Submarine on Eve

[Birdco_Space]

Little back story on this.

Got my 6 year old into KSP, and he is of building his own contraptions to meet self directed goals.  First was a rover to collect science around KSP (Success), next was a rocket plane that could go to orbit and back (needed help on piloting and re-entry, but also eventually successful)

His next goal: a submarine to eve to swim around and get science from the bottom at different locations.

I got to credit him for being ambitious, and I will step him through some intermediate goals first, but his ultimate goal is a bit beyond what I've so far accomplished.

So some questions for the experts:

1) What's the density of explodium?  Are we talking liquid mercury, or something closer to the 1 kg/L water sits at.

2) How does negative elevations impact Rocket ISP.  Obviously Aerospikes are probably the only viable option for movement (I've not yet been successful with stock electric propellers), but will pressure continue to increase as depth increases to the point where Aerospikes stop working?

3) I have a rough plan on ballast management (beaching after re-entry and filling ore tanks ashore before exploring the depths), but interested in anyone smarter than me has a good idea on this. 

4) My 6 year old takes Jeb everywhere, So I'm gonna have to figure someway to get him back.  Probably not in anything attached to the sub, so I'll need something that can precision land near the coast, then get back to orbit from sea level.  Given there is nothing precision with my current design for Eve accent vehicle (Moar boosters and brute force and all that), tips on this are welcome.  

[Signo]

1) in my experience, it seems to me that explodium is as dense as kerbin water. Kerbals float almost the same way.

2) I suppose that the deeper you will go the less ISP you will get from your engines. They surely work underwater, but your range might be severely shortened depending on how deep the sub will sail.

3) it seems a very good strategy - at least worth a try.

4) The only suggestion I have regarding a precision landing is "F5/F9". 

 

Good luck

[obi_juan]

The density of the "water" in Eve is higher than in Kerbin, MechJeb says that is 6.268Kg/m^3... But that is the density of the air just above the liquid. Is more difficult to sink a submarine, a submarine that's work on Kerbin does not work on Eve, so I think that the density is higher..

I use the mod parts from  RoverDude, SubPack. And a made a Sub-Plane drone to study the oceans of Eve, I will present it today or tomorrow. I landed with it in Eve two days ago. 

https://github.com/BobPalmer/ExplorationPack/releases

[CodaThePortalmaster]

ISP doesn't decrease as you go down, but the terrain does start getting a bit sketchy(atleast for me) under 1050m. Ore tanks might be good to and just slap engines on the back but I use subs kinda like obi's, without mods of course.

[Birdco_Space]

1 hour ago, obi_juan said:

The density of the "water" in Eve is higher than in Kerbin, MechJeb says that is 6.268Kg/m^3... But that is the density of the air just above the liquid. Is more difficult to sink a submarine, a submarine that's work on Kerbin does not work on Eve, so I think that the density is higher..

I use the mod parts from  RoverDude, SubPack. And a made a Sub-Plane drone to study the oceans of Eve, I will present it today or tomorrow. I landed with it in Eve two days ago. 

+ interesting design

Does your design able to move through the water column, or basically just functions as a rover on the sea floor?

 

[Foxster]

There's some pretty good craft here for getting your man back to orbit...

 

[obi_juan]

4 hours ago, Birdco_Space said:

Does your design able to move through the water column, or basically just functions as a rover on the sea floor?

 

See it for yourself.

http://imgur.com/a/pLKxs

Edited January 11, 2017 by obi_juan

[xendelaar]

@Birdco_SpaceYou got your 6 year old to get interested in KSP? That's amazing?  I'm not even able to get my own friends enthusiastic about the greatest game ever created.. so i didn't ever bother to show the game to my little nephew (also 6).

Next time he visits, i will to teach him the kerbal way.

Do you have any tips getting him enthusiastic?  He loves games like minecraft (although he's not really that good at it yet)

Edited January 17, 2017 by xendelaar

[Magzimum]

3.

Use canards to control the depth of the submarine. With the high density of the water, a few canards make a big impact. Ore tanks (full) and lots of metal girders/beams is all that I can think of to make the submarine's buoyancy neutral. I don't see much point in making it sink. Zero buoyancy is good enough. 

4.

If you build a submarine, you could also add a small but nimble rover to ferry Jeb to the return-vehicle. You can either put the rover on top of the submarine, and carry it with you, or leave it on the dry land and return to it. With a rover on the surface, your landing zone for your return vehicle becomes much larger. (And also your design challenges for the submarine-rover-combo become much more complicated ).

4.

Alternatively, you could land your return vehicle first, on an area with lots of water (reload if you land IN the water). Then land splash-down the submarine afterwards, and boat around towards the return vehicle. Obviously this limits the freedom of the sub, but makes the mission a little easier to design.

[tseitsei89]

On 11.1.2017 at 0:39 PM, Birdco_Space said:

Little back story on this.

Got my 6 year old into KSP, and he is of building his own contraptions to meet self directed goals.  First was a rover to collect science around KSP (Success), next was a rocket plane that could go to orbit and back (needed help on piloting and re-entry, but also eventually successful)

His next goal: a submarine to eve to swim around and get science from the bottom at different locations.

I got to credit him for being ambitious, and I will step him through some intermediate goals first, but his ultimate goal is a bit beyond what I've so far accomplished.

So some questions for the experts:

1) What's the density of explodium?  Are we talking liquid mercury, or something closer to the 1 kg/L water sits at.

2) How does negative elevations impact Rocket ISP.  Obviously Aerospikes are probably the only viable option for movement (I've not yet been successful with stock electric propellers), but will pressure continue to increase as depth increases to the point where Aerospikes stop working?

3) I have a rough plan on ballast management (beaching after re-entry and filling ore tanks ashore before exploring the depths), but interested in anyone smarter than me has a good idea on this. 

4) My 6 year old takes Jeb everywhere, So I'm gonna have to figure someway to get him back.  Probably not in anything attached to the sub, so I'll need something that can precision land near the coast, then get back to orbit from sea level.  Given there is nothing precision with my current design for Eve accent vehicle (Moar boosters and brute force and all that), tips on this are welcome.  

3. Yes that sounds like a good idea since ore is the densest resource in stock game. Also you can pretty much "fly" under water to control your submarine so use some control surfaces.

4. The only reasonable alternative for precision landing is really a rocketplane like solution so you can actually fly it where you want. You can also attach an ISRU so you can use all the fuel to fly to your preferred landing location and fill up the tanks once there. Then you probably want to decouple the ISRU and drills before the takeoff to shave off some weight... And you dont want to ascent like a plane, only to land like one. So you should pull the nose up immediately and then just decouple the wings too since they are just excess mass and drag during the ascent.

EDIT: Also if you dont already use a mod called Hyperedit I highly recommend you to download it so you can teleport your ships(submarine and the ascent/descent vehicle) to Eve for testing before the actual mission...

Edited January 17, 2017 by tseitsei89

[Benjamin Kerman]

This thread has a large number of -30 ton Eve assent vehicles. 

You will need a mothership in orbit to take Jeb back to Kerbin, but I think that he will be impressed that such a small vehicle can make it into orbit over such a high gravity body. 

[Birdco_Space]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 11:40 AM, xendelaar said:

@Birdco_SpaceYou got your 6 year old to get interested in KSP? That's amazing?  I'm not even able to get my own friends enthusiastic about the greatest game ever created.. so i didn't ever bother to show the game to my little nephew (also 6).

Next time he visits, i will to teach him the kerbal way.

Do you have any tips getting him enthusiastic?  He loves games like minecraft (although he's not really that good at it yet)

Started a thread on General discussions to talk about this subject.

 

To everyone else, Thank you for the advice.  gonna experiment some with my son this weekend for the precision landing and recovery. 

[Sharpy]

Instead of struggling for a precise landing, make an airplane for Eve to fly wherever you want. Stock electic prop work just fine although they are hard to make and prone to explode spontaneously. Nuclear jet from Mk2 expansion works GREAT, and needs no fuel. Airships/balloons/blimps work great too, although they are more than tricky to land.

Still, my recommendation would be a small MK2 airplane with the nuclear jet and enough cargo capacity to carry everything you wish between the submarine and the mountain top which would be best for the ascent vehicle (hard to pinpoint, but easiest on the engines). MK2 expansion also adds some very fancy parts that I'm sure your 6yo will love (a converter from MK2 horizontal to MK2 vertical, two MK2 tricoupler (3xMk1 and 1xMk1+2xMk0), VTOL engines, nose cone cargo bay, and many more.

[xendelaar]

31 minutes ago, Birdco_Space said:

Started a thread on General discussions to talk about this subject.

 

To everyone else, Thank you for the advice.  gonna experiment some with my son this weekend for the precision landing and recovery. 

@Birdco_SpaceThanks for opening a new thread on this matter. I read your advice and i will try to apply several tips you gave. i think tthey will work. Maybe I'll add a cool story where we have to save stranded bob from the mun or something

I wonder if other people have any other successful "indoctrination methods ".  for both young and old people.

Now i just have to find a way to convince my adult friends to join the kerbal hype train... 

First world problems ftw!

Have a great day

[Spricigo]

Quote

I wonder if other people have any other successful "indoctrination methods ".  for both young and old people.

With my 4yo its just a matter of letting her watch me playing and suggesting  that daddy want help with the rockets.

[Birdco_Space]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 9:10 PM, Spricigo said:

With my 4yo its just a matter of letting her watch me playing and suggesting  that daddy want help with the rockets.

Considering that I've been playing since just prior to .90, I've had a little bit of that as well with my children.