		Ratio = 60
	 }
	 		ImpactTransform = ImpactTransform
		ImpactRange = 15
		AutoShutdown = true
		UseSpecialistBonus = false
		
		EfficiencyBonus = 1
		GeneratesHeat = true
		TemperatureModifier
		{
			key = 0 10000
			key = 250 5000
			key = 500 2500
			key = 750 250
			key = 1000 0
		}		
		ThermalEfficiency 
		{
			key = 0 0.1
			key = 250 .1
			key = 500 1
			key = 750 .1
			key = 1000 0
		}
	}	
}

@PART[MKS_Drill_02A]:NEEDS[MKS&Karbonite]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceHarvester_USI
		HarvesterType = 0
		Efficiency = 2
		ResourceName = Karbonite
		ConverterName = Karbonite
		StartActionName = Start Karbonite Drill
		StopActionName = Stop Karbonite Drill
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 20
		}
		ImpactTransform = ImpactTransform
		ImpactRange = 5
		AutoShutdown = true
		UseSpecialistBonus = false
		
		EfficiencyBonus = 1
		GeneratesHeat = true
		TemperatureModifier
		{
			key = 0 10000
			key = 250 5000
			key = 500 2500
			key = 750 250
			key = 1000 0
		}		
		ThermalEfficiency 
		{
			key = 0 0.1
			key = 250 .1
			key = 500 1
			key = 750 .1
			key = 1000 0
		}
	}
	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceHarvester_USI
		HarvesterType = 0
		Efficiency = 2
		ResourceName = Karborundum
		ConverterName = Karborundum
		StartActionName = Start Karborundum Drill
		StopActionName = Stop Karborundum Drill
	 INPUT_RESOURCE
	 {
		ResourceName = ElectricCharge
		Ratio = 20
	 }
	 		ImpactTransform = ImpactTransform
		ImpactRange = 5
		AutoShutdown = true
		UseSpecialistBonus = false
		
		EfficiencyBonus = 1
		GeneratesHeat = true
		TemperatureModifier
		{
			key = 0 10000
			key = 250 5000
			key = 500 2500
			key = 750 250
			key = 1000 0
		}		
		ThermalEfficiency 
		{
			key = 0 0.1
			key = 250 .1
			key = 500 1
			key = 750 .1
			key = 1000 0
		}
	}	
}

@PART[MKS_Drill_01A]:NEEDS[MKS&Karbonite]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceHarvester_USI
		HarvesterType = 0
		Efficiency = 1
		ResourceName = Karbonite
		ConverterName = Karbonite
		StartActionName = Start Karbonite Drill
		StopActionName = Stop Karbonite Drill
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 10
		}
		ImpactTransform = ImpactTransform
		ImpactRange = 7
		AutoShutdown = true
		UseSpecialistBonus = false
		
		EfficiencyBonus = 1
		GeneratesHeat = true
		TemperatureModifier
		{
			key = 0 10000
			key = 250 5000
			key = 500 2500
			key = 750 250
			key = 1000 0
		}		
		ThermalEfficiency 
		{
			key = 0 0.1
			key = 250 .1
			key = 500 1
			key = 750 .1
			key = 1000 0
		}
	}
	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceHarvester_USI
		HarvesterType = 0
		Efficiency = 1
		ResourceName = Karborundum
		ConverterName = Karborundum
		StartActionName = Start Karborundum Drill
		StopActionName = Stop Karborundum Drill
	 INPUT_RESOURCE
	 {
		ResourceName = ElectricCharge
		Ratio = 10
	 }
	 		ImpactTransform = ImpactTransform
		ImpactRange = 7
		AutoShutdown = true
		UseSpecialistBonus = false
		
		EfficiencyBonus = 1
		GeneratesHeat = true
		TemperatureModifier
		{
			key = 0 10000
			key = 250 5000
			key = 500 2500
			key = 750 250
			key = 1000 0
		}		
		ThermalEfficiency 
		{
			key = 0 0.1
			key = 250 .1
			key = 500 1
			key = 750 .1
			key = 1000 0
		}
	}	
}

Here you can download the File: MM-Patch_Karbonite-MKS-Drills.cfg

[Cucco-Master]

Does anyone know if the funds/science/rep from the kolonization bonuses is influenced by admin building strategies (or by the income modifiers from the difficulty settings)?

[voicey99]

25 minutes ago, N3N said:

<schnip>

MKS comes with the Community Resource Pack, which includes definitions for Karbonite, meaning Karbonite is always defined even when the mod that uses it is not so the drills can have that mode built in by default. No need for a patch, but more of an addition to the main configuration file. Some observations:

• Is that the right NEEDS syntax? You ***might*** need a comma  in between them with no spaces like this NEEDS[MKS,Karbonite]. Not sure what the 'mod' name of MKS is or whether that syntax is correct.
• You might want to lower the power usage slightly and efficiency on the drills significantly to keep the dedicated Karbonite drills relevant (I would say to 3/10 of their default-remember each drill has multiple drillheads, and all the production figures are per head so for the MEU-500 that adds up to 0.9/s for balance since they weigh less).
• And no Karborundum either. Leave that to the DRTs.
• What about the manned drills?

@Cucco-Master Nope. You can manually configure the multipliers in UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Settings.cfg if you feel like they are too low/high, though.

Edited May 9, 2017 by voicey99

[RoverDude]

3 minutes ago, Cucco-Master said:

Does anyone know if the funds/science/rep from the kolonization bonuses is influenced by admin building strategies (or by the income modifiers from the difficulty settings)?

They are not.

(To add:  The multipliers themselves are configurable)

[voicey99]

2 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

They are not.

Hm. Could be a possible point of any possible far-future Strategia integration.

[DStaal]

12 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

• Is that the right NEEDS syntax? You ***might*** need a comma  in between them with no spaces like this NEEDS[MKS,Karbonite]. Not sure what the 'mod' name of MKS is or whether that syntax is correct.

MKS is moderately hard to target from MM, as it's not a top-level folder.  I tend to target 'KolonyTools' when I want MKS - it's the DLL.

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, DStaal said:

MKS is moderately hard to target from MM, as it's not a top-level folder.  I tend to target 'KolonyTools' when I want MKS - it's the DLL.

I'm not sure this needs to target anything, as it should be part of the main MKS set of cfgs. As I said, Karbonite is always defined in the CRP so the drills can safely have a Karbonite mode (it does have a use in MKS) even when Karbonite isn't installed.

[N3N]

16 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

MKS comes with the Community Resource Pack, which includes definitions for Karbonite, meaning Karbonite is always defined even when the mod that uses it is not so the drills can have that mode built in by default. No need for a patch, but more of an addition to the main configuration file. Some observations:

• Is that the right NEEDS syntax? You ***might*** need a comma  in between them with no spaces like this NEEDS[MKS,Karbonite]. Not sure what the 'mod' name of MKS is or whether that syntax is correct.
• You might want to lower the power usage slightly and efficiency on the drills significantly to keep the dedicated Karbonite drills relevant (I would say to 3/10 of their default-remember each drill has multiple drillheads, and all the production figures are per head so for the MEU-500 that adds up to 0.9/s for balance since they weigh less).
• And no Karborundum either. Leave that to the DRTs.
• What about the manned drills?

Hey voicey99,

I'm testing it right now.

For now only the automated drills (manual drills need "UseSpecialistBonus", next version) and Karborundum was only for a quick testing, will be removed (or optional, if many want it).

 

Yes, Karbonite is in the CRP, but the right modules to harvest it need to be added to the part config via MM. (like Karborundum is added to the Karbonite drills)

I made the "NEEDS" syntax, like it is described in the MM handbook and there stands "&" for "AND".

And I have the mod names for MKS and Karbonite from other functioning MM patches in other mods.

 

Balancing will be in the next version.

 

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, N3N said:

For now only the automated drills (manual drills need "UseSpecialistBonus", next version) and Karborundum was only for a quick testing, will be removed (or optional, if many want it).

Yes, Karbonite is in the CRP, but the right modules to harvest it need to be added to the part config via MM. (like Karborundum is added to the Karbonite drills)

I made the "NEEDS" syntax, like it is described in the MM handbook and there stands "&" for "AND".

And I have the mod names for MKS and Karbonite from other functioning MM patches in other mods.

 

Balancing will be in the next version.

When you've finished making your patch, I'll possibly edit it a bit more and then pull it into the main mod for you (the fewer detached patches lying around the better, since they increase load time and clutter the folder).

...where has this MM handbook been all my life?

[N3N]

13 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

When you've finished making your patch, I'll possibly edit it a bit more and then pull it into the main mod for you (the fewer detached patches lying around the better, since they increase load time and clutter the folder).

...where has this MM handbook been all my life?

Hey voicey99,

 

Do you mean, it will be integrated into MKS?? o_O

(It's my very first MM patch... )

 

And here is the MM handbook:

https://github.com/sarbian/ModuleManager/wiki/Module-Manager-Handbook

Edited May 9, 2017 by N3N

[voicey99]

Just now, N3N said:

Do you mean, it will be integrated into MKS?? o_O

(It's my very first MM patch... )

If it's good, then RD is always open to new additions to MKS. I've submitted five so far.