[1.8.x] Kerbal Foundries -- Continued - Tracks, Wheels, and Gear

[wowbagger]

I'm getting a lot of broken wheels due to stress lately. They are breaking on lauching or on maneuvers, inside some fairings.

I guess they are being overwhelmed because the space is tight and the vibrations can be intense. But I was wondering: is there a hacky cfg file that I can edit, making the specific model (the medium sized, resembling the Curiosity) more resistant?

Thanks in advance!

[0111narwhalz]

3 hours ago, wowbagger said:

I'm getting a lot of broken wheels due to stress lately. They are breaking on lauching or on maneuvers, inside some fairings.

I guess they are being overwhelmed because the space is tight and the vibrations can be intense. But I was wondering: is there a hacky cfg file that I can edit, making the specific model (the medium sized, resembling the Curiosity) more resistant?

Thanks in advance!

I presume you've already made sure that the vessel mass is significantly less than the wheel load capacity.

The first thing you'll want to do is turn down your dampers. Excessive damping is, in my experience, the primary cause of violent oscillations. Don't just throw it to minimum, of course, or you'll have oscillations of a different sort.

If that's not enough, you'll have to either scale the wheel or increase its capacity. I get the impression that your application wouldn't take too kindly to scaling (if it's tight already), so you'll have to edit the cfg. You're looking for the KSPWheelBase module, and the value loadRating.

If that doesn't solve the problem but instead introduces more, I suggest that you replace your fairing with a fairing hangar from allista's Hangar mod.

[Shadowmage]

3 hours ago, wowbagger said:

I'm getting a lot of broken wheels due to stress lately. They are breaking on lauching or on maneuvers, inside some fairings.

I guess they are being overwhelmed because the space is tight and the vibrations can be intense. But I was wondering: is there a hacky cfg file that I can edit, making the specific model (the medium sized, resembling the Curiosity) more resistant?

Thanks in advance!

Look at the in-game difficulty settings menu for KSPWheel.  Move the damage related sliders to the left to disable wheel damage.  (or change the maxLoad specified in the config files -- that line determines the max load at scale=1)

I would look as to -why- the wheels are getting damaged though.  Sounds like they are either contacting stuff on the craft itself (not good design; wheels need lots of room), or could be a previously unreported bug.  Pics might help a ton to tell what is going on.

[wowbagger]

On 31/10/2017 at 11:51 AM, 0111narwhalz said:

I presume you've already made sure that the vessel mass is significantly less than the wheel load capacity.

The first thing you'll want to do is turn down your dampers. Excessive damping is, in my experience, the primary cause of violent oscillations. Don't just throw it to minimum, of course, or you'll have oscillations of a different sort.

If that's not enough, you'll have to either scale the wheel or increase its capacity. I get the impression that your application wouldn't take too kindly to scaling (if it's tight already), so you'll have to edit the cfg. You're looking for the KSPWheelBase module, and the value loadRating.

If that doesn't solve the problem but instead introduces more, I suggest that you replace your fairing with a fairing hangar from allista's Hangar mod.

 

On 31/10/2017 at 12:17 PM, Shadowmage said:

Look at the in-game difficulty settings menu for KSPWheel.  Move the damage related sliders to the left to disable wheel damage.  (or change the maxLoad specified in the config files -- that line determines the max load at scale=1)

I would look as to -why- the wheels are getting damaged though.  Sounds like they are either contacting stuff on the craft itself (not good design; wheels need lots of room), or could be a previously unreported bug.  Pics might help a ton to tell what is going on.

Thanks!

It started to bug me when I changed to some 7m fairings and still could see wheels being broken.

I don't have any pretension that my design is ideal. What Shadowmage said got me thinking and I think that the main issue was a decoupler touching the middle wheels (the wheels are in 0.75 scale, so I didn't check the weight). In the end, I just changed the load scale on the options and everything is fine now.

I've upload some pics of my design:

https://imgur.com/a/peqad

[Shadowmage]

@wowbagger

One thing I noticed from the pic you posted, is that the wheels appear to be resting on the fairing base while in the editor (or very close to it).  In the editor wheels are shown at 50% compression -- so when you launch it, they will immediately start trying to exert forces on the fairing base.

I bet if you were to add some additional clearance between the wheels and whatever is underneath them that the breakage/damage problems would go away.  (wheels should not be positioned in such a way as to contact any other parts of the same vessel, because unlike stock wheels, KF wheels -will- try to push on other parts of the same craft, which can cause all sorts of oddities and phantom forces; this has been intentionally left in place as a 'feature' as there were a couple craft designs (ab)using it)

(although, as both the fairing base and the wheel should be traveling at very close to the same velocity... it really shouldn't be causing wheel breakage -- if you can come up with a KF+stock craft file that exhibits the problem, please submit an issue ticket and attach the .craft file so that I might finally debug and possibly solve this problem)

Glad you found a solution that works for you though

[0111narwhalz]

38 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

this has been intentionally left in place as a 'feature' as there were a couple craft designs (ab)using it)

Thank you again for this, by the way. 

[wowbagger]

50 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

@wowbagger

One thing I noticed from the pic you posted, is that the wheels appear to be resting on the fairing base while in the editor (or very close to it).  In the editor wheels are shown at 50% compression -- so when you launch it, they will immediately start trying to exert forces on the fairing base.

I bet if you were to add some additional clearance between the wheels and whatever is underneath them that the breakage/damage problems would go away.  (wheels should not be positioned in such a way as to contact any other parts of the same vessel, because unlike stock wheels, KF wheels -will- try to push on other parts of the same craft, which can cause all sorts of oddities and phantom forces; this has been intentionally left in place as a 'feature' as there were a couple craft designs (ab)using it)

(although, as both the fairing base and the wheel should be traveling at very close to the same velocity... it really shouldn't be causing wheel breakage -- if you can come up with a KF+stock craft file that exhibits the problem, please submit an issue ticket and attach the .craft file so that I might finally debug and possibly solve this problem)

Glad you found a solution that works for you though

Actually, the wheels are floating freely. The only contact was (I've changed somethings) between the middle pair and a decoupler underneath the rover. But I had breakage happening from the other pairs as well, which never had anything close to them.

The "floor" isn't the fairing base, it's a procedural generated structural bit (Procedural Parts mod). It works as a floor for the rover when it's landed properly and serves as a sturdy mounting point for heat shields and whatnot.

I'll try to recreate this issue with standard parts and I'll be glad to help if it turns out to be reproducible.

[EnderKid2]

I think that we need some stubby adjustable landing gear, as the current ones seem a little too long for some applications. A landing gear set that ranges from the leg length of the nose gear on the C-130 to the current length would be nice.

[V8jester]

On November 4, 2017 at 12:20 AM, EnderKid2 said:

I think that we need some stubby adjustable landing gear, as the current ones seem a little too long for some applications. A landing gear set that ranges from the leg length of the nose gear on the C-130 to the current length would be nice.

As a suggestion, I used the offset tool in the SPH to push all the gear up inside the plane on my AC-130 build. The gear will still deploy and function if only a minumum of the wheel is protruding from the craft.

[StereotypicalBrit]

51 minutes ago, V8jester said:

As a suggestion, I used the offset tool in the SPH to push all the gear up inside the plane on my AC-130 build. The gear will still deploy and function if only a minumum of the wheel is protruding from the craft.

The new version of Airplane Plus has the full set of Hercules landing gear (front and back). They look brilliant and work like a charm.

 

[Citizen247]

Is it possible to replace stock wheel modules with KSP Wheel? The stock wheels, for me, seem to act like they're constantly on ice, but Kerbal Foundry wheels are fine. I was wondering if it's possible to write an MM config to convert the stock gear to KSP Wheel to see if that stops planes sliding around like a drunk at an ice rink.

[flart]

EC consumption for wheels not shows up at VAB, and units would be helpful.

So

max speed: 65
max load: 4

changes to

max EC: xx/s
max load: 4 t
max speed: 65 m/s

 

[Shadowmage]

On 11/11/2017 at 7:06 AM, Citizen247 said:

Is it possible to replace stock wheel modules with KSP Wheel? The stock wheels, for me, seem to act like they're constantly on ice, but Kerbal Foundry wheels are fine. I was wondering if it's possible to write an MM config to convert the stock gear to KSP Wheel to see if that stops planes sliding around like a drunk at an ice rink.

https://github.com/shadowmage45/KSPWheel/tree/dev/GameDataDisabled/Patches/Stock

Not maintained, or fully functional.  But might be a place for you to start.

 

6 hours ago, flart said:

EC consumption for wheels not shows up at VAB, and units would be helpful.

So

max speed: 65
max load: 4

changes to

max EC: xx/s
max load: 4 t
max speed: 65 m/s

 

Displaying the max EC is not that simple; but if you would like to file all of that as a github issue / feature request, I'll see what I can do (file it under the KSPWheel repository: https://github.com/shadowmage45/KSPWheel/issues )

[Robos78]

Having downloaded this myself, I can say it is a 10/10 mod. Love the skis.

 

Th, lads

[Shadowmage]

5 minutes ago, Robos78 said:

Having downloaded this myself, I can say it is a 10/10 mod. Love the skis.

 

Th, lads

Thanks, and welcome to the forums

(known issue that the skis' are slighly overweight, and could probably be put on a diet... but they do -work-)

[Robos78]

8 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Thanks, and welcome to the forums

(known issue that the skis' are slighly overweight, and could probably be put on a diet... but they do -work-)

Wait what do you mean by "overweight"? Work fine for small snowmobiles.

I really love the mod, and I have one suggestion. More hydraulic leg lengths. Is that possible?

 

Edit: I realize that there is a resize option, but that is the entire leg. All I would like is the actual hydraulic leg to be longer.

Thanks lad

Edited November 17, 2017 by Robos78
Text wrong

[TiktaalikDreaming]

20 hours ago, Robos78 said:

Wait what do you mean by "overweight"? Work fine for small snowmobiles.

I really love the mod, and I have one suggestion. More hydraulic leg lengths. Is that possible?

 

Edit: I realize that there is a resize option, but that is the entire leg. All I would like is the actual hydraulic leg to be longer.

Thanks lad

Which of the legs? And if it was to have an extra segment that telescoped, would that be enough? 

[Shadowmage]

On 11/17/2017 at 3:43 PM, Robos78 said:

All I would like is the actual hydraulic leg to be longer.

Longer?  Seriously?

Those legs are already too long for me to actually use them effectively on any of my craft designs.  And you want them to be longer still?  I gotta see some pics of this craft...

On 11/17/2017 at 3:43 PM, Robos78 said:

Wait what do you mean by "overweight"? Work fine for small snowmobiles.

Ehh, someone reported that they have too much mass for their function.  I've never used them personally (aside from testing them to make sure they were functional), so have no reference as to what would be appropriate.

[Shadowmage]

On 11/18/2017 at 12:39 PM, TiktaalikDreaming said:

And if it was to have an extra segment that telescoped, would that be enough?

I've been giving some thought on adding a module (UserControlledDeploy or something), that adds a slider that would allow for explicit control over at least one of the pistons on leg deployment.  A bit like how I set up the optional angled-deployment on one of the hydralic legs.... but less buggy as I wouldn't be using stock modules.  Ideally, it could allow for entirely user-driven deployment animations, but at least it can allow for some fine-tuning and adjustment of deployment lengths and/or angles.

 

Yes, things have been a bit slow over here in KF land this summer/fall, but that's not entirely bad.  The mod seems to be in a quite stable and usable state.  Won't stay that way forever though (the quiet part; hopefully the stable stays around), as I intend on doing a bit of KF work over this winter. 

First up is going to be the 'KF-stock' patches, that apply KSPWheel to all of the stock parts that need it (wheels, legs, gear).  Actually working on cleaning this up now, and might have a testing version available in the next day or three.

Next up will likely be a PBR-conversion/expansion patch to use the PBR shaders from TexturesUnlimited (will be an optional secondary download).  Could include some interesting features, such as part-recoloring/tinting, texture-switching, but the real driving purpose is to get those sweet metallic reflections.  Estimated start date is probably 2-3 weeks out.

After that -- maybe more landing legs?  Something slightly less industrial and more lunar-lander styled.

[Robos78]

On 11/18/2017 at 7:39 PM, TiktaalikDreaming said:

Which of the legs? And if it was to have an extra segment that telescoped, would that be enough? 

So, it's the leg with the extra length on the side. That help?

[Hs.Panda]

needing some assistance if possible, i checked the wiki and this thread with no luck (or possibly a lack of understanding?)

i'm trying to use the various wheels/tracks that came with the mod, they show up in the assembly on both the vab and sph, and can be attached to the vehicle, but then...nothing? it seems like they lack any type of control and the game is picking them up as just objects/structure instead of working parts? i'm not sure if i'm just being stupid and not using the proper controls? (i assume they use the normal rover controls? forward/back left/right?) or if there is something special i need to do after downloading and inserting the mod into my game data? i noticed a lot of talk about the editor and vehicle collision and there is supposed to be a menu to edit the parts somewhere? but i'm not really understanding the snippets of info i found while reading thru this thread

[Shadowmage]

9 minutes ago, Hs.Panda said:

needing some assistance if possible, i checked the wiki and this thread with no luck (or possibly a lack of understanding?)

i'm trying to use the various wheels/tracks that came with the mod, they show up in the assembly on both the vab and sph, and can be attached to the vehicle, but then...nothing? it seems like they lack any type of control and the game is picking them up as just objects/structure instead of working parts? i'm not sure if i'm just being stupid and not using the proper controls? (i assume they use the normal rover controls? forward/back left/right?) or if there is something special i need to do after downloading and inserting the mod into my game data? i noticed a lot of talk about the editor and vehicle collision and there is supposed to be a menu to edit the parts somewhere? but i'm not really understanding the snippets of info i found while reading thru this thread

It sounds like you may have either installed the older legacy version of KerbalFoundries, did not install the current KSPWheel dependency, or are using an unsupported version of KSP.

You will need to be on KSP 1.3.1, and you should have both a 'KerbalFoundries' and a 'KSPWheel' folder inside of your GameData folder.  The latest release, that contains both, can be found at: https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/releases/tag/2.1.2.11

Please let me know if that does not clear it up for you.  If you are still on KSP 1.3.0, I can link an older release that should still work.  If none of those are the problem, it'll likely be time for log-files and other debugging fun.

[Hs.Panda]

9 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

It sounds like you may have either installed the older legacy version of KerbalFoundries, did not install the current KSPWheel dependency, or are using an unsupported version of KSP.

You will need to be on KSP 1.3.1, and you should have both a 'KerbalFoundries' and a 'KSPWheel' folder inside of your GameData folder.  The latest release, that contains both, can be found at: https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/releases/tag/2.1.2.11

Please let me know if that does not clear it up for you.  If you are still on KSP 1.3.0, I can link an older release that should still work.  If none of those are the problem, it'll likely be time for log-files and other debugging fun.

that worked! thank you was using the older version from page 1...opps...

Edited November 29, 2017 by Hs.Panda

[Deconda]

Does anybody know which download is for KSP Version 1.3?

[Shadowmage]

54 minutes ago, Deconda said:

Does anybody know which download is for KSP Version 1.3?

Link -> https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/releases/tag/2.0.2.10

Should work for KSP 1.3.0, and is otherwise identical to the 1.3.1 version.