Communicatons?

[Cannon]

I just updated to 1.2 and I need some help :P.

I noticed that Kerbin has communication centers all over the surface, so do I need to launch antennas into the orbit around Kerbin?

[bewing]

It is a new feature called CommNet. You can turn it off if you want to. CommNet adds the idea of "losing communication signal" to the game, so it makes the game a littler harder.

Kerbin already has very strong antennas on it, so you don't need to launch antennas around Kerbin. What you need are antennas at the other end, way out in space -- around other planets.

But before you get antennas strong enough to transmit from other planets back to Kerbin, you need to do a lot of research to get the "relay antennas".

If you lose signal, then to maintain full control of a vessel, you need a pilot. If you do not have a pilot, a vessel will drop into "limited control mode", which will make it a little harder to fly.

 

 

[Snark]

Also, there are game options that can make Kerbin-orbiting satellites more necessary-- for example, there's a toggle to turn off all the other communication centers, so that you have to have a signal to KSC itself, not just Kerbin, which can be an issue when KSC is on the opposite side of Kerbin from your ship.  And there's a game difficulty option so that you totally lose control if you don't have a communications link.

But those only happen if you've chosen those options specifically-- neither of them is the default.

[Garrett Kerman]

Yes. If you're close to Kerbin, then they aren't nessary. But if you plan to go the Mun or Minmus, you probably should pack one. One communitron 16 should suffice, unless you have a weak tracking station. In that case, you should bring a more high-power antenna, or bring more 16s. (Also, if you're bringing communitron 16 or any other antenna [except the communitron 16s] you need to extend them. Right click on the antenna and chose the 'extend antenna' option. Then they will work.). Sorry about the lengthy explanation, and if you're confused, feel free to ask me any questions.

[Benjamin Kerman]

Another thing is that when big lumps of rock (I'm lookin at you, Mun) get in the way, you lose signal. Not a big deal for beginning missions, but later in the game when you have ground bases, this can become an issue. 

[Lunar Sea]

On 1/8/2017 at 10:57 PM, Garrett Kerman said:

Yes. If you're close to Kerbin, then they aren't nessary. But if you plan to go the Mun or Minmus, you probably should pack one. One communitron 16 should suffice, unless you have a weak tracking station. In that case, you should bring a more high-power antenna, or bring more 16s. (Also, if you're bringing communitron 16 or any other antenna [except the communitron 16s] you need to extend them. Right click on the antenna and chose the 'extend antenna' option. Then they will work.). Sorry about the lengthy explanation, and if you're confused, feel free to ask me any questions.

I just updated to 1.2 from 1.05 a little while back and noticed this. They used to just extend by themselves! Now you gotta micromanage it? Weak!

[Snark]

43 minutes ago, Lunar Sea said:

I just updated to 1.2 from 1.05 a little while back and noticed this. They used to just extend by themselves! Now you gotta micromanage it? Weak!

They didn't just "extend by themselves" before, they were normally retracted all the time.

Unless you're talking about when they transmit science.  In that case, you're right:  they used to automatically extend, transmit, and retract, every time you transmit.  And they still do.  If you have a retracted antenna, and transmit science, it'll temporarily auto-extend the same way it always has.  That hasn't changed in 1.2.x.

The only "micro-managing" you need to do is, if you have CommNet turned on, and you want to use the antenna continuously so that you can control the ship, then yes, you need to extend the antenna yourself, if it's one of the deployable ones.  That's a feature, not a bug.  The whole point of CommNet is that it provides additional challenges.  If you don't like it, the problem is easily solved-- just turn off CommNet in the difficulty options and the game will act exactly the way it did before 1.2.

And in any case, I wouldn't call this "micromanaging", at least not any more than the rest of KSP already is.  You need to manually extend/retract solar panels, after all.  And radiators.  And landing gear.  And landing legs on airplanes.  And drills.  And there are a gazillion ship systems that you have to turn on and off manually, such as SAS, RCS, fine-control mode, fuel cells, ISRU, lights, engine modes, etc.  This is just more of same, and it's a pretty minor thing-- extend the antenna once, as soon as you're out of atmosphere, and then leave it extended.  There, done for the remainder of the craft's lifetime.

 

[Lunar Sea]

On 1/10/2017 at 8:54 AM, Snark said:

Unless you're talking about when they transmit science.  In that case, you're right:  they used to automatically extend, transmit, and retract, every time you transmit.  And they still do.  If you have a retracted antenna, and transmit science, it'll temporarily auto-extend the same way it always has.  That hasn't changed in 1.2.x.

 

There's been a few times I was trying to transmit science and it wouldn't send (no usable comms devices), so I had to extend the antenna manually, and then it would send. At least I remember it that way. I'll go back and check. But it wasn't temporarily auto-extending, I had to manage it. Other than that I am liking the comms thing. 

[Snark]

16 minutes ago, Lunar Sea said:

There's been a few times I was trying to transmit science and it wouldn't send (no usable comms devices), so I had to extend the antenna manually, and then it would send. At least I remember it that way. I'll go back and check. But it wasn't temporarily auto-extending, I had to manage it. Other than that I am liking the comms thing. 

Well, that particular scenario hasn't come up for me, since it can't-- I like to play comms in "hard mode" (i.e. no comms on unmanned ship = no control whatsoever, which would prevent any actions, including extending the antenna manually).

However, I've definitely seen auto-extend happen when, for example, my crewed Mun lander needed to transmit a crew report or something.  I just say "transmit" and it extends the antenna long enough to send.

[Lunar Sea]

22 hours ago, Snark said:

Well, that particular scenario hasn't come up for me, since it can't-- I like to play comms in "hard mode" (i.e. no comms on unmanned ship = no control whatsoever, which would prevent any actions, including extending the antenna manually).

However, I've definitely seen auto-extend happen when, for example, my crewed Mun lander needed to transmit a crew report or something.  I just say "transmit" and it extends the antenna long enough to send.

I tested it with a vessel on the pad and found this. With an unextended antenna, if you gather science and click on the blue button to transmit data for a particular experiment it won't go and shows the message 'no usable in-range comm devices' or similar. You have to extend the antenna for that button to work. If you right-click and select transmit data it will transmit everything - which is not always desirable. For example after a hard day of sciencing and the relay passes overhead one might wish to just transmit crew reports which are small data-wise and can yield 100% and hang on to the bigger experiments like atmo analysis. 

Anyway it's a very small gripe but indeed if you want to rifle through your experiments and send only specific ones you better have extended that antenna your own darn self first 

[Snark]

1 hour ago, Lunar Sea said:

I tested it with a vessel on the pad and found this. With an unextended antenna, if you gather science and click on the blue button to transmit data for a particular experiment it won't go and shows the message 'no usable in-range comm devices' or similar.

Sorry, this is the exact opposite of what I observe.  Tested it just now on the launchpad.

1. Create a craft in the VAB consisting of the following parts:
   • HECS2 probe core
   • Thermometer
   • Communotron-16 antenna
2. Launch the craft.  (The antenna is retracted, which is the default setting.)
3. On the launchpad, right-click the thermometer and press the "Log Temperature" button.
4. When the science dialog pops up, press the blue "Transmit Data" button.
5. Result:  The Communotron-16 extends itself, the data transmits, then the antenna retracts again.

Not sure why I'm observing something different from you.  You're running KSP 1.2.2, right?

If we're getting different results, either one of us is seeing things, or else it's some mod or game setting or such.  I went rummaging in game settings, but didn't see any obvious "antennas will/won't auto-extend" candidate.  AFAICT, I'm not running any mods that ought to affect this behavior.

[Lunar Sea]

On 1/12/2017 at 9:10 AM, Snark said:

Sorry, this is the exact opposite of what I observe.  Tested it just now on the launchpad.

1. Create a craft in the VAB consisting of the following parts:
   • HECS2 probe core
   • Thermometer
   • Communotron-16 antenna
2. Launch the craft.  (The antenna is retracted, which is the default setting.)
3. On the launchpad, right-click the thermometer and press the "Log Temperature" button.
4. When the science dialog pops up, press the blue "Transmit Data" button.
5. Result:  The Communotron-16 extends itself, the data transmits, then the antenna retracts again.

Not sure why I'm observing something different from you.  You're running KSP 1.2.2, right?

If we're getting different results, either one of us is seeing things, or else it's some mod or game setting or such.  I went rummaging in game settings, but didn't see any obvious "antennas will/won't auto-extend" candidate.  AFAICT, I'm not running any mods that ought to affect this behavior.

Yeah must be a mod or something. Thanks for testing it out on your side.